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So.. Pyramid head will soon be changed.
According to the Q&A stream Devs are monitoring PH. Most likely PH will get "minor changes" (still getting nurse flashbacks)...
Let us remember what so many people have complained about. I personally can only remember two specific things:
- Canceling Rites of Judgment (switching from M2 to M1) has a cooldown of 0.5 seconds. According to many people here this is much too low, because PH can simply fake his M2 without any punishment (0.5 seconds is not really noticeable). The legendary "get hit or get hit"-Situation was born.
- PH can negate a lot of perks because of his cages. Especially DS and BT users are NOT happy about that.
So what could they change to make people happy again? Increase the cooldown from 0.5 to 1 second? 1.5 second? 2 seconds? Yeah.. I don't know what they're planning, but a higher cooldown most likely means that he can no longer fake his ability. Since this is his TRUE STRENGTH, such a change would make him drop from tier A to tier C in no time (since I am not a friend of tiers this is only to illustrate that he would lose much of his viability).
So if the cooldown should be increased, then he should get something in return. I don't know what that could be, but just increasing the cooldown alone would kill PH. I don't even want to talk about the scond point. He has a unique ability and that is a good thing imo. But that alone doesn't make a good killer and I really hope that they don't mess him up.
What do you think about it? Will I soon be a sad PH main or will they find a good solution without ruining it completely?
Comments
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If they take away his ability to negate cocky DS plays, he'll immediately be F tier.
73 -
thinking being unable to spam his power (ala Deathslinger) for free zoning is good
next you're going to tell me spirit has consistent counterplay
Edit: I worded this weird like a goomba, I want the spam changed, I mean lol
Post edited by BigTimeGamer on50 -
I believe since PH isn't nurse tier levels of good, he won't be butchered. I understand survivors don't like the m1/m2 switch, but come on how often are you running straight to a pallet :/. I'm hoping they balance his add-ons instead of his power tbh.
8 -
Increasing his cancel time would be good. If the survivor dodges, you can still hit them with his power if you're good enough, it's just hard.
6 -
He is pretty known to be the 3rd best killer. So a big nerf wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. His add ons I find don't do much other than range, he's still 3rd best even without add ons.
Plus he counters survivor crutches, and we all know how the devs respond to something that effects the survivor perk meta.
26 -
I don't think they can change him without upsetting one side. Both sides will never be happy with anything. The way these devs operate, I'll guarantee they are going to please the majority.
13 -
Each time devs tpuch something im more confident that they are surv sided as hell.
32 -
If they increase his switch delay then I'd think they would have to increase his base range on his ranged attack as a trade off as he would be too weak without it.
The trade off would mean his binary pallet/window play would be heavily weakened but his more skillful long range attacks would be more viable.
7 -
Idc about anything ultimately other than the cooldown part, it’s unfun and ######### to go against and doesn’t take any skill, the 0.5s doesn’t even work properly anyway. I’d give him a 2s cooldown coming out of M2, maybe lower the M2 attack cooldown to 2.5s, maybe slightly increase his turning holding the M2, and rework/buff the dogshit purple addons. Rn the optimal way to play him is to not even use his power, and that’s just stupid, my changes will incentivise actually using the M2 more with skill based gameplay I’d say, and he’d actually be fun to go against in a chase maybe.
i played against otzdarva’s PH a few days ago and actually had fun, he was using his M2 rather than zoning and it was genuinely enjoyable. I’ve always said this killer is salvageable and hearing the comment from the dev stream about changes has got me super excited
3 -
So we're taking a killer whose only strengths are his ability to stop loops and ignore DS...
....and removing his ability to stop loops and to ignore DS...
...genius.
72 -
You will be a very sad PH main soon.
8 -
3rd best? Spirit, Nightmare and Nurse are above him in my opinion. Billy and Oni both have more mobility and insta down so I'd also place them above but that's debatable. Hag and Huntress are also at the top. Don't get me wrong, he's strong but not too strong. Also it's not that hard to avoid getting afflicted by torment, he can't see the cage and cage spawn at the opposite side of the map so he's gonna waste lot of time trying to tunnel.
17 -
I'm pretty stoked for them to gut him since he's one of like 3 Dbd dream characters for me and that's what they do lol
2 -
Nurse, Spirit, Freddy, Hag, Billy, Oni, & to some extent Huntress are still considered better than PH. The devs now steer heavily away from one-sided nerfs, unless it was broken to begin with like with insta-medkits. Also doesn't Freddy counters BT when a survivor is asleep?
9 -
Absolutely no one from BVHR has said any of this. This is all purely speculation. The only thing they said is that there would be some changes. That doesn't even necessarily mean nerfs.
15 -
You sure last time nurse and Billy got changes
12 -
Here's a change I think wouldn't kill him, but make him still viable.
