Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.
Access the survey HERE!
100 Red Rank Killer Games Perk Summary
Comments
-
The 5 second stun can cost you more momentum than you think. You always have to consider if you want to eat it or not and by my prefered playstyle as a killer it's mostly not worth it. I mean people complain about DH as well. Mostly because it has a similar effect on taking chase momentum as the DS stun. Especially considering that slugging can be quite effecient in wasting survivors time as well, if done right.
0 -
I found even less usage in my stats, 28% and that led me to calling peoples bluff. DS has so much power because killers give it so much power. Call it a 40% chance of a 5 second stun, or a 100% chance of 60 seconds of free god mode, hand delivered by the killer.
Even if I do get stunned and cant catch the person, I've removed it from the game and am now free to tunnel that person right out of the game.
1 -
Equipping DS is more powerful than most killer perks. Even one person having it completely changes the game. The perk is so dumb that it doesn’t even have to be activated to have an effect.
0 -
Good players aren’t fumbling around looking for heals. You stay injured and do gens, then get a heal once you come across another survivor.
1 -
Now do the same with killer and you'll only see BBQ, PGTW, Corrupt, NOED, Discordance, Infectious Fright, Nurse's, Spirit Fury + Enduring. That's nine perks to match your 'data' and is the majority of perks I see killers use at red rank. Also the same slow build used on every Freddy and Legion.
2 -
Obviously only the devs would have access to this, but one data point you want in order to evaluate how effective Decisive Strike is in terms of survival rates or scores is you would compare the escapes and/or scores of games where there is no Obsession versus games where there is an Obsession and at least one of the players has Decisive Strike. The reason is because if a game has no Obsession at all then the killer automatically knows they don't have to worry about Decisive Strike at all that game and can freely pick up and carry downed players. But in a game that has an Obsession the killer may feel obliged to leave the dying survivor slugged for 60 seconds in order to avoid taking a potential momentum shift from a Decisive Strike escape. Differences in scores and escape rates in those two game types would partially correlate to the effectiveness of the threat of Decisive Strike being in the match changing killer behavior to possibly play suboptimally.
0 -
Let's ignore how common all others perk are and focus on self care which removes the need of looking for a teammate when you're solo and you want to go for a save or get chased for long.
0 -
have you noted how many games you had with at least one DS and how many with none?
0 -
Stats please. And it is not sufficent to point at a person just selfcaring and say "there, bad". More like check how many people with selfcare escape compared to how many die with Selfcare. Or who gets the most points. Or points on average of Selfcare vs non-Selfcare people.
But I'm pretty sure you didn't do that type of evaluation, more relying on a gut feeling, that totally doesn't care or notice when Selfcare user play well.
0 -
It was on the shrine "regularly". 11 times so far, about 3-4 times per year. The highest count as comparison is 18 (Calm Spirit and Enduring), Unbreakable was only 4 times on the shrine and the "newest" perks I saw that have never been on the shrine so far are from Demogorgon chapter or later.
0 -
I mean, you could collect that data yourself, and show your findings, I for one would be interested in it.
1 -
I don't see how pallets are related to Selfcare. You can also heal at good windows. The "other" death of all survivors is when you have continuously injured people that go down within 5 seconds because they didn't see from which side the killer is coming. The time you "waste" on Selfcare comes back in chase by extending the chase. And if the survivor can't run a killer for 16 seconds after a hit, it is not Selfcare being bad.
Most people just compare the time you need to heal with the time you could do on gens. And that comparison is irrelevant. If that is the argument, then healing overall is a waste of time, and I think we can agree that this is bs as well. Regarding efficiency: Ever noticed? A survivor selfcaring for 32 seconds takes 32 seconds. Two survivors, one healing one being healed for 16 seconds also wastes 32 seconds. Same amount of lost gen progress. If working on the same gen, it is actually more efficient if the healthy one stays on the gen for 32 seconds and the injured one selfcares, just to dodge the team slowdown.
