Dead By Daylights Pay to Win Nature
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Characters themselves should have to be purchased I agree but again my issue is perks and them giving people who pay an advantage no matter how low the cost.
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Yet another selfish "I want everything for free without having to work for it" player who thinks the game is P2W if he can't have the stuff he wants without having to play the game to get them.
I see nothing wrong with the monetization system on DBD other than the cosmetics are overpriced for a game that is not free.
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LOL I dont want to have players forced to wait 2 years to get the same adavantage I have from buying the DLC. Yet another person who didn't read the post. People should have to work for shards yes but not pay money for an advantage that is literally p2w. Make them purchasable through shards like I said not money. Characters should be what we're buying not and advantage.
I see nothing wrong with your lack of insight on the subject other than your comment is taking up actual conversation space.
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Battlefront only deals with one license and DBD has to deal with so many different partnerships at the same time that ask for their own quota. Its understandable from that point why they choose this model in specific. Its not that great for the game but keep all the "businessman" happy so I dont think its a comparable scenario.
I dont think the game has a super heavy pay to win aspect to it, but sadly the balance make it so getting some survivors-killers is extremely important to have a "better experience". I dont think those perks or characters allow you an easy way nor give you a tactical advantage over someone who doesnt pay for DLC, but they allow you to have more options for builds, in my opinion is more about variety than power.
To put an example, I love to play with Surveillance, Ruin, Save the best for last and some other meme perk. I know that allows me to play in a certain way while some players who doesnt have any of those perks is probably forced to use other perks, mostly tracking and chase perks since slowing down gens perks are not very common (Nurse Thanatofobia and Huntress Lullaby being the only ones). But if you take a closer look you can actually win and have a good experience without any DLC, you dont need them at all, but having them gives you more choices and a lot of meme potential.
I do think the game is super grindy and the pay aspects are insane, they ask too much for too little, but and I dont think that makes the game a P2W as some people think.
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Yet another person who didn't read the post. You shouldnt have to be forced to wait 2 years for the same advantage I had from day 1 because I spent money. Have people work for perks by making them pay with shards no matter what week it is.
I see nothing wrong with your lack of insight on this subject except for the fact you take up space for real conversation
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If DBD wont die like the other BHVR game called "Deathgarden™: BLOODHARVEST". BTW, I believe it was completely removed from the steam yesterday. only forum page left. :D yeah, wait for one more year or two, sure.
EDIT: YEP, it was.. https://steamcommunity.com/app/555440/discussions/0/2789370076137869063/
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The best perk builds for most killers include DLC perks, that gives you an advantage. DBD makes enough money to pay for licenses from the amount of people who buy the game after said license is announced.Also your statement "it's not a comparable scenario" makes no sense here they both use the same models maybe you could argue its easier for dbd to justify the amount of p2w in the game because of the amount of licenses they have paid for but that doesnt mean they're not comparable. And if you were to use that argument again they make more than enough from game purchases when dlc is announced to let DLC purchases go down a bit for a better overall game experience.
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I don't care about what Battlefront or any other game did or didn't do that people liked or didn't like. Using a similar model doesn't mean jack as this is an entirely different game with different mechanics and should be looked at all on it's own.
Are you serious here? You're saying BBQ is the weakest example of p2w when it cuts the grind time in half which is one of the more complained about aspects of this game to the point people would probably kill for a perma bloodhunt? Not only that but that time save will net you a lot more items and perks a lot quicker then you'd normally get them which is a major advantage. More perks and items in less games then you'd normally have is pretty big to the point you could use top tier add-ons every game where you otherwise might not be able to. While it might not be in game BBQ definitely gives you a bigger advantage then any of the other perks mentioned.
As another point the already minimal advantage you may get isn't always present either. There are times you simply won't get any use out of the perks you mentioned and in some cases you might even be hindered by them due to playstyle changes around said perks.
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Someone disagree with you = You are right, they are wrong.
Sigh, I read your post, but you are just full of cry over nothing and continue to cry even when someone still doesn't agree with you. You refuse to accept that not everyone agrees with your statements about DBD and its business model.
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P2W isnt pay to progress, the advantage isnt minimal and you threw out my point of comparison because "it's a different game" when they have the same P2W model????
They have different in game mechanics but both models give the same amount of advantage to the side who pays more.
