Since hatches exist, why NOED is not basekit Killer power?
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Hello, I am a killer player. I would prefer hatch to be in tha game than not be. And it is an unfair mechanic for both sides.
Survivors usually have no way of escaping if the hatch is closed, since door spawns are terrible and patrolling them is easy. The killer doesn't even have to work for their kill, they just have to slap the survivor if they get too close to a door and give them a hold-W chase. Easiest kill in DBD.
You really need perspective.
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In identity V crows alert inactive survivors, also if the survivor would not be doing his objective (gens) then it would be considered holding the game hostage as 2 survivors already can do this and it's bannable.
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It's not an unfair mechanic for both sides, you as a killer literally have no reason to want a hatch ingame (fairness and empathy are not reasons)
KIllers already worked for the kill by killing the 3 other survivors, ######### are you talking about.
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DBD has the crows for inactive players also.....
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inactive in a sense that in Identity they HAVE to do gens or crows will come. In DbD you could literally hide forever without EVER doing the objective as long as you keep moving or crouching.
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Yes, but you also can go to a gen, wait till the killer leaves, repair for 20 seconds, and go to the next. the killer comes to the gen, searchs for you, kicks the gen and goes to the next, which you just left. The survivor can do gens for hours, as long as the killer kicks them, and still not being found.
Your idea solves nothing.
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What? Lmao.
Removing hatch serves to cause more issues than it "fixes", the only "issues" it has is ending a game early (with key, which will be reworked) or "preventing" killers from getting that precious 4K (boohoo big sad very empathetic).
The issue of hostage holding a game would be a far greater problem than the two current "issues" of ending matches early, or preventing 4Ks.
I think that's pretty basic logical thinking, no?
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Okay, so you literally just admitted you don't ean the game to be fair. Goodbye.
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So much this lol, his third grade students seem to have told him that I guess, it's that level of logic.
See entitled survivor mains? All the advantages and second chances they have yet let's nerf killers some more..
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So much this LOL! Seems his third grade students gave him the idea, it's that level of logic at best.
Entitled survivor mains man, all the advantages they got yet they still act toxic to the killer and demand more nerfs.. Survivor at this rate is casual easy mode for those who don't want any challenge at all yet still like they are accomplishing something with their lives.
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This, pretty much.
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Did you read my main post? No one said it's hard, it's just poor design that requires zero skill and is just boring and tedious.
There is zero skill in slugging third person, you realize that right?
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Exactly but the third grade teacher says it's killer favored, third grade logic indeed.
So many advantages those survivors have...
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full stop. you had a good head of steam but then said something like the hatch is killer favored.... like in what world? the hatch only rewards the survivor.
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Can Killers stop qqing about the hatch already?
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the hatch while annoying is necessary. after the game is 1v1 with 3 gens left it becomes a sad hide and seek chase. id rather have the hatch to kick off the end game collapse then playing merry go round with a survivor killer with 3 gens left
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######### thank you, why is it so hard to explain it to them?
They are so entitled man, all those advantages and all they have to do is hump a gen (m1) and loop for 90 seconds and still act toxic and want more nerfs..
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Thanks for having common sense.
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I don't think you read a single word he written.
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The EGC is a step forward for sure, does not mean the hatch is not a poor design.
There are better solutions to "end game quicker" without giving the bigger advantage to survivors, don't you agree?
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So, where's the killer-type hatch mechanic? Where's a killer's consolation prize in case he ######### up? All of the stuff that WOULD be a consolation Prize for Killers (Rancor without aura reading during match ofc, NOED maybe in a weaker form like a short bloodlust and 1hit till you hit 1 surv) is gated behind Perks.
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To be honest I said, the hatch needs to be here or the game would be even more toxic, it would just be nice if the killers got something similar to it.
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Agree. And since campers and tunnelers are so common, why DS and BT are not basekit too?
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Sure, I'd give weaker versions of DS and BT to survivors too, I'd even pack camraderie basekit too if the game were more balanced like for example killers not losing momentum during loops so they actually keep their 115% ms, no red stain during chase and all maps being way smaller so holding W doesn't become a new meta.
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The hatch isn't actually an advantage to survivors as its a 50/50 chance on who finds it first.
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Three dead survivors, one remaining get a free out of jail card.
Not an advantage to survivors, how so? It's like having penalty kicks when the teams are not at a draw, but one is losing, and then saying it's a 50/50 chance.
How about when 5 gens done AND 3+ survivors are alive, a killer randomly finds shrine to kill all survivors and win the game, but survivors can get to the shrine before him they get an escape (but of course killer will have same speed as survivors by then)? 50/50 chance right?
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Nothing wrong with having a solution to the problem of people hiding for an hour instead of doing gens alone.
Ftfy.
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Not at all. Especially since survivors can render it useless by getting the sweet bp they always complain about not earning enough of.
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EGC collapse begins once third survivor dead, there.
Billion solutions to solve that issue without giving the survivors a clear advantage (like always).
Also: 2 survivors can (and did to me, quite times) hide for an hour or even more if they want to. So survivors can still hold the game hostage because (surprise surprise) it's another aspect of which they have the control of.
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As I said somewhere else, 3rd dead egc is not a solution. It ends the game prematurely. Some of us, like me, will still try and do a gen if were last alive. Or mindgame if I'm going to hatch or waiting at a door.
