Since hatches exist, why NOED is not basekit Killer power?
I mean, hatch gives second chances for survivors who play poorly... Why shouldn't killers get a second chance too?
It's a matter of fact, hatch is a dumb design that should not exist. Forcing you to slug the third player or resort to other lame #########.
Bonus: with Plunderer's Instinct you can easily find a key every trial you search all chests on.
Comments
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Noed used to not be a hex, it was way more broken then
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Meanwhile: nothing wrong with hatch and giving survivors billion second chances.
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lol what?
That's not even comparable. NOED gives a speedboost to a killer who is already by default, faster than the survivor. And that's not taking into account Cloaked Wraith, Phasing Spirit, Chainsaw running Billy, or Blinking Nurse
Hatch is a killer favored mechanic unless the survivor already knows where it is. If both players are searching for it, the faster character (the Killer) has RNG in their favor.
That's not even including the fact that the survivor has to hide if the killer is near them so they don't get found. The killer just needs to circle the map with no fear
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If you rely on noed chances are you aren't the best killer anyway
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How the hell is hatch a killer favored mechanic when it literally gives survivors a win, someone explain to me please! 😂
So what if killer gets even more fast and et cetra, survivors get a huge advantage (free win) why can't killers also have it for playing poorly?!
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That's.... That's not the point of this discussion at all!
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Hatch has existed for a while, it's not a new change killers need to be compensated for.
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They should have never existed this is the point, just because they already exist does not mean compensation is not in order.
Am I the only one who finds whining survivors ironic? Especially about NOED when they have their hatches and adrenaline (and million second chance perks)?
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Then why else would you want Noed basekit? How bad do you have to be at a game to ask for a free down on anyone you come in contact with at a point when the trial is already lost for you? Noed is balanced as is, you either do the bones or pay the price at the end
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Still not what I am discussing.
Please take a minute to read the discussion and think about it.
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Not at all, doesn't mean killers deserve a perk for free.
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The hatch itself is a mechanic not designed to give an escape but to make it a race for both sides to find it first and simply help end the game quicker nothing else.
The egc was the only thing needed for the hatch to work as intended.
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You are.
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Or plot twist... Your not meant to 4k every game. Hatch is only broken when it comes to keys. You are not entitled to an easy 4k just as survivors are not entitled to escape. The hatch isnt going anywhere so get used to playing sweaty for the 4k or losing a kill.
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why noed = 4k every game?
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Your argument is invalid because it is not a "free win". You have to find it before the killer who is faster than you and have powers. If the killer finds it first, it's pretty much a loss because the gates are almost always on the same side of the map.
Then if you have Whispers on, that makes the search even easier.
Post edited by Mandy on5 -
I am reading it , you're saying the hatch is BS and noed should be built in to allow mistakes , I disagree with you because only a bad killer would want something like that, the killer can close the hatch and for it to spawn you have to be either destroying a team or getting destroyed to the point all the survivors are alive and all the gens are done in which case why would you deserve a instadown with no counter at the endgame?
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Noed doesnt lol. Noed may help you get kills but experienced killers dont need to rely on a hex perk. I myself (play both sides) only run noed on 1 killer. And for me even against redranks usually easily kill 2 to 3 (always let the 4th escape myself). Hatch sucks when a key is used but other then that its balanced as is current noed
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You see, the hatch mechanic doesn't exactly serve as a purpose to give the survivors a 2nd chance. Or at least that's not the impression I'm getting from what the devs have stated in the past.
It's a mechanic that's supposed to bring an end to the game and prevent situations where the last remaining survivor ends up hiding all game long. And I can definitely see that some kind of mechanic is necessary for these situations.
That said, the reality is that even though it may not be the true intention of the hatch, it does give the last remaining survivor(s) an extra chance. Personally I'm not a fan of these extra chance game mechanics because they're nothing more than a source of frustration. The hatch in particular because killers that want the 4k are going to slug until they find the other survivor to prevent them from escaping through the hatch. This again is just frustrating for the survivors...
I don't think killers should get a similar mechanic, I think the devs should look into changing the hatch mechanic so that endgame isn't such a pain for neither side, but I honestly wouldn't know how myself.
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How about we get rid of the gates completely. Keep the gennies. Add 3 hatches instead at random. And keys have to be found only in chests which only hold 3 keys randomly spawned (same amount of chests per usual) 1 survivor can be completely SOL. And the 3 can escape by luck one key per Hatch and it closes immediately. Killer's hearing and speed heightened. Only slightly. 🤔
What say you?