The strength of Selfcare is not that you can heal as often as you want, it is that you can heal when you NEED it. And that is most likely, like with every other medkit or healing perk, only happening maybe twice per match. The bad thing is that people use Selfcare as often as possible, that is not the perk's problem. Run Bond and see where survivors waste time, crouching and hiding. It is the survivors, not the perk, that sucks, because they don't know when to use it and when they shouldn't.
0 -
That's exactly the point. You might not tunnel but still need to be aware who might potentially have DS up or risk to lose a good amount your pressure. That is simply the counterplay you have to do. And you can't say don't tunnel and don't respect obsession icons in the same sentence
1 -
So do you have time to sit in the balancing team? Just throw in stuff like "Make multiple Breakouts stack, then it is as strong as DS", do that to every perk and see in what a funny state the game will be soon.
1 -
Wasn't DS on the shrine like last month?
1 -
Pin it instead. :P
0 -
Selfcare may not be the issue as much as the players using it, but after seeing all three survivors doing it at once when you're on the hook, or doing it through sloppy butcher, or selfcaring immediately after getting unhooked even if you have we'll make it, it makes it hard to not start disliking the perk itself.
1 -
See? Look, right there - you clearly think that the power of DS is exclusively in the 5-second, usually unearned stun - yet you don't seem to understand that it killers are forced to play around a perk that often doesn't exist?
Also, given that I play more survivor, does your opinion change? Am I still a killer main to you because I call out a BS perk I almost exclusively see used aggressively? And, and I cannot believe I am pointing this out, you are ignoring both the fact that DS is used in more trials than Ruin and that Ruin had the actual, legitimate counterplay of hitting great skillchecks, which was actually pretty easy, whereas DS doesn't actually have any since the survivor not only gets value either way, they get value even if they don't have the perk equipped.
Killers don't "whine" about DS, DS is a legitimate problem that effects games that it isn't even in (which is extremely rare that it isn't in, btw) because it's so damned powerful.
1 -
Change SC to be 30 sec at base, but increase the bonus for a great skill check healing another to make that method ever so slightly better. Make Greats great again! Might even help stop a team mate from ripping my spleen out when they potato the checks...
0 -
Maybe i will, but it takes longer because if you die early, you have to wait for the match to end to see his / her perks.
0 -
In regards to the self care discussion I think it comes down to the mentality of the perk.
People who bring self care over some other perk do so because they feel the need to be in the healthy state a vast majority of (if not all) times.
So when they get injured, their first response is "I have self care so I should self care."
I never see people, in either killer or survivor matches, who run self care prioritising other actions over healing themselves.
So yes, numerically self care takes the same amount of seconds away as someone healing someone else, but in practice a self care player tends to spend a much higher proportion of the team's time on healing over useful actions like repairing or doing totems. It's especially noticeable in the late game when there's 1-2 gens left and the killer has decent pressure. Is 32 seconds spent for one health state better for the team than 40% of a generator? The answer is rarely yes.
If you play against a squad of 4 people who run self care, vs a squad of 4 people who run either Adrenaline, Iron Will or even Inner Strength, or even just no healing/stay injured perk, you're going to feel the pace of the match go way up in the latter.
Also classic; a thread talking about one of the major issues in the game, and the only official response is in regards to a complete tangential discussion.
1 -
The real question should be, how many of those people brought the perk because of past matches where they wish they had one of those perks where they had brought perks outside of those 9, because they either got tunneled to death, camped to death, or slugged to death.
The holy trinity of which are built in mechanics. Yet no one seems to accept that those 3 things add to how the meta is even in place. Stop asking for nerfs on perks if you can’t even admit that at least 1 of those 3 are used at least once during a match.
1 -
Of course there's no real evidence to prove it, but whenever I'm with a team that isn't doing gens or against a team who does the same, It's usually because they're self caring in a corner of the map through sloppy. The main problem is people don't know how to use it properly or use it too much when its more beneficial to work through gens. It just seems a lot of people have the same experience which draws the stereotype.
