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Should survivors have more stuff to work with in a chase?
Right now survivors have only 2 things to work with in chases (pallets and windows). I think they are great tools, but it feels like there is something missing. We need to have something more to work with, so chases don't become at one point, boring. I myself don't have a clue what could be missing, but if you guys could help me out here and figure out what's missing, feel free to tell me your ideas and we'll have a great discussion!
Comments
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Nah. I feel like great survivors can draw out chases and the game already goes by quickly. There's no need to give survivors a chance to extend chases even longer.
But if anything were to be added, I wish there was a way to cuck PH. He has 0 interacction with survivors, as he can just hold his power until the survivor is caught in animation or can be m1'ed.
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I feel like crows are a big helper when a survivor is trying to break line of sight and hide behind a rock, so I don't see a problem in having other kind of animals that could find a purpose in chases. Or what if survivors could fall if they somehow stepped on a rock/thing. I know my suggestions are kinda off-topic, but maybe survivors could find a way to play around these mechanics...
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Horror movie cliché : every minute within a chase you trigger a skillcheck missing it cause you to trip and fell temporarily putting you in the dying state for 5 seconds.
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I totally feel you, maybe you could increase the gen speeds so there could be a possible new mechanic for chases? And yes PH should have a counterplay.
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There should be cylinders placed randomly around the map that survivors can knock down to release gas inside. The cold gas inside will slow killer's movement speed by a bit if they try to pass through it and as long as they stay in front of it. Cylinder becomes empty after like 7-10 seconds and it becomes unusable
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Well, not quite. Pyramid Head runs slower (5%, not much but it still buys you time) while holding his power, and absolutely cannot hold it indefinitely if he's moving. If he's not moving, he's not chasing.
Not saying he's perfectly balanced or anything like that, just that this is not an accurate representation of his power.
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Those are two passive things, they also have perks and items.
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I know he has drawbacks. But i feel like his chase is just so oppressive that it is anti-fun and uninteractive. It's kind of like Spirit or Freddy. When you get into a chase with them, YOU KNOW you will die in a couple seconds and not have much say in that unless the killer massively ######### up. It's just really unfun to play against. Whereas other killers give you a lot more to work with and there is a give-and-take with the mistakes made on both sides.
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Pyramid head has a lot of counters. It all depends on how far he is from you. You don't loop him normally like other killers. Double back and drop pallet, see what his range is and see if you can make the vault. Even if his PoTD has sufficient range to hit you, it takes time because it's not hitscan. You can dodge even after vaulting. Holding W is a strong counter. He has a lot of counterplay, its just difficult to pull off but it definitely doesn't rely on PH missing because he has to predict his shots a lot of the time. Definitely not strong in any way
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Wow that would definitely be very interesting, very unique as well. I don't know either how it would work, but you could probably get it to work in a way or so.
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I can name a few thing you got to work with in a chase just from top of my head, you have stuff like Dead Hard, Spine Chill, Resilience, Lithe, Balanced Landing, Quick and Quiet. I don't feel like its a good idea to add any more obstacles as that's what you are refering to because if you are at least a decent survivor your don't need anything more then pallets and windows coupled with perks I mentioned above. Survivors are strong as is if you add more defence tools it would just become downright stupid.
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Maybe you feel this way. But I feel like PH is a very anti-fun, non-interactive killer when it comes to chases. The biggest counterplay he has is gen-rushing because of his chase power. It's the same with Spirit or Freddy. If they see you/find you, you will be dead quickly. The only time you won't is when the killer sucks and messes up. Otherwise, there is not much you can do. But yes, there is still things you CAN do...but it just always feels like a gamble that is heavily favored towards the killer.
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Not sure how well that would work in mid-chase, I am a bit skeptical about it. But it sure sounds pretty fun to release a gas to slow the killer down. RIP Huntress haha
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I'm still relatively new, but I find accurately landing shots on survivors who aren't animation-locked is quite difficult, there's a LOT of telegraphing in his M2, and the aiming is really slow. Plus you can still dodge after the attack has gone off. On top of that, it only "lands" on what appears to be the first frame or maybe first few frames when each segment of the attack first appears, so you can immediately step into it after it has been activated without reprisal.