You always get use of BBQ you always get use of surveillance and you always get use of make your choice or at least in 99% of games, the only one that ill agree with you may not get use is stbfl but when it does get used its stronger than any of the other perks listed.
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Lol never said someone disagreed with me + they are wrong you just made no points.
"I read your post but didnt respond to anything you said because i think you're a crybaby"
Nice one dude I get people dont agree thats why I'm explaning why theyre wrong for not agreeing when they have counter points or say arguments i already addressed in the post
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I know this has been said but the shrine exists and im pretty sure they have to pay to get those rights for those killers to be in their game so i just don't see the issue making licensed killers being locked only by a pay wall if you don't wanna wait for the shrine do what i do for my friend i own all the dlc he wants a perk from a killer or survivor have him grind 1mill and log into his account and get him the teachable if you don't have friends then well your SOL
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I stated why the shrine of secrets was bad and only mentioned perks not killers killers and survivors are fine being behind paywalls but perks shouldn't, It takes 2 years on average to get a full perk set for 1 character also your freind bit doesnt make sense because you still dont have the perk on your account, and I have this on the original post I have all DLC. I am simply arguing against the P2W nature of the game.
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Casual reminder that D-Strike is NOT 60 seconds of invulnerability. That's propaganda that keeps getting circulated around the forums. It is 60 seconds of not being hooked again
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Well, Netease owns a stake in Behavior Interactive, so expect nothing less.
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So invulnerability? If your downed no progress towards you dying is made only hooking progresses that sure you being slugged slows down the game but it doesn't make you closer towards death therefore making you invulnerable and impossible to hook during those 60 seconds.
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yeah your invulnerability to the hook.
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No.
You can still be Morid, caged, slugged, the killer can just decide to pick up the survivor and eat the DS instead of crying about it (because that's usually the best play unless it's endgame)
Then while that person is slugged or whatever, the killer can pressure the survivor who did the rescuing (and actually let the other person play the game but why care about other people's fun, right? XD)
There's plenty of options but none of them involve the survivor becoming untouchable or invulnerable
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Moris, cgaes, and slugs oh right right i already addressed slugging but the other two ill answer with one word : Lockers .
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Moris, cages, Eating DS, and slugs oh right right i already addressed slugging but the other two ill answer with one word : Lockers. As for Eating the DS yeah that means more than 60 seconds unless you stand still or dont know the basics of looping of time not spent on the hook
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I disagree in a game like this. Pay to progress very much is pay to win here as it lets you get the same stuff in a faster time and allows you to use that same stuff more often which is a big advantage. It could very much be the difference between using an ebony mori every game or every other.
At this point though I don't see any reason to continue arguing specifically about the p2w aspect as we'll both just be shouting at a wall. You seem pretty dead set in your views and I'm pretty dead set in mine. As I mentioned in my first post I agree it's technically p2w but it's so stupidly minimal it's not worth the breath or time complaining about it.
As a side note I do think a better way to get perks would be nice such as a complete perk shop but with increased iridescent shard prices. Maybe make BBQ and other popular perks 10000 or so. I don't think something like this would be necessary but I do think it would be a nice addition.
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The pay to win argument here is really odd. Yes some powerful perks are available from DLC but base perks a completely viable.
BBQ and DS do not mean auto win, if you think that then you are giving them way to much credit.
Perks can be bought via the shrine with free in game currency. It pops up randomly and there are a lot of perks but that's called patience... its a virtue. Some perks may not be in the shrine so correct me if I'm wrong here.
Oh I have to pay for new content well yeah. A pay wall would be paying for the perks alone, but dlc usually has a new killer, new survivor plus perks. It like a poster add for entitlement.
Either be patient or anti up, the only issue here seems to be impatient FOMO. The cost of this game is quite cheap compared to others and doesn't have the spend money and gamble on reward element that many other online games have. i.e loot crates.
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Imagine complaining in 2020 that you should pay for licensed characters in Dead by Daylight, when EA is still a thing.
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Perks don't always matter. You say yourself that they are the main "pay-to-win" feature, despite how annoying they are, you can still beat them. Decisive Strike, even if you pay 5 dollars, that's still no guaranteed victory.
