Noed should be disabled after 50hrs
It is so demotivating to completely put play a killer then have them still be able to come out with kills they never earn.
With moris being so easy to get its a little stupid to be giving killers with 2000 hrs access to a get out of jail perk.
New killers i get, its tough out there for them.... but just disable it after 50-100 hrs with killer
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I am all for that, if we do the same with Decisive Strike.
Its nessecary in low ranks, but once you reach rank10, it should be disabled.
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I absolutely despise NOED, it's by far one of the killer perks I hate the most, I feel it rewards killers for failing at their task.
That's why I do totems. I encourage you to do the same. The feeling when the match ends and you see that you removed that perk from the killer's hands by destroying all the totems in the map is one the most satisfying feelings in this game in my opinion.
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No, do bones
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Yeah NOED can feel so frustrating at times. Yesterday a NOED Spirit got me at the end right at the gate, mere feet away from getting my last map achievement (Hawkins). Feltbadman.
On the flipside it would be pretty unfair to just remove a killer perk that can feel frustrating for survivors at times yet doing nothing to compensate. Maybe identify 2nd chance perks and limit them to 1 per survivor also? :P
I´m not for it. Hopefully someone will come up with nice solutions to the most imbalanced perks and gets heard by the devs so the game will feel more fair and balanced.
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Well, as much as I am favorable to that, the substantial difference (other than the fact that NoeD is far more common that it should be, with the unnecessary speed boost as well) is that NoeD is there for every (bad) player, while DS is paid content. They can't have you not use something that you paid for. But trust me, as much as I despise both perks, I am starting to see the point into DS. Every single time I play as survivor, I get chased endlessly, because killers all play that way. Chase you until they down you because of Bloodlust, even if it takes them 4 gens to do so. I ran into a PC Billy yesterday (I am on PS4). He took so long to get me that the poor b*tthurt folk facecamped me until I died, hitting me until the very end. With those kinds of players in mind, DS needs to be a thing. If they get purged from the game, however, or at least a change gets implemented that makes the killer gradually slower the longer he chases the same guy... But while I play killer, yes, I get the feeling.
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DS should be a thing but must be changed that it deactivate when touching a gen.
You cant be tunneled when you can do your objective
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I find noed is balanced its just theres no way to know how many totems are left for solo q. I'd rather they buff Small Game by telling you how many totems are left in the match. Would be a nice QoL buff to an already decent perk :)
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Since I play soloq exclusively I agree. Not too long ago I read a suggestion for a sort of shrine with candles on it, indicating how many totems remain in the trial. Seemed really neat.
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Just do bones, it takes literally 0 skill.
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That I agree with.
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But the killers task is to kill everyone, not to defend Gens.
Same goes for survivors, its not their task to complete gens, its to survive.
Of course they can be ,,part" of the objective but just because a Killer lost all gens, it doesnt mean he lost or failed at their objective.
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both your ideas are dumb af, no perk should ever be disabled, just play better
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I mean, it takes no skill but how simple it is really depends on the map. There’s no excuse for not doing totems on an Autohaven map but good luck finding all five on Lerys unless you bring a totem hunting perk. And between all the other perks I need to run to counter things (just run Iron Will, just run DS, just run Kindred, and on and on...) that’s not really a viable option most of the time.
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They use it, because you basically have to press M1 without any skill to do your objective and the gens go too fast. Harder skill checks and more frequent skill checks or another objective and less people will use it, because they believe they can win without it.
You can just calculate what takes longer: 4 survivor doing 5 gens, where each one takes roughly 80 seconds for a single survivor to do, or to hook 4 survivors 12 times if you aren't considering tunneling.
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NOED is the only second chance killers get. And it's not even a good one imo.
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For almost 2 weeks, I play Survivor with Chest/Totem finder build. I noted that the team will get destroyed most of the time. But if I use chase build or Gen focus build. the team has better chance to survivor. I play Solo.
Find & destroy all totems doesnt help survivor to escape, doing gen is. And eventually gen rush then leave with 1 dies by Noed. Is better than destroying 5 totems, and survivors drop here and there, while there are 3 Gens to do.
As @Demonl3y said, killing Survivors are main objective, protecting Gen is just to extend the trial time. Which exactly how Survivors do in the opposite, Gen rush to shorten trial time.
This tunnel,camping,noed vs gen rush will never stop until Devs do something that Killers arent able to do it any more, and gen rush become impossible (2nd objective between Gens for example)
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So should we also disable DS and Adrenaline after 50 hours? Those both reward a survivor for mistakes. No, because it's the players choice to use the perks they unlocked. Nobody has the right to tell anyone what to and not to use in their game. If you're so bothered by NOED, maybe try doing those white skulls that sometimes glow around the map maybe? Maybe try letting go of the Gen sometime and do one of those mystical bones?
