Bubba is literally old Legion with instadowns.
Old Feral Frenzy:
-5.28 m/s movement speed
-6 second duration
-Vaults pallets without breaking them
-3 second fatigue no matter what
-15 second cooldown
-Takes 4 hits to down
-Legion was 110
New Bubba:
-5.29 m/s max movement speed
-2 second dash per charge, 6 seconds total
-Instantly shreds dropped pallets on contact
-Only incurs a lengthy fatigue if you bump into something
-4 second cooldown per charge, 12 seconds total
-Always instadowns
-Bubba is 115
With the exception of actually having to rev it, Bubba's new saw is literally just an all-around better version of old Feral Frenzy. You know, the thing that broke the game so hard that they had to gut the Killer as damage control?
And before anyone tries to tell me, "But Bubba can't fast vault windows so he's balanced!" There's this crazy little thing called Bamboozle that prevents the Survivors from using the window entirely. I suggest you try it.
Seriously, when at a loop against a Bubba with Bamboozle, you have two options: Go down, or let him chainsaw the pallet and then go down. It's absolutely insane. He is old Legion on steroids and I don't understand how people don't realize this.
Comments
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Maybe your positioning just needs a little work..right corners and obstacles can also stop his saw..also legion never broke the game..he was never strong even then..he was just..not really part of the game
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Still weak to the same structures as Old Bubba.
Old Legion wasnt even gamebreaking. All they needed was to change Deep Wounds into its current state, nerf Franks Mixtape, and Old Legion would be fine in the game.
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Damn, Bubba can bump into things? Huh, I should try it.
Oh, no, he walked around it! Guess I'll just die!
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See above.
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Lol he can't turn as sharp because if he does the large saw hitbox will hot the obstacle..you can also try dodging the saw during the wind up,it'll get you some free distance..or you can just cycle between windows..then his saw is useless altogether
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Ahem
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well bubba can't snowball down, so
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- It’s not that hard to just walk around it.
- If a Bubba gets juked while he’s still revving, he deserves to uninstall.
- You do realize that Bubba moves at 5.29 meters per second for 6 seconds, right? If you’re at a TL wall or a place where Bamboozle can only shut down one window, he can just, you know... mindgame it better than any 115 M1 Killer ever could.
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I thought the problem with Old Legion was that no cooldown/penalty on swinging + old Deep Wounds + moonwalking to avoid triggering a chase meant that the Killer could just down Survivors with zero counterplay (even if it was inefficient).
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For the lockers: Once he leaves his rev, then what? Even if he bumps into it, you can’t leave until his tantrum is done. You have to jump out, directly into him after he’s off cooldown.
For the windows:
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Old Legion also completely ignored any defenses Survivors had. Bubba with Bamboozle does that ten times over, and instadowns on top of it.
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But that wasn't the problem with Old Legion. The problem was that the only way to really do good with him was the moonwalking strat, which had zero counterplay.
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Were you around when old Legion was a thing? Let me tell you, a Legion in Feral Frenzy was GAURANTEED a hit. Literally GAURANTEED. There was NOTHING you could do to stop him. Moonwalking was just icing on the cake to Frenzy spam. Why do you think Frank’s Mixtape was meta on him?
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Lockers: After he bumps into something he loses all charges so he can't immediately rev up again
Windows: When he vaults a window leave to another loop
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Yes, I was. The guaranteed hit was due to Legion being able to start up their Feral Frenzy instantly and then swing as much as they wanted until they landed their hit with no worries about missing.
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No, it was because they moved at 132% movement speed and could vault pallets and windows in 0.9 seconds. The no missed attack penalty and instant rev was just the cherry on top.
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Leatherface can't vault pallets and windows, though, and still has that start-up time.
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Yeah but that is with a perk and I doubt people would put bamboozle on leatherface anyway. Maybe in a couple weeks people will find better counterplay for him.
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Bubba is fine.
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Bamboozle only blocks 1 window. While it's strong against certain windows like Shack's window it's not going to be that helpful if survivors have another window close by they can vault over instead. You also have to bamboozle vault first so it won't help you if the survivor runs at the window vault while you are chasing them and then the survivor runs to a different window.