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How about this. Every person who complains about this has show they are stupid. If you know the ideal balance in the game it is 2 k or 3 k and in most horror movies there is always at least one survivor and if you compare that rule to what they want to be balanced in this game it seems to correlate and regardless it doesn't reward poor gameplay. If your team is all rank 20 against a rank 1 nurse and you're a rank 1 survivor, you don't deserve a loss for that. Or if you guys do generators it spawns. Hatch ONLY spawns for one and it gives the balance devs need. Plus killer has hatch priority and can shut it on the survivors faces and they can run ahead of survivors to get to it and plus they have to do generators for.it to spawn at any other time. Noed is strong as it is when it can snowball the whole game and especially of you hook by your totem. It shouldnt be base kit because that means that you could just run stbfl and at endgamr go around like a lawn mower and if they did that then there would be no balance.
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Since tunneling exists why not make DS basekit.
Since camping exists why not make BT basekit.
Since slugging exists why not make unbreakable basekit.
See where this leads
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...okay, do u actually believe that the hatch exists with the only purpose of giving survivors a 2nd chance? If u do, then think about it a little more plz ffs.
Hatch doesn’t exist only to give survivors a 2nd chance, but also to prevent holding the game hostage.
Like, imagine if the hatch didn’t exist. The most common situations where the hatch appears is the one where 3 survivors died and there’s 1 left, with gens still left to do. In this situation, do u actually think that this last survivor will try to do gens? The last survivor would either be an actual fair player and continue his objective (even tho he would 99% die) or he could just hide until he gets spotted just to make ur game last forever, or he could do in between. U guys need to start thinking a little bit more than just “the game is survivor sided” (even tho it is)
Hatch is a mechanic added so that the game isn’t prolonged until oblivion. And noed being base kit bc of hatch existing is just beyond stupid, hatch existence is doing a favor to both sides, for one it gives them a second chance and for the other one the relief that the game will actually end like it’s supposed to.
Also ure not forced to slug, if u really want the 4K sure, u do u, but 3k is already an absolute win.
(of course Im not considering keys cause they were not the situation u were talking about I presume)
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Cuz killer is immortal and can fail 99 times before exit gates are poowered, camp 1 guy to death and pull out Rancor to take 2nd free kill? Think about it.
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Since Killers have a M1 attack why Unbreakable isnt base kit? why shouldnt Survivors get to get up after being downed?.
Does the comparison sound silly? good.
On another note, Plunderer's Instinct gives a 14% chance of finding a Key, that includes green non functional key, since green keys are aproximadetely 1 of every 3 keys you find it leaves roughly a 10% chance of finding a working key, 1 in every 10 chests, add to that the guy with Plunderer has to search the chest and in Solo Queue people will search chests naturally thus eliminating more potential Keys. I wouldnt call it "easy" to find a key with Plunderers.
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Is NOED really so much a second chance perk? Supposedly the devs wanted (IDK about now, but a while ago they said this) 2 kills 2 escapes in an "ideal" game, meaning the generators should be getting powered.
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I lol.
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I know you're joking but the fact there are people out there who think all of those should be actual things makes me shake my head sometimes. The only one I kind of agree with that you didn't mention is solo players should have a kindred-ish effect base.
On topic, there was a time when the hatch didn't spawn when there was one survivor left and 2 gens hadn't been done. This leads to survivors just hiding which is why the hatch was changed around a bit. They could have it where when you're the last one alive EGC just starts but that leads to trophy problems as well as an basically impossible chance for the last person to ever get out.
In most cases the hatch isn't even a win for the survivors but a consolation prize. Whenever I get the hatch as the last survivor I don't think, "Oh yeah I showed that killer who's boss!" I think "Well at least I got some extra points." The only times I'm smug about a hatch escape is if the killer is playing like a jackass with hardcore camping/tunneling.
The thing is as well, if you really want a 4k that bad then just slug and spend the time finding the hatch if it has spawned and then look for the other person. You can guarantee the 4k the majority of times with only 2 left.
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Yes I totally agree.I dont even spend time looking for the hatch if I am the last 1 alive. I pick a direction and run
If I get it, lucky, if not, well I didn't really expect to anyway.
But I agree, I have never gotten the hatch and been like, "yeah, really showed that killer."
The hatch escape is not a win in my opinion.
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The devs may want it that way, but doubtful many killers do.