Of course, I can also hit people through walls on occasion if I predict their movement and they're not expecting it (or if I'm patrolling gens and one's behind a wall and has some cocky survivors) so I'm not exactly complaining. I'm still too new to accurately determine his actual power compared to other killers in general, though.
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I like people that argue eachother and make an interesting discussion but I feel like you guys are going slightly off-topic. I'm just saying that because the OP might feel bad because he asked for chase additions and you guys are arguing whether PH power has counterplays or not. Just saying...
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You don't have to make the perks you are naming to work with the new obstacle as you said. But something unique imo would spice the game up a notch. You could increase the gen speeds if it's like that.
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True lmao. My point is, I don't think there needs to be anything added. At most, I think it would be fun to have different renditions of jungle gyms in newer maps. But if anything was to be added, it would be a structure that completely blocks PH's ranged attack. That way a survivor can safely loop and pull down the structure without getting killed during the animation lock-up.
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Just dropping in ideas lol. I came up with it not more than 5 minutes ago. All we need to do is drop in ideas and it might be a spark to the devs.
Possible. I've gone against a lot of Pyramid heads and I usually drop jungle gym pallets and God pallets early to lock them in and gain massive distance. There is no such thing as wasting pallets. It all comes down to how well you make it count.
But then counterplay against deathslinger is a different issue. He's tougher and much more annoying to counterplay.
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I was sitting here and wondered if I would ask you guys to stop talking about PH or not haha
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That's fair. I personally would like more consumable items in the map that you can't bring with you, but can pick up and use separately from your "real" item. Maybe a rock you can chuck as a distraction (I think this is a perk or something?) or climb-able ladders? It's hard, because each new thing has the potential to just annoy killers more, while the killer doesn't really benefit. I think more new interactions in the map should require some actual work from survivors. So maybe rather than it just being a thing you hit in a chase, maybe the survivor has to waste time setting up a trap ahead of time, which cuts into objective time and still requires you to lead the killer to it and the killer to actually fall for it.
I would absolutely like more map interactions added, but always with counterplay so it's fun for both sides, and makes the game more strategically enjoyable, rather than just an easy to use stun or other annoyance.
To be honest, and maybe this is getting off-topic again, I'd also appreciate more goals in the early game. One potentially being instead of starting with your item in your hand, maybe it spawned in a locker at a random point in the map. It would be generally pretty far away from you, but also highlighted white so you always knew how to get it. If you never take it out of the locker, you don't lose it, so it's another part of risk-reward. If you do take it out, you can't put it back, so you either escape with it or lose it. Maybe only have keys spawn with you so the killer knows ahead of time? I dunno.
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I feel that the idea is very unique and I like it, continue with the ideas :)
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I would rather have a second objective for survivors to spice up the game than something new for chases which would waste even more of killers time so survivors can rush the gens that would just make thing worse rather than better.
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Yes: 100%
Survivors need a major update to stuff they can do on the map but more interactables on the maps would be a boon to survivors and killers. It would be a boon to killers because it means we can dillute pallets, not with the intent to nerf survivors but to actually add variety and spice to chases besides "stun and stop" method which dramatically halts and slows down the flow and thrill for both sides. The fact stun and stopping are the two big things in play is why loops are meta.
Survivors need more tools, more offerings and more hiding places and I say this as a killer main all the way through but I would be actually happy to see survivors get more chase tools that do things besides just either stun or put a big block in my way. Things like doors that killers can break through for a very small slow down-and breakingl ine of sight for jukes- or sheets that can obscure a killers vision for a fraction of a second.
There are alot of enviromental stuff that survivors could trigger or activate that would be a hinderance to the killer and not them simply because of how their FOVs work for each side.
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Absolutely not. Watch a good runner with Windows of Opp and you will witness greatness.
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That's why I suggested increasing gen speeds.
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You don't have to hve Windows of Opportunity in order to be a good runner lol.
100% agree. More stuff to interact with makes the matches more thrilling and exciting.
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Making the most boring part of the survivor game take a longer time is not a solution either. Just make a second objective that brings something that surivovrs can have fun with and prolong the match at the same time and it would be nice.
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"You don't have to hve Windows of Opportunity in order to be a good runner lol."
I did not say that. But if you see a good runner with it, youll know the difference. Most runners do not utilize everything they could, asking for more shows theyve never encountered what I am referring to.
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Too many people responded with "survs too op already".