I think Bubba can certainly be oppression on specific maps. For example, Shelter Woods has very few pallets and not many vaults so there's not really much survivors can actually do to loop against Bubba on that map.
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Again, Bamboozle.
Literally everyone is running Bamboozle on him, and for good reason.
You move at 5.29 meters per second for 6 seconds. If you just mindgame one window during a saw, which you can do very easily given your enhanced movement speed, they’re not going to be able to use a nearby one because it’s either Bamboozled or you’re moving at 5.29 meters per second and catch up easily.
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If you closed out their only option with Bamboozle, sure, you probably got them, but I can believe that the Survivor still has a chance to make it to another area while Bubba tries to go for the chainsaw again. Not all loops die if you have Bamboozle.
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well yeah I mean you've gotta have at least one pay 2 win premium killer for survivors to whinge about come on.
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Look it seems to me you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you are already using the saw then you can't use bamboozle, there are very few windows you can mind game as you described but who knows maybe I'm not that great at mind games.
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you are delusional if you think old legions "idontseeyuidontseeyu DOWNED" was only "icing on the cake"
I'll just leave you with survivors favorite catch-phrase.... gitgud bbsurv
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If it was because of their movement speed increase and vault pallets, then why does their frenzy still do that, but Legion themselves is considered low-mid tier by much of the community?
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That’s how most of this forum wants it though. Killers that get you no matter what with little skill requires on their part
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I love when survivors go into lockers the timing to escape is so narrow lol, i'll just bump into the locker and if they don't time it correctly or don't have head on i get a free grab or they get sawed anyway.
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He's kind of like a pyramid head. Strong in chases but terrible map pressure. He can be genrushed.
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No offense, but I think your pretty bad at survivor if your dying to Bubba. Bamboozle with chainsaw killers has always been a stable strategy in their Arsenal. I mean billy strategy has always been revolved around disrespect pallets that if you drop the pallet, he has enduring and will just break pallet anyway and if you don't drop pallet, he curves it. I would say there is precise timing that when Bubba is at his 90th degree of chainsaw(The end of his sweep), you can drop a pallet and stun him to interrupt it, however the Bubba can purposely respect pallet for like one recovery sweep in which dropping pallet makes him break it (but billy can do this as well). Maps that have many windows chain together like Suffocation pit is a near instant loss for Bubba. Lery has nasty set of windows that if used correctly can make it very difficult to chainsaw, Dead end windows or Windows that Bubba has to go around with chainsaw like Haddonfield window in top house or Fence windows are also no-go for Bubba power. As for maps where every filler pallet/tileset is in isolation, I would say that Bubba can chew through many pallets quickly but you can still loop bubba for a good solid 5 minutes+ before every pallet on the map is broken assuming you don't corner yourself. This is assuming Bubba has abosolute perfect play with zero mistakes and realistically speaking, Most bubba's can probably be looped around a rock or tree because their driving skills are ass. I think its pretty crazy to compare Bubba to Old legion or current legion for first hit. Bubba is ok for average joe survivor but realistically good players will beat Bubba out of 9/10 times. That's just reality of any non-anti loop killer I'm afraid.
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Lockers are unbelivably unsafe against bubba, have you tried juking him? it basically impossible.
I do agree windows are quite strong against him though.
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You do NOT move at 5.29 seconds for 6 seconds.
The chainsaw accelerates up to a top speed of 5.29, but it doesn't start at that speed. You first have to rev the saw for 2 seconds during which time you move slower than the Survivor, and then after you finish reving you start accelerating from that same speed. It's only after you start consuming additional tokens does the full speed stay at 5.29.
Additionally, being able to vault pallets and windows makes it far easier to get a hit in compared to quickly breaking pallets and bamboozling windows. And while yes, those hits didn't mean nearly as much, Legion was and still is a very weak Killer.
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Yeah, you're totally right... Except there are things you can do about bubba. First: vault windows. If the bubba has Bamboozle, it barely matters because you will have gained enough distance to make it to the next pallet. Thing 2: throw the pallet. You might get a stun but it'll probably be an instant break. Still plenty of time to go find another window to vault, though. Rinse and repeat and you have bubba gameplay.