1 -
Ruin got nerfed because it destroyed new players and veteran players just simply hit the easy skill checks. Yes, I wish they waited to nerf it, but I'm glad they forced me to break the habit of relying on it and making me a much better killer.
1 -
There's at least 2 other perks that change the course of the game regardless of being in the game or not.
The first is noed. Regardless of whether the killer has it, there's a potential 75 seconds, almost an entire extra gen, of objective in order to prevent a perk which may not be in play. The difference between DS and NOED however is that most killers have to respect DS because the loss in momentum of one slip up can be game losing, whereas most survivors seem to bank on the fact that either NOED won't be in the current game, or someone else will deal with it, or worst case, hopefully they aren't the chump who gets hit by it while everyone else abandons them.
The other is Blood Warden. Every single game involves people 99ing the gates which primarily is to avoid a perk which nobody has seen for years BECAUSE of this counter. Of course it's nowhere near the game impact the other 2 have.
2 -
Well when killers walk to a gen and see a survivor working on it in their face, they know 100% they have it and they just have to slug them and let them Unbreakable in 10 seconds and make the killer role a joke. They just don't want to tunnel, bro.
1 -
And this, Is why I intentionally derank from red ranks.
No creative builds, just mindlessly spamming crutch perks.
I'm not going to play such boring games.
0 -
my #1 fear when playing killer against survivors is against survivors that do not heal and play the game is very ironclad way. It makes gen speed go so fast. It shows very high degree of confidence in playing survivor and it is very skillful. In my opinion, every hit you take as survivor is a mistake on your part and I think one of the major reasons to why survivor has trouble in piping in some games has to do with benevolent emblem. Its too based off killers actions rather than your skills as survivor and it makes very little sense to "build-up" mistakes to pip(win) in the game. The overall theme is that your playing in a mindset that looks to omit error from your play rather than encourage mess up. On lesser tangent, It goes on to say that instant downs are very good difficulty modifiers in DBD, the other two being undetectable and aura-reading through walls.
On side note, Really good killers are killers that makes a lot of good reads in a row and to some extent, It forces pallet drops. self-care and healing is like the chew chew train that eventually goes off the railroad track. The slow generator are product of the constant insecurity of needing to heal. This is not to say that healing is completely useless, Resetting everyone health state is really good when your forced to use unsafe pallets as those pallets have large margin of error as they rely on your reaction to stun the killer on mid swing and survivor has a lot of latency issues with that but most of the time, majority of the loops are relatively safe such that playing injured isn't so much of drawback as it looks. its why you see so much Iron will compare to self-care. In reality, you can only waste pallets in two ways, getting hit and putting pallet down and healing instead of doing generator when your teammate loops. Healing/resetting is best used when a killer is not applying kill pressure which is rarely the case the better the killer player is.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
Well, you expect a pretty perfect play with these assumptions, and that is far from reality. Beside that, the new killers, including reworked killers, surely go into a direction that get increased ability of downing survivors. The game is not that survivor sided and error depending as it was. Downs are not mainly caused by mistakes anymore and the survivor skill level is pretty bad at the moment across all ranks
0 -
Selfcare is a waste of a perk slot. Even a dev wont change my mind on that fact. Theres medical kits so utilize that one perk slot w/ something that'll actually be worth while I say.
0 -
In all, a teammate should heal another teammate so selfcare shouldnt be used especially when theres such thing as a medical kit. Selfcare is just a dumb perk.
0 -
Sorry that perks scare you this much, the op said only 40 survivors ran unbreakable + ds together. So 10%, a tiny amount, and survivors do gens in killers faces regardless of if ds is active or not, and killers slug and survivors use UB regardless of if DS is in use, just killers trying to make things seem like buggers problems than they actually are.
1 -
Interesting data, I hope you continue on updating it, I'm really interested in the outcome.