Remove the 110% but, increase the time it takes to take your sword out of the ground. (by like 2 seconds or something.) that way there's a punishment for spamming it but you lose less distance.
This could be better, but I think it would make sense and a good trade off.
1 -
define counterplay, plz.
2 -
You can't counter a killer its the power role (in theory) maybe you can soft counter but thats it.
1 -
There's also the issue that caging an enemy feels like a massive disadvantage, and most of the time it's better for you to keep a tormented survivor until you can just mori them.
13 -
i think that after picking up his sword, he should way like 1.5s to 2s before being able to M1. But, to compensate, make it so that missing an M2 doesnt punish PH as much. Missing an M2 will give PH a shorter animation.
6 -
On what world is he considered the third best killer?
To answer op, that is NOT a strength, it's a crutch. He should get nothing in return for removing something that should have never been implemented in the first place. At most, the cooldown for failing an M2 attack should otherwise be shortened (since it's really too long).
6 -
And then ppl will complain because PH would be able to spam POTD. His cooldown (~3 Seconds) is that long for a reason.
4 -
He's not the only killer with a spammable cancel (see Deathslinger for example) and BHVR seems fine with that kind of stuff.
I really think they won't touch his m2, but they'll do something to his cages.
2 -
If they increase the cancel time, they need to decrease the attack time of his ability. You literally can't hit a survivor who is not locked in animation or stuck in a tight space with his ability.
If survivors want to increase the CD, then his ability needs to be instant damage.
8 -
Oh damn I though most people thought he was the third best. His ability to delete DS and an incredibly powerful chase power goes hand in hand together and allows you to beat some very good teams if you're good enough.
I could sorta see how hag could be better. But billy isn't, against good squads its hard to actually get downs, Oni most certainly isn't as his early game screws him over and his ability can be countered by the survivors playing smart, and Freddy certainly isn't as his early game isn't that good and snares don't down quick enough to keep up with gens. Yea you can counter BT but that doesn't mean anything when DS exists.
Nurse and spirit are certainly better though.
3 -
Why does a killer need "consistent counterplay"? If its consistent then the survivors basically get to dictate how the encounter goes. That's what makes bad killers no? You've got to look at the whole picture.
32 -
rip pyramid and all the points I put into him for p3 all perks
10 -
Take away my chant behavior and I riot one man army style I'm joking don't banned me.
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Tbh I don't mind a killer not having consistent counterplay, but you gotta admit that killers like Deathslinger, PH and Spirit who have little to no indication as to when they're gonna use their powers are going to be more annoying to play against. As a Survivor, playing against something like a Wraith at a fair pallet (like the car pallet in front of the school at Badham) is fun. We can both try to mindgame each other, and do fakeouts.
I think the issue just comes from the lack of showing that they're going to be using their power. A Deathslinger can practically instashoot you if he's good, and as a survivor, it kinda feels like you just got juped because you had no opportunity to really try and outplay him. Same with Spirit and her ability to stand still at loops, or Pyramid Head putting his sword in the ground and setting up a 'Get hit from M1 or get hit from the ground attack' scenario. None of them really take much of Survivor's looping skills in question. (Which, I should clarify- I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I actually don't really mind. Those killers are really fun and rewarding to play, and do require some skill and practice. However, the way they work does make it frustrating to play against, which is where I think a lot of the complaint comes from. It does really suck to feel like you got punished for playing well- and it's a feeling both sides get from time to time.)
2 -
Exactly.
10 -
F to my original comment, seems to have been deleted...
Personally, I'm okay with killers not having consistent counterplay. Killers like Spirit and PH are really fun to play imho. However, I think the issue comes from their ability to shut down the best defense a survivor has (loops) so quickly, and with what feels like nothing a Survivor can really do about it. 'PH put his sword in the ground? Well, I can either get hit with the shockwave or get hit with an M1. Eitherway, I will get hit. Deathslinger quick sniped you? Well, he does it so fast you can't really predict it. Spirit is standing still? Well, there's a chance that she's phasing, and a chance that she's not. Either way, I have no idea what I can really do besides walk away and hope she either doesn't hear me or isn't actually faking it.'
It's just frustrating to play against, which is where the complaints come from. It's not fun to be put in a situation where it's a lose-lose, and both sides have things like that.
4 -
Unless you run into the goo on purpose you won't get tormented and thus he won't be able to cage you. At best I've seen 3-4cages in a single match at worst 1 or 2. And going for cage leave all other survivor free to do gen and you can also bodyblock if he's trying to tunnel.
"But billy isn't, against good squads its hard to actually get downs," Literally all killer will struggle if they face a strong squad what is that low level argument?
4 -
A good pyramid will get you tormented if he needs to, plus you only need about 4 cages to delete everyones DS and most of the time you'll only need to avoid DS about 1 or 2 times a match. Going for cages leaves survivors open yea, but only 2 people are on gens, 1 saved and the other is being tunneled. If you get that person out of the match early you've won the game already.