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No game offers a free win youre paying for an advanatge litterally have said that 20+ times now and in the orignal post
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I have stated that paying for characters is fine paying for perks however is not this is like the 50th+ time ive said this please read next time also DBD and EA have the same P2W model thats why ive drawn so many comparisons to Battlefront
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It takes 2 years to get a full set of dlc perks on one character on average that isnt impatience that's knowing when youre being taken advantage of and some DLC perks have yet to show up so for those theres still an infinite amount of time before you can get a full set. Never said any of the perks meant auto win litterally adressed this 50+ times but no multiplayer game lets you buy an auto win just advantages which all these perks give over non dlc perks.
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This is actually a really big problem, even if I love dbd as a game this is unalienable, who knows how long people that just bought the game will have to pay inorder to get all the shrine perks
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Read the post again slowly please
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On average for a full set of one characters perks it takes 2 years perks on average show up once per year and sometimes skip years altogether
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The problem is that people that have played dbd for a really long time and bought the first dlcs a really long time ago don't realise how how much money a new player has to pay in order to get everything
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Well, that's the nature of licensed characters, you gotta pay to use them in your game, so they gotta sell them to get the money for them.
All of the licenses killer's and survivor's perks can be acquired from the shrine, if you really can't afford to pay for the DLC.
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Read the post again I say characters are fine for purchase perks arent and the shrine takes 2 years on average to get all the perks for one character
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I'll throw my hat into the ring. Decisive is a bad perk that plans for failure. As long as someone runs an obsession making perk the killer will fear DS even if you don't have it. That's usually enough.
Best perks (IMO) are Dead Hard (David) Bond or Self Care (Dwight/Claud) Unbreakable/Borrowed (Bill) Iron Will (Jake) Mighty Pebble (Adam). I have never needed any licensed perk. Do I use it sometimes? Yeah, I do. Once you get it you realize a good chunk of matches you don't get to use it because you can just loop the killer off the hook with Dead Hard.
Killer side I kinda get BBQ, but at the same time Discordance is better and doesn't rely on a hook state. Ruin (Hag) Pop (Clown) Nurses (Nurse) Corrupt Intervention (Plague) Brutal Strength (Trapper) Enduring (Hillbilly) (Also all Spirit Perks) are the better setups in the game. To be honest most licensed perks just aren't good. That's probably by design. LOOK OUT FOR SURGE WHAT A GAME CHANGER.
If you're a completionist and want to 100% this game, yes getting the Adepts require you to spend money, but you can throw the Halloween chapter in the trash and your game really wouldn't change as either survivor or killer. You'd also have the added bonus of not getting pulled off the gen by a sneaky boi without licensed chapters, but I won't get into that here.
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No, it isnt. We can play with words, you can say that it is a little thing, but someone can abuse it to 200% every game. An advantage stay an advantage. If players can pay for advantages = its Pay2Win.
Gambling is another bad thing, a separate topic for discussion. :P
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Dude Battlefront is the most notorious pay2win game and it didnt give the players who paid an insta win this is a non starter your definitions are just your own and I can'T argue against you if you want to use them because you're right, your definition of pay2win would mean there are no p2w multiplayer games so go off dude you won in your head ig
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You keep saying that certain perks give you advantages, they all do, hence the name 'perks'.
You also keep saying this is unethical, which it isn't. You make a choice to buy it or not. Getting the 'day one advantage' isn't easy since you need to get that advantage through lots of work plus the money you paid.
Do I think the shrine should open more perks than 4 at a time? Sure. Let's say 6 or even 8. Something more to look forward to and less waiting overall.
Do I think everything should be available day 1 for shards? No. I think they should go back to having a couple perks from the dlc available after a couple weeks though.
One last thing though.
Ruin, Nurse's Calling, Stridor, Pop Goes The Weasel, Infectious Fright, Corrupt Intervention, Whispers, M&A, Sloppy Butcher, and Discordance are all perks in base game or available on characters you can obtain with shards. In conjunction most of these perks are better than the ones you listed.
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Objectively what you consider the best perks are not the best perks except for maybe the Bill ones Best build for survivors objectively is DS Unbrekable SprintBurst and either adrenaline or Borrowed Time as for killer there is way more variability But Ruin is Useless without Surveillance on most characters, Save the best for last is great on most killers but is the best on Demo and him without him makes him so much weaker. Make your choice makes freddy incredibly strong and buffs wraith by a lot.
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Yes on basic killers but DLC perks make other killers 10x stronger than the ones listed Like STBFL on Demo Surveillance on Pyramid Head Make your choice on freddy or BBQ on ghost face. All of these killers can win without said perks but with them they are much stronger than with the ones you listed. As for your way to fix this i disagree but thats a matter of opinion.