To the self care talk, I'm surprised people on a forum were kinda civil to the topic and not instantly starting insulting.
My opinion on SC, it isn't a bad perk but I have never seen someone use it correctly, when I play survivor I usually see survivors self caring when there are perks like sloppy, thana, dying light (I rarely see it) but considering sloppy is what? 20% slower? Then that is 40 seconds of not doing anything.
I haven't used self care in a very long time, I actually feel like trying if I can actually get a value from it instead of just using a brown medkit.
When I play killer and I see survivors self care, I just hit them once and let them go away, I have never seen a player with self care not full health whenever they have "spare time", I love when people use self care when I'm playing killer, I get 32 free seconds.
0 -
Yep, the stronger killers force out error consistently and rapidly. I do not agree, you should always strive for perfect play even if you do not ever reach it and try to play the best of your ability with the tools that you are given on both sides. I also don't see any problem with matchmaking or survivor skill-level, mainly problems with emblems in defining winning/losing at times. The game is survivor sided, Its just that many survivors aren't very good, which as result makes a lot of killers really underwhelming for the most part against good teams.
0 -
Of course you should try to improve. But you say that the 'perfect gameplay' is the current state of the game. You said "In my opinion, every hit you take as survivor is a mistake on your part" and I think that is simply wrong.
A lot of killers are underwhelming might be correct, but definitely not those that got reworked. I hope you don't say "get your own opinion and not point at streamers" but several streamers are actually a pretty good reference. Like Tofu doesn't even kick gens most of the time because he applies more pressure by chasing efficiently or Otz struggling against multiple Unbreakable/DS/whatever and still manage to get the 4k. And they do this with every killer, not only the loop countering top list killers.
But this gets a bit offtopic, we were coming here by talking about Selfcare being bad/good which is already not related to the 9 top most used survivor perks. While looking at that list it is clear that 6 of these 9 perks are second chance perks, plus Spinechill and Iron Will to dodge the killer. And this is not just recently the meta for survivors. Which is actually probably the reason why killers needed this hard buff recently.
0 -
survivors get a lot of free information when it comes to powers: how long until someone falls asleep, how long until they're infected, if the obsession is being chased, etc. Information that the killer themselves don't even have access to most of the time.
....But killers don't get a timer for how long its been since they've unhooked a survivor. Thats one of the things a lot of people talk about when they talk about DS' performance without even activating: Not only do you need to not down and pick up that survivor again within that time limit (regardless of whether you've even hooked other survivors in the meantime,) but you need to REMEMBER how long its been since that survivor has been unhooked to boot.
Requiring that extra information WILL affect the way a killer plays. It can cause them to voluntarily sacrifice pressure and/or hooks for the hypothetical scenario of them getting punished for winning twice vs the same survivor *too quickly.* Half the time killers slug, they're pretty much forcing themselves to as it loses less pressure than eating a DS can, especially if they recover right into a strong loop.
Therefore, its strength exists as long as there is an obsession in the match, without even needing to be used. Not only that, but it only loses its strength after it has been used, and only for that survivor. If there is an obsession in the match, 1-4 of them could have DS after all, you have no way of knowing, and could eat up to 4.
2 -
A timer for DS to be available to see for killers? Dude, they do not even implement a totem counter, they will never do something like that. I can allready hear the survivor mains crying in the forums.
0 -
Hmmm I've been looking through my comment wondering where it was when I said these perks scared me yet I can't find it. Strange. And no, survivors who actually want to win the game wont do gens right in front of the killers face for no reason.
1 -
Good job disregarding the fact that only 10% of people this person faced ran DS + Unbreakable, if you downed someone who you think had DS there'd be a 1 in 10 chance they have UB too, that's miniscule and once again, killers using a "what-if" scenario to try and get perks nerfed.