Old legion was literally unavoidable. They could vault everything and keep hitting you regardless of anything you did. Bubba at an LT wall is just an m1 killer with (potentially) Bamboozle.
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"little skill" ? Have you even played new Bubba (against decent loopers) on a difficult map? They still (nearly) nullify his power by chaining windows (which makes Bamboozle useless as well).
Also timing the charges while chainsawing around loops, corners, through doors and other narrow ways , around and through jungle gyms while avoiding all the tiny, dark edges of weirdly shaped objects requires more mechanical skill than most other killers in the game imo.
There's a reason most Bubbas are failing horribly from what I see and experience. Personally I've beaten all of the new Bubbas as a solo player thus far.
All of them either use up their stacks too quickly or miss the timing window allowing me to loop them around long pallets just like old Bubba OR they bump into something allowing me to get away for free.
Meanwhile all survivors do is hold M1 on a gen granting them their "very skillful" win and in a chase all you do as a survivor is dropping pallets and vaulting windows. Both mechanics are far from skillful and that's coming from someone who posted multiple 5 gen chases on rank 1.
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Here we go again demanding more and more and more nerfs...
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Damn, the poor guy has been good for about a week and people are already crying about him. Poor thing
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I was going to reply to OP but you summed up what I was going to say about Bamboozle.
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That sounds greatly oppressive, this doesn’t even count the perks which add speed.
I’ve only gone against one Bubba since the update and it was pretty much boring because we had entirely bad set ups so I was just accepting that we were going to lose the match because of that, but seeing the numbers now I understand why.
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i agree bubba is DISGUSTING now. There is essentially nothing you can do if the killer has bamboozle, Throw on sf,enduring and its over no chase is going to last very long period.
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Nothing is worse than: "miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, haha gotcha!"
or "let me moonwalk real quick so you can't do anything except going down no matter what."
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I Watched people chainsaw through preschool just fine. Dunno about not being able to clear them corners
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Hallways army what I'm referring to..moreso bushes, trees, rocks etc..then of course there are lockers and windows
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Maybe it's time to change your mindset, Bubba isn't that weak killer anymore, it's somehow more threatening and balanced.
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It's dumb. I either use 5 pallets in a 30 second chase just to not get insta downed, or end up later in the game with no pallets because everyone had to use them, so I'm just insta downed.
Window vaults aren't safe unless you already had a 3 feet running start on him. Not to mention there's a lot of deadzones you get stuck in on multiple maps.
Also, the amount of LF I see running infectious fright now is making calm spirit meta for me.
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The only thing right now I see with Bubba is I feel like the rarity of some addons should be swapped or moved around. Aside from that I feel basekit Bubba is in a nice spot.
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I just want to add that one of my favourite maps (that yall hate) hawkins has nearly no windows and lockers dont work if you cant time perfectly so on that map specifically and kinda the game too there is NO counterplay to new bubba
all I want is a slight delay to him re-revving after a miss like a solid second and a half (its frustrating to run from pallet to pallet breaking all of them just because he can saw constantly)
edit: I also want to note that he can literally hit you and catch up to hit you again in 1 chainsaw sprint with the correct addons so.... kinda BS but whatever
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After reading this post I too feel like I've gotten Insta-Downs. Especially the guy saying "pay 2 win premium killer."
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Dude bubba is now better than he was. "Oh look a killer that I could greed loops against because his chainsaw wasn't threatening can now actually punish me." Dude seriously? Bubba gets wrecked easy if you play smart and bamboozle? Really just learn how to play pallets and chain loops to maximize window opportunities. Second t and L walls and he can't do crap and if he M1 you make distance. Sorry to say but unless you got no pallets or Windows or outpositioned you're dead. What does that mean? Chainsaw killers are easily looped of you keep accurate distance and play your cards right. Don't try and call bubba broken when his ability is actually scarier amd more fun now. He isnt even that much harder to go against he is just more punishing
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Except he takes skill.
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This is the best comment I've seen so far.
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