If 3rd dead starts EGC, guess what, the only option is the gates. And the killer will go RIGHT TO THEM. You're not supposed to have a good chance of surviving a 1v1, but having any chance and options is a must. Because as killer, if I know the EGC starts on 3rd dead, it means I run bbq, and noed, maybe rancor, and only have to worry about 3k before the end of the 5 gens. Not 4. The 4th is free.
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I mean I think of NOED as training wheels, so I do understand that some people need those while learning to ride a bike. But there are much better perks that will help you have a better early and mid game.
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How is trying to do gens secure a chance of survival more than exit gates?! Do you play killer? Do you see the usual distance-delta between exit gates and how easily survivors can indeed escape even if one remains?
Also: if there should be a chance for last survivor after team obviously messed up, why is there no second chance for a killer once all gens are done?
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You obviously did not even read the topic and just is a NOED-phobic.
No one said NOED is needed or is a good (or bad perk), no one is even discussing NOED here.
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I read your initial post. Sounds like you've had rough games and need a 5th perk slot, but I wouldn't think getting NOED helps as much as controlling the earlier game. But there are killers and players who function differently.
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Nope. Read it again and again. We are here to discuss gameplay.
Stick to topic please.
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There's a lot of assuming happening. Let's try a different angle.
So many people complain about NOED. I'll be fair here and say if they added it as a part of the killer's kit that always happened, the game wouldn't change much at all for me. I make a habit of cleansing totems and generally don't hang around much at the end of the game. What would change for you?
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NOED, was just used as a form of example of advantage a killer could have in case he ######### up like hatches are there for survivors who play poorly. I used it as an example because I am well aware of NOED-phobics. Should have used a different example, here: a shrine that randomly kills all survivors can be found once all gens are done, and survivors (4 of them!!) can close it. Is that fair to you? No? That's what hatches essentially are.
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I've read the entire thread now. Anytime somebody brings up a valid point, you tell them they're wrong, off-topic, or don't understand. So take a moment, think back, and realize some people are actually trying to hear you and approach you with clarity and fairness. Saying people don't understand at this point is only a reflection of your choice to ignore others. Be respectful, please.
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You are discussing NOED in a topic about killers should have an advantage similar to survivors having a hatch for playing poorly. How is that not off-topic?! Like how can I make it any more clear, please help me.
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To be fair, the equivalent would randomly kill one survivor. That would actually be an interesting perk that I would never bring.
Though more can escape through the hatch (even all 4), it's a pretty lopsided game at that point at likely a SWF working against a killer who was having a rough time.
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Cool bait.
No.
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Maybe change the title of your topic then, as you bring up NOED there. 26 of the posts that follow before I even contribute also discuss NOED. It's the example you've made offered and defended. Again, I do think of NOED as training wheels (as I do of BBQ, Spine Chill and sometimes Self Care), in that these are perks I initially felt I needed to win. Later, I learned a bit more and started changing my builds to pay more attention to pressure and the state of the game.
That said, let me be one to say I think the game as it is now is Survivor-sided. I don't know that giving killers auto-NOED would change much except survivors would be more encouraged to do totems. Doing these would slow the game down a bit and be an inadvertent nerf to totems as a whole (if the survivors actually did them, barring Hallowed Ground).
In an earlier post, you mentioned that the EGC was a positive move, and that the hatch wasn't really the problem. Are there any other solutions you can think of? I genuinely wish Killers had a bit more in their corner, but I don't think NOED would do much.
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I kind of agree with NOED part, I did not think much of a counter-advantage so much to show how absurd hatch is and (in my opinion) how it should of have never existed.
My solution was as I stated, no need for advantage for either side but once third survivor dies, it's EGC time (no hatch at all). I think that's fair, can you think of any fair solutions?
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It's hard to think of an elegant solution without creating new perks or adding to base kits, admittedly. My goal would be Killers being a bit more scary, especially toward the end of the game. And as I side-note, I also think there need to be more totems in general...
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Why doesn’t this have more upvotes?
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Because it is off-topic and because it's funny saying that when you rely on unbreakable, DS, self care/inner strength, BT, etc. etc.
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Because the killer has an equal chance to find the hatch before the survivor. That is why it is 50/50.
Ask yourself honestly how many survivors do you actually lose too in this scenario?
You keep going to it being free escape instead of looking at it what it is. A way to end the game.
If you really think by saying this shrine idea of killing all survivors compared to one having a possibility of escaping is even remotely is the same or a good comparison I don't know what else to say.
Killing all 4 survivors should be hard. It's not meant to be the norm and only the best of the best should be able too.
Think about this. The more a 4k happens the more killers will be nerfed. Think outside the box instead of complaining about a mechanic where both sides have an equal chance.
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Well the shrine shouldn't kill all survivors then, just 1?
EGC triggers when third survivor dies is best way to, well, end the game. The hatch should not exist, it's just a free out-of-jail for survivors.
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Perky, I'm hearing you man, but if one survivor escaping through the hatch is worth deleting the hatch, realize you did win that game.
What if there was a perk that allowed the killer to lock the hatch during EGC but before it opens (1 survivor remains)?
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NOED > hatch.
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