Well, I'd be all for adding something because if you think a lil bit, you can assume that obviously loops should be adjusted to fit the new stuff, not just add on top of what we have, giving survivors more strength. It could be just to make chases more interactive and fresh.
I don't have any ideas unfortunately but the lack of ideas posted made me saddd
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Buckets of paint to throw at the killer, bags of marbles you can throw down to make the killer slip under certain conditions, maybe some kind of exposed wiring you can turn on to zap the killer. etc.
I wouldn't mind more interactables if this meant less pallets. You'd have the same amount of tools, just different types.
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I'd like to see something like closeable doors, which Survivors can slam in a Killer's face but the Killer can break the door down and it can't be used again.
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Then bring back Space Billy, and Rocket Hag!
i was so sad when these got patched out, even if I do understand why.
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thats literally what a pallet is though?
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Well, you can't exactly slide over a door... 😛
I was just thinking of it being a nice thematic addition, if not exactly useful or better than anything else, just something neat!
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I'd love to see something that wasn't just running around an item and looping it for a whole minute before throwing the pallet, it gets pretty mind-numbing for survivors and boring to play as/against.
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good point, they have introduced destructable doors so maybe in the future.
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What was rocket hag
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That's actually really cool, I'd want that added to the game.
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Only worked on Haddonfield because you needed a second story window and no roof/ceiling so you could fly.
Basically the Hag would climb out the second story window and put a trap exactly where she landed. You had to be using the add-on that makes her phantasms have collision.
Next a survivor would slow vault out that same second story window and as they fell the trap would trigger. If the trick worked the hitbox of the phantasm would launch the survivor up so high into the sky they would basically vanish. As survivors fell they could even land on top of most house roofs.
Pretty sure you can still find videos online.
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Running around in circles and then throwing a wooden pallet down does seem kind of simplistic, and survivors call it boring when a killer ignores this pattern. I wish there were a little more acton game style interaction available, or at least horror sequences that can actually scare you. It feels weird to call this a horror game. It's like an action chase game with only one action available. It's still fun, though.
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I totally agree, we need more horror in the game, especielly for chases!
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You can't have a online game become scary. Everything scary kinda fade out once you play it for more than 20 hours.
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And if you play FNAT for more than 20 hours it's the same. Even if YOU won't get scared, others can and most likely will.
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Survivors already have something else to work with, it's called LoS breakers. See, the Devs in their infinite wisdom though it fair to make chase music override survivors footsteps but not have it mask the killers sounds. So now you can break LoS and run directly away from the loop you are at while the killer mindgames themselves. Which, while funny the first time, is honestly extremely unfair when you realise that it takes literally zero skill and cannot be accounted for by the killer, given how easy it is to break LoS. It's essentially a no-mindgame mindgame, similar to Spirit.
Edit: Naturally, it is also my preferred tactic because I like to highlight to my opponents just how broken it is. I almost never get caught out doing it.
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Dunno, man. Its 4th year. To me the gameplay is ok.
My only complaint is that the end game scoreboard is absolutely meaningless and give no motivation to continue to play the game. Once you learn how to farm, you forget about it. It doesnt matter how long a survivor was chased, how many gens anyone did, how many totems anyone broke, how many safe unhooks someone has or how many times you healed your teammates. You cant compete with other survivors, only escapes are shown. This is mind-numbingly boring.
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I don't know about more, but if there were more options and fewer pallets and windows to compensate, I wouldn't mind so much.
That said, though, I never really felt like I needed more things to mix up my chases. I sorta' like the simplicity of it; you have pallets and windows. How well you do is less about how many options you have and more about how well you use what you've got. To give an example:
- A bad player will run from pallet to pallet and drop them the second the killer gets close.
- An alright player will run to a pallet and loop it before dropping it.
- A good player will loop that pallet and use a nearby window to save it as long as possible.
- A great player will link together multiple tiles to create even stronger loops and rarely use pallets.
Four completely different playstyles, all with the same two tools. Beyond that, I use perks like Head On or Lithe + Dance With Me to mix things up.
That said though, what sort of things did you have in mind?
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Thanks for your reply, it means a lot. But if you had one idea for a new tool what would it be?
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We could have things to slide under, kinda like reverse windows. I know this was suggested for ages and during the old streams you guys just said "maybe".
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Not really, with the maps being as broken as they are now.
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