I want my 4k, however I will never run No Ones Even Dead yet. If you power the gates, good on you. At least I know I probably gave you a game.
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Since basic attacks exist, why do generators not play the Total Drama Island™ theme song upon completion?
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hatch is a killer favoured design LOL, you heard it here now folks. Wake me up when I can kill survivors by using the hatch.
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If no survivors are dead and the egc has started, a shrine needs to randomly spawn, and if the killer finds it before all survivors have left, one random survivor will die. After all, you're not supposed to get a 4 man escape every game...
It would also stop survivors from waiting at the exit or hook bombing at the last second.
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Not gonna lie, though the title said 'Hatchets' this entire time 🤣
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What does being able to kill someone with something have to do with the argument being presented? Nice straw man argument attempt.
Let me break it down even more since you seem to be misinterpreting something I'm saying (either purposefully or you're just dense)
Person A and Person B are both in a race to find the same thing.
Person A has a bike. Person B is walking. Who has the better chance of reaching the destination first?
Let's add to that.
Person A has a weapon in their hands and is actively trying to kill Person B. Person B still has to get to the thing before Person A but they also have to avoid person A and not die. Who has the better chance of reaching the destination first?
Nothing I'm saying is controversial or complicated. Basic math and common sense is why hatch spawn is inherently killer favored.
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Looking at the title, you may as well ask "Since NOED exists, went aren't keys a basekit Survivor item?"
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Slug and find hatch or the other person it isn't that hard.
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hatch shouldn't be a thing in the first place. You lost, your team is dead.
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The hatch is literally only there to help the game end, same with EGC.
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Why do hatches exist? Easy.. Because exit gates are RNG and can easily spawn right next to eachother, making it impossible for a survivor to escape even if his or her team didn't play poorly.
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Then what is your point? if the team is dead, hatch does nothing. If someone escapes through hatch, the team was not dead yet.
You simply contradict yourself.
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if their team didn't play poorly, they could just pressure both doors?? I've literally never encountered a situation where the killer can just defend both doors from a whole team, lol
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the survivor really doesn't even have to hide. Assuming they don't have noed, allowing the killer to slow themselves down with a hit gives you a big speed boost and a lot of time to find the hatch. Killers that are actually good will just follow you then cut you off when you get near the hatch.
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But they're being given the chance to escape for free. Closing the hatch doesn't guarantee the kill either, because the exit gates are never THAT close to each other. All the survivor has to do is wait for the killer to close the hatch, wait at a gate and start opening it as soon as the egc starts, and unless the killer goes straight there, the survivor escapes. That's why these endgame mechanics suck, because they're decided by coin flips and not at all by skill. Keys make it even easier because you can escape before the gens are even done, literally a shortcut around the objective. Removing keys means nothing if hatch stays, it's just one less second chance.
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Hatch in end game nets one escape after you've killed three, NOED could literally give you a 4K, they are hardly comparable.
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Lol with his reasoning after all gens are done the game should end, you've not killed everyone, you've lost :P
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It's hard talking to people who lack in basic logical thinking. The game is over once the survivors escaped or died, if 3 people are dead the last guy doesn't stand a chance to finish a gen on his own unless the killer is an absolute potato, that's why the hatch is there. Yet killers have no built in mechanic that is similar to the hatch, you ######### up as killer and it's over.
If the game was actually harsh on survivors hatch would still only spawn if enough gens are done and survivors who are doing nothing but hiding all game would be revealed with crows similar to identity V.
The hatch by design cannot be killersided, it's there so the last survivor still has a chance to escape, it was literally made so survivors could have their pitty win in case they got crushed. Without it he'd just die unless it's one of those rare situations where you're on the last gen and finishing it as your last teammate dies.
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Actually, hatch isn't some big survivor-sided mechanic, it's just RNG. If the survivor finds it first, it's a free escape. If the killer finds it first, it's a free kill. Neither are comparable to the atrocious second-chance meta or the idiocy that is NOED.
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Uh yeah, ask killer players if they want the hatch or if they'd give it up, then come again how the hatch is a free kill ROFL. Good luck to the survivor on finishing gens alone without a hatch, THAT would be basically a free kill.
The only reason why killerplayers would want the hatch to exist is because the game would be ######### dead without it.
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Actually most killers love that the hatch exist. You know why? Because if there was no hatch, the last survivor would literally just play hide and seek because they have no chance of winning. Why the hell would they attempt to do gens if there's 3 gens remaining and everyone is dead?
The hatch prevents a neverending match
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