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The main difference is you have to pay or wait two years for those advantages
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Demo and freddy are dlc characters anyway, you'd still have to pay to get them and thus the 15 perks that come along with them. Maybe argue more about the base characters and this would make more sense.
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How are you paying for perks, though? The only price you pay for them is your time, which you spend on either getting BP or iridescent shards. The only real money I personally have spent in DbD were on characters and AC for Battle Pass (which has nothing to do with neither perks nor wins). All the perks you mentioned can be found in SoS sooner or later, it's not locked anywhere. If you badly want it without paying one cent - just play the game and wait. Where's the problem?
Licenses are not cheap and many of them are more than difficult to get in-game. Most killers, like Bubba or Pig, are not even that incredibly god-like to buy them without their perks (unless you are a fan #1 and just want a look that you know and love). Your argument just doesn't feel fair. And there is nothing to be compared with EA. If you don't pay in DbD you are still fine, if you are skillfull. If you don't buy Battlefront lootboxes you're still pretty much in a sh*t spot even if you're skillfull.
DbD doesn't sell you casino simulator, EA does. What the hell are you talking about?
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My argument is for paying for perks not character so why Should I argue with base characters when theres no overlap with the ones I mentioned and on top of that I have more experience with DLC characters.
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You also have to pay for each of the killers you mentioned. Look we're going to disagree on the perks, because I don't play bbq on gf, I honestly just hate MYC on anyone because I don't just run back to hook, and I don't play Surveillance on ph because I like I'm All Ears much better (yes another paid perk).
I get your opinion, but you have to remember that your opinion on some perks doesn't make it pay to win, it just makes your personal builds pay to win.
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EA allowed you to get the content without paying money too? It just took ridiculously long, DBD Perks take 2 years for one DLC character set and some have yet to show up at all?
Licenses that are paid for are made up with game purchases alone after a DLC is announced, DLC purchases wouldnt go down all that much because perks are purchasable. If you don't pay in DBD you're in a shitspot at high levels of play even if you outmatch the other team.
Never taled about lootboxes either what the hell are you talking about?
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Some DLC perks are objectively better builds though and give you more of a competitive advantage also I never said paying for characters was wrong just the perks plus theyres no overlap with the perks on those characters and the ones I had mentioned so I dont see your point on why it matters you had to pay for them.
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When Ruin breaks unless you're going to kick every gen you see (don't) Surv becomes a useless perk. You're two perks down now instead of one. I was using Ruin before Pig even came out so I never really got into the habit of pairing it with other perks, but back in yonder day high rank survivors just consistently hit greats and kinda made it a moot point anyway. Demo is a purchased character and Save the Best usually a waste because if the obsession is playing with friends and they realize you have it, guess who is going to start taking protection hits?
Freddy's also a purchased character. Freddy used to be an absolute joke in this game too. F was for Freddy tier. They made him a little bit better with his blood puddles and he can warp around, but the only thing about him that makes Freddy good is his deceptive range. He's a smol boi and his animation does not fit his hit cone. His arm doesn't even stretch so a lot of people think they can run him another loop but they can't.
Shape/Ghostface/Pig/Demo after using a portal all have one thing in common though. They're sneaky bois that yoink you off gens if you're not paying attention. That's what you're paying for with them. The ability to yoink people. This game is pay to yoink. Freddy even hides his terror radius so if you're not paying attention he can yoink you too. Pyramid Head has Trail of Torment, which increases his yoinkiness by 100%. If you want to make a case on anything, all of these licensed characters are yoink masters.
(I said I wasn't going to get into that, but it's true!)
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Because to get the characters your saying work best with specific perks also need to be bought, I thought this was about a paywall for people who don't want to buy things. You come across as though everyone has access to the dlc characters like demo and PH which doesn't make any sense if you're trying to argue that people need specific perks for them. The people who would mainly argue this point wouldn't want perks for these killers because they most likely don't have them. All's I'm saying is it would strengthen your argument if you focussed on what all the dlc perks that make base killers better are.
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Freddy is one of the strongest characters and yes after ruin breaks surveillance value lessens by a lot but before that happens you have the best perk combo in the game but again I dont care about paying for characters, my argument is about perks
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I'm not sure if you're confusing objective with subjective or not, but nothing is objectively better in this game unless you do a direct comparison of something like spirit's mobility is better than trapper's.
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