Literally all killer will struggle if they face a strong squad
You wonder why Spirit and Nurse are the 2 best killers? and people always complain about Doc, PH, Slinger? They're the only people who can get downs against good survivors consistently. Some better than others.
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PH can't force you to walk into his goo. Want to use his Rites of Judgement and Torment someone? Gotta add 1-2 more loops just to place that goo because you go at 92% movement speed.
Those killer you listed are strong because you can't just mindlessly loop them and you got to think how to loop them which survivor aren't used to because running regular M1 killer is the same.
2 -
Personally I'd be entirely for making his POTD significantly easier and more rewarding to hit, as well as having it cause torment, as a tradeoff to losing the spam of his ROJ. Hitting really fun POTD shots is what makes him so fun to me, so I hope they can keep that aspect of his kit (and fix how it works vertically because that's just pissy).
In terms of cages, I'm not entirely sure what they can do except make the spawn random, make sure he isn't notified of the location of someone when they're saved from a cage, and anyone in a cage can't have their auras revealed. This'd stop the pretty hardcore tunneling that many PH players like to do (hook to cage to hook).
Pyramid Head main, but I'm very bad in terms of thinking of game balance suggestions so apologies.
5 -
You can literally just walk through the pallet at the loop with rites and at max it will only be looped 1 more time if not 0 due to your ranged attack. Other than that its get tormented or give him a free hit.
Them killers are strong because they create guessing situations for the survivors that they will eventually lose, similar to a TL wall.
1 -
Id actually like that, if his Rites was much easier to use and get a hit off of so he doesn't have to bait as much. Similar to a short range huntress that goes through walls.
All I want personally is for him to still be at least top 5 worthy. I like having him very strong.
3 -
Yeah, me too. I really wanna be able to still recognise the killer I'm playing but at the same time I realise the several issues there are facing him and that they gotta be fixed for all players to have fun (unless it's a bad PH because I can read them like a book and laughing at them is funny).
1 -
If they nerf his zoning, they will have to reduce the missed attack stun and give him a flick on the m2. Right now, it's too easy to dodge and too punishing when you miss.
1 -
I'm happy to see PH getting changes. I don't really like playing him because he let almost no chances to survivors, and his power isn't that hard to understand. I'm also disappointed that Torment isn't that much exploited and that Punishment itself is so strong that it's just making Torment looks like a joke.
If they nerf Punishment to buff Torment, that would be perfect. I also don't really see the problem of having a killer going a few tiers down, as long as his power is still playable. Low tier killers have to be played with a different approach and I think it's good to have someo f them.
By the way I'm gonna mention it before getting thrown into a fireplace, but I main killer. I just want the game to be fair and the other side to have a chance when it comes to using their skills in chases (yeah, I say that while I main slinger but I might switch to Blight anyway). It's the main reason why I don't like playing Freddy, PH, Spirit. They are unforgiving for survivors and easy to play with a huge window for errors.
Edited because I accidently posted without finishing the post
4 -
I don't think that cancel cooldown increase will drop him that hard. He still has the ability to down people stuck in an animation and force people to leave the loop
1 -
How can I get a reimbursement for all killers purchased (cosmetics..) please ?
I have a Nurse that is only used for the top 10 players in the game, but for normal people it is unplayable ! I'm not talking about the other killers who are useless to me too...
Nerve the PH? Months after it comes out.. what do you call it ?😕
3 -
good :^)
0 -
- PH can negate a lot of perks because of his cages. Especially DS and BT users are NOT happy about that.
Wooow killers get to have fun. Just another case of survivors being entitled babies. DS is toxic and unfun to play against as the killer but no one seems to care about killer mains having fun. You know without them you can't play the game right?
6 -
Welp, better use all my 4th anniversary cakes before judgement day.
1 -
Well his biggest problem is is that faking the power is more effective then using the power like #########.
3 -
They cant touch cages, DS works on getting grabbed. At most maybe uncage activates DS and BT.
0 -
Do yourself a huge favor, and actually READ my post instead of throwing a tantrum. Notice the "cocky DS plays" part (it's not tunneling if they are idiots and force/bait me to go after them - if they don't want to be tunneled, they should be running away). Only when you read what I actually said are you allowed to have an opinion on it, and potentially throw another tantrum of uninformed ambiguity.
Hop to it. :)
3 -
All they need to do is if they want to mess with the zoning they need to make tormenting and his punishment of the damned more consistent to make use of, otherwise he will frankly suck with his current drawbacks..not a fan of bhvr touching the better killers but..sadly one side of the community holds the majority vote..not exactly fair but it's how it is..that being said if they somehow manage to expand pyramid heads tool kit so he can have more outplay potential I'm for it , I get tired of never feeling rewarded for well calculated shots
1