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Iirc, devs themselves have said NOED doesn't just reward killers for failing.
The devs themselves have literally invalidated your statement. And even if your statement is correct, DS also rewards survivors for failing.
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The biggestmistake of NOED topic starters is that they mention it alone. What about Adrenaline? Why adrenaline is not a hex perk, too?
No DS after 100h? lol It will be brainless tunneling.
Totem counter wouldnt hurt, but I agree with this.
What about Rancor and Blood Warden? 3rd chance?
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I must admit, I really don't see the issue with NOED - it means the killer is playing with only 3 perks throughout the match and survivors can prevent NOED by doing the totems in the match. I was only ever bothered by NOED in the days where it was constant after the last gen was done and there was no way to disable it, and it was always run with old Bitter Murmur. I'm always surprised that people dislike NOED so much, because it's so easy to disable before it even comes into play!
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Survivors should have DS disabled after 10 hours, I get its not fun being tunneled the first games you play but those with over 10 hours and 1 minute of playtime abuses it and its so frustrating to deal with
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Blood Warden gets automatically countered by optimal survivor gameplay aka genrush and 99% gates. Rancor is pretty build-reliant. That's why i don't count SF+Enduring too.
NOED just works as a standalone second chance, that's why it's truly the only one.
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Blood Warden + No Mither and go after survivor who is near gates. Down that survivor, open the gates and you get it.
I Rancor every game, so I will disagree. Incrediably rarely my obsession is careful enough to dodge me.
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Autocorrect screwed you right there lol.
Anyway, i get your perspective, but my experience with rancor and bloodwarden was quite bad.
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Don't be ridiculous. You can turn Noed off anytime you want. Cleanse Totems.
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Here is a tip. Many talented Killers, that know exactly what they are doing, take Noed (among other Hexes) to SLOW DOWN Generators. Every second spent hunting down and cleansing a Totem buys the Killer some breathing space. We don't expect Noed to still be up at the end and actually go off. If it does, that is BAD on you.
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It's amazing how some survivors constantly complain about NOED, yet when I run Haunted Grounds or Devour Hope and get one or two instant downs out of them mid-game I never get these complaints after the match. Yet NOED is really just an Exposed condition perk like Haunted Grounds or Devour Hope that happens to trigger at the very end of the match instead of in the middle of it. If anything Haunted Grounds in fact is probably better than NOED since the downs you get from it happen earlier in the match so have a better chance of building momentum to snowball into keeping the gens from being completed at all.
Also this notion that if the gens are done the killer is "bad" is nonsense. The game is designed to be balanced around 2 kills per game with exactly 2 kills more or less being a draw. Which means that you should expect probably 60-70% of games between equally matched opponents to have between 0-2 kills (i.e. losses and draws), all of which involve the exits being open and the gens all being done. Therefore the post-gen completion phase that NOED uses is not a sign of a "bad killer", it's a normal part of the game that even good killers are going to experience all the time against equally good survivors even when they play well.
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i just feel disappointed when I see we (survivors) have prevented NOED from activating. It's just a whole.....oh...I feel bad for the killer.
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Excellent points. And of course, there are Killers that can insta-down you all game long without the need for a Hex. Get over yourselves. Noed is probably better for you because:
- You can make sure it never happens and thus waste a Killer's Perk slot.
- You know when it will happen and aren't going to be surprised.
- The Killer still has to be on you or pick the right gate.
All in all, the only thing that makes Noed painful (when it is really not bad at all) is that you have all your little hopes up and can see the light at the end of the tunnel, and get extra mad when it is snatched away. Get over it. Noed is just the Exposed status and being insta-downed is pretty widespread in the game. The first time people face a Tier-3 Myers and get insta-downed they are confused, and downright angry if I just outright Mori someone that has never been on the Hook. :) Those people might have some room to be annoyed. Those people upset about Noed do not.
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you're absolutely right; there's no skill involved. Finding all five totems is just pure luck (luck is also involved in if you bring a perk to combat NOED because you might never see NOED with something like Small Game equipped and you might see it as soon as you take it off) with no regard to how skilled any of the players are.
And that's exactly why people get annoyed with it. The "counter" is not skill based.
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And what's the counter to whispers? Tinkerer? Bitter Murmur? Why is NOED the one perk which absolutely must require "skill" to counter?
also it's ironic because knowing where totems spawn is definitely a skill, one that separates a good survivor from a great one
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I mean, there are plenty of things to deal with auras, the most important being misdirection, especially from a distance, but "counters" include things such as Sole Survivor. I've gone against killers with Bitter Murmur very rarely, but the most recent of which was one where I had a Blood Amber and the killer was Pyramid Head (on the Game). I could see him try to cut me off, and I just planned around it. In regards to Whispers, the best thing to do is just run after the killer if you're the only survivor left, keep inside the terror radius, etc. Whispers is a perk that requires survivors to move around frequently and somewhat erratically if they don't want to be caught out.