0 -
This just got bumped to the top not long after I posted a similar post with numbers. Some of the perks are comparable but quite a bit different too - about 40% seems consistent even with my numbers though I set my max per perk to 25% just for simplicity with excel
0 -
Can't say I'm surprised by these results. Generally speaking these are regarded as the meta perks, your best chance of getting to red ranks are using these. I'm a red rank survivor and I often run 3 of these; self-care, dead hard, and iron will. I personally like to run those 3 meta perks and 1 not meta perk just for varieties' sake, usually We're Gonna Live forever for the faster bloodpoints, really wish they would add a gameplay benefit to WGLF though.
0 -
Ah but look at the historical data. Studies tell us that a micropenis is only found in 0.03% of people, now we're seeing someone's data showing it occuring at 333% the average rate, that's worrying!
1 -
Dang I must need glasses because yet again I cant see where I said It happens more than 10% of the time, nor can I see where I said it should be nerfed. The 1/10 chance of them having both perks is pretty flawed since only survivors who have either perk would make a bold play like that. Killers who see survivors making dumb plays right after they got off hook have to leave them slugged, like getting unhooked and running to another hooked person or jumping on a gen next to the killer, thus making value out of DS by even existing in the game. Some survivors don't even need to bring unbreakable because they rely on the killer just picking them up and having them "tunnel". This happens quite often.
0 -
I would buff Windows of Opportunity, so it does have no cooldown and you permanently see windows / pallets. It is a big help regards allready used pallets. I am pretty sure, much more beginners would use that perk.
0 -
Matchmaking doesn't exist and lower rank killers don't ever slug so it's usually a waste of a perk slot.
0 -
I don't need to make the stats when i actively see a self care losing the game for people. Gotta love using perks like Kindered, Bond, Empathy, Aftercare. Ever been on a hook watching the self care actively healing themselves while close by and hit struggle because they care more about a 32 second heal than rescuing someone? Killers not close, but let me heal when you get 2 hooked. Why would i need to record stats when I've seen this behavior for thousands of hours 🤣
0 -
That's what I talk about every time. People see a glimpse of a scene and think they know everything. I iterally said to you "it is not sufficent to point at a person just selfcaring and say 'there, bad'"
It still stands that it is not the perk but the player losing the game, and the player doesn't need selfcare to do so. I have seen people being injured and crouching around near my hook being afraid of the killer, just waiting for my second stage doing nothing. And people selfcaring to get me off the hook in time and take a protection hit after that. Which then is a good selfcare player. Again: the power of the perk is to heal yourself WHEN YOU NEED IT, not to heal yourself as often as possible. You CAN waste time and kill your team by selfcaring, but you could also simply do NOTHING instead, and there are enough bad survivors out there that do so.
EDIT: And you need to record it as I already said like a thousand times, once again for you: it is human habit to remember negative experience way better than positive. You can play with 10 selfcare users and one of them playing bad letting someone die on hook while selfcaring. Enough for a human to just say "there, AGAIN bad behaviour" and forget about the 9 other quite positive games, you never say "oh, the exceptional good selfcare player" for 9 times. Meaning your experience just blends out 90% of the "stats". You need to check after EVERY game who had selfcare, who played well and who not and then see IN TOTAL how many of the selfcare users actually played bad. You might think that you are the allknowing, never wrong judging pro player, but I can tell you you're not and you do judgements on the fly without all the facts necessary as everyone else, no matter how many hours you have
0 -
I see survivors stay on gens without ds or UB all the time, heck I do it, I don't get why you're implying only survivors with DS commit to gens.
Also no, killers don't have to slug survivors at all, ds is only an issue end game, if a 5 second stun is the reason you lose, you were going to lose anyway.
0 -
yeah but op post is looking at red ranks so the top rank so it doesnt matter about lower rank this is top ranks we are looking at like before ruin change 80% of RED ranks uses this perk so op is looking at what survivors in top rank run hence my surprise UB is lower in the red rank survivor list as i come across it alot in my red rank killer games.
1 -
All your suggestions seem great except the Unbreakable one, it seems like such an odd requirement for it.
0