Lastly, I don't see how irony plays a part in what you say. I don't really want to get into a discussion about this, but I'm willing to put forth my stance, accepted by a majority of people, which is that knowledge is not a skill. Therefore, knowing totem spawns is not a skill. How you use that knowledge relies on skill. I know a large variety of totem spawns in-game, some of which I've discovered only through playing killer and seeing a hex totem appear there. As a survivor, even running through the tiles from objective to objective, evading and hiding, I typically only see two to three totems per match. Rarely will I see more than that, and I often will see less. Those numbers are all due to luck, which includes but is not limited to placement of generators, tile types, tile orientation, and spawn positions, all of which are not factors we, as players, can control. That is why people dislike the mechanics of NOED. It's why many aspects of the game come across as frustrating to players, but I continue to support this kind of RNG (not for totems tho) even as ScottJund opposes it.
I have nothing right now against the idea of NOED; a final hurrah from the killer of pressure over the survivors is cool (NOED should receive it's successful and missed cooldown reductions back, however, and it shouldn't give the insta-down effect until perk tier III, but that's for another time). I am against the idea that it is characterized as all being in the survivors hands whether or not the perk is activated. I have, on several occasions, not cleansed a totem next to the gen I'm about to finish just in the hopes that the totem to light up is the one next to me and not one of the ones of which I have no clue where they are.
P.S. I'm supportive of anyone who likes using NOED but recognizes its shortcomings. I'm not so supportive of people who argue that it is okay as it currently stands.
Edit: I've never heard of anyone who thinks that because a survivor found more totems than someone else, that the former survivor is better than the latter (lol?).
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"Edit: I've never heard of anyone who thinks that because a survivor found more totems than someone else, that the former survivor is better than the latter (lol?)."
Well now you've heard of one. If someone can only find 1 totem, and the other person can find all 5 - that 2nd person is better. Call it knowledge, skill, whatever you want. If you don't have the tiles and locations memorized, you're simply not as good as someone who has. If it's the RNG nature of it, every hex totem must grind your gears. They're RNG and if taken out early in the game there's no coming back. With NOED it has no impact on the most important part of the match, opposite of hex totems.
If you're convinced finding 5 totems is 'pure luck' then there's nothing else to say - you just need to learn the totem locations.
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Not One upvote
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Complaining about a perk which i do agree compensates bad plays yet no saying anything about how ds, unbreakable, dead hard play the same roll and are in fact way more powerful. I don't know man. Killer getting kills that didn't deserve is frustrating, now bear with me and imagine how killers feel when these mentioned perks come into play saving survivors after they commit mistake after mistake.
Not to mention every game with at least decent players won't have a single totem by the minute all gens are done, specially for their spawn locations (they spawn right next to bloody survivors main objective more often than not, just funny). There is a reason why not a single totem perk is meta at top level, they don't last 20 seconds more so if facing a team in coms.
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And running should be disabled after 100 hours.
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I know the "just do bones" idea comes up a lot, but since noed is so goddamn powerful, I think it should be a lit totem throughout the match. Not only will this make it more fair on survivors who have managed to do all 5 gens, it also gives a massive incentive to cleanse totems, making haunted grounds an even better perk. Another possible idea would be that the killer has to have a certain amount of chase points and a few hooks for it to activate. If the killer hasn't hooked anyone in the trial, then why do they get a free kill or two with noed? They havent earned it. However, if they have two or three hooks already then maybe they are worthy of a few kills and noed becomes active at the end of the game. Its the most annoying thing when you run a killer for 3 gens then finish the last few gens without the killer getting a single hook just for noed to pop and I get facecamped for their bloodpoints, despite me fully earning those escape points. Its straight up robbery, something needs to change. Noed is worse than moris imo, yeah the killer is playing the game with one less perk but they could get kills running only noed, it doesnt matter what else they run. Ik that mod said its balanced but nah thats just not true. They are running with one less perk but in the end that last perk appears and just ends the game needing 0 skill.
Also im fully aware that there are survivor perks like unbreakable and ds that just need to be changed. I play both killer and survivor so im not just being entitled here, but this is a post about noed, not ds.
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If you are referring to me, I answered his post and also pointed out how biased his view was by just mentioning those perks and how they do worse than noed. All totem perks are useless at top tier. I do understand how they can become a problem in lower tiers, but that's not a balance issue, that's a skill issue
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honestly not sure who im referring to lmao. I spend most of my time at rank 1 survivor, they are still a problem a lot of the time. And I dont like cleansing all the totems, they are a pain to find and noed can have 5 totems while all other hex's get one. maps like lerys getting all 5 totems could add a good 10 mins onto your game. Maybe even if the totem for noed wasnt lit, it is still set to one totem, so if it is cleansed and 4 other totems remain, it doesnt activate. the survivors would have no idea if they cleansed it or not but it would add an element of luck for the survivors rather than just a fat ######### you from the killer. Sometimes, getting all 5 totems is easy, but usually thats just not possible. Not to mention you have to give your location away 5 times in one game to avoid getting insta downed... hardly seems fair.
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IMHO NOED is mostly fine. I think there should be an easier way to track remaining totems in the trial though. I've seen ideas like a shrine in the basement that displays remaining totems, putting a counter on Small Game, making the thunder-clap noise to signify all totems have been cleansed, etc. I've also seen an idea where at 4 gens all dull totems begin smoking if the killer has NOED as an early warning.
Either way in my opinion NOED is "fair" but frustrating to play against.
And frankly removing perks after a certain playtime is pretty stupid. What if someone wants to run it for an all-endgame build or on a weak killer like Clown? Or they just lack confidence in their ability for whatever reason and don't want to have to stress as much throughout the game? (I've noticed I'm less stressed and tend to play better just knowing I have NOED in my back pocket, even in matches where we never reach the endgame.) Doesn't make much sense for the game to give you something, and then take it away. (Granted I know many games that have special benefits to low ranked players as a "Crutch" that's automatically removed once you level up. I.E. 7 Days 2 Die's temperature immunity when you're low level, or how Metal Gear Solid 3 prevents you from obtaining serious injuries until after a certain part of the game is reached and the enemies up until then are deliberately designed to be extra incompetent by being less aggressive, and having no radiomen meaning you can gun everybody down without fear of an alarm being tripped provided nobody flees the screen transition to manually get help.)
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You at least know devour and haunted at least tell you that you’re exposed.
noed you dont know till its to late, and yes you just take out the totem but it can quickly snowball
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Totally not in favour. When you get a sweaty SWF team NOED can be very helpful. In fact I was using NOED yesterday against a sweaty SWF gen rushers and toxic teabaggers. It really helped me get 2 kills ( last hooks not first because I am not that bad ) and the other 2 got lucky cause there were no hooks near the exit gates.
Just do the totems when you see one even if it isn't hex.
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Yes, if it GLOWS. IT GOES.
No but really... If y'all HATE neod so much it not that hard to break totems, It the easiest counter to noed
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Noed does not even need to activate. If you destroy the totems they will not have it and even if you miss one and they do, it can be destroyed immediately. Its an amazing perk but its just not that broken
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A few thing here. Noed is very rare. At least comparitively speaking with DS, in my experience. But that aside.
You dont know if that was a pc Billy, the crossplay icon is for everything besides your platform.
Ds wouldnt have helped you there at all, you would need to be unhooked so thats not gonna help.
And slowing killers down while they chase would kill the game. I wouldnt mind removing bloodlust but adding the opposite of bloodlust ######### that.
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I completely agree as a guy who plays both sides noed rewards bad gameplay if u get out played than u take the loss and move on and try to improve don't rely on noed to get kills and the whole break the totems argument is so dumb if u have to go around the map spending a ######### load of time breaking totems it already puts u at a disadvantage for the mach
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Are you aware how quick some games can go? Don't you think totems were meant in first place to slow the game a little bit? And they actually failed. Once again, really good teams have 0 problem managing totem perks. It only gets uphill for people that are not that good, but then again, it is a matter of skill, not balance
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I know DS would have not helped there, as much as I do know he was a PC player. You see, devs made it so the crossplay symbol is global, so they can claim that console players cannot know it was a PC player who faced them, giving them an excuse to justify the fact that they pretty much screwed us over badly, to satisfy the PC community. But I also know you can look on Steam or Xbox Live to see if you find that profile. And guess what? There was just a single profile with that name on Steam, and he was playing DbD. Not all people are stupid like devs seem to think they are.
And no, trust me pal. If Noed is rare, then I am both Santa Claus and Krampus. Especially considering that bad players only need the first tier of the perk to be that bad.
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First of all, why did you use that terrible story in regards to ds if you knew it didnt matter at all in that scenario? That makes 0 sense.
The crossplay symbol have been a "globe" way before crossplay came to everyone. We used to have it for Windows store when playing from steam, and vice versa. If you think this is only benefitting the pc community. Then turn it off. Its an option not forced upon you. Turn off crossplay if you think it only benefits the pc community.
And yes you can look up steam profiles/xbox live and probably playstation profiles. But that doesnt mean that the devs are trying to hide it. If they were trying to hide it they could have put nothing up there and not tell you anything.
And I never said Noed was rare. I was saying it was rare compared to DS. But even without Noed is still pretty uncommon. I stumble upon a noed game every 10 matches or so. Which is why I said "in my experience".
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