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So.. Pyramid head will soon be changed.
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Ofc as always, same people complaining. If they only spent as much energy to play they could get good.
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Only against noobs who have no clue how to play. Did you upload your videos yet showcasing your billy skills that was so ez to pull off?
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This is probably wishful thinking on my end but I hope they change some of his addons for the better, especially the purple ones because he really gets screwed over in that regard. Although it'll be most likely that they'll slap on an extra cooldown penalty for using rites of judgement, I don't really see them giving him any compensation for it.
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I dont mind tht he can counter meta perks thats fine but being able use m2 only to switch to m1 almost immediately leaves no mind game whatsoever on loops. It literally takes away survivors only safety from the killer. All survivors have is windows and pallets. I dont mind getting outplayed it happens but your only tactic is keep distance or pre-throw every pallet which is just unfun, theres simply no skill to playing ph. Also being tormented should really go away after every hook state and dont get me started on deathslinger and the fact freddy doesnt have any slowdown from setting blood snares.
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Thanks for the constructive and mindful reply. Yeah i can totally see where people want to be able to use their skills to outwit a killer and yes those killers can negate that to an extent. But also key word when you mentioned deathslinger is "if hes good" and i think thats where its okay if the killer can do some crazy things. Because it requires skill. Yeah it can be frustrating for sure but Pyramids whole thing with his power is to not be looped. He punishes it with the trail and his ground power. Which can be dodged easily. Which i think is why people tend to cancel it and just M1 for the guaranteed hit. If you go for a pallet or window its kinda similar to doing that with huntress.
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One thing I always wanted was when survivors are hit with the ranged attack they get auto tormented.
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Yeah, but I have no idea why survivors have such a butcher boner for killers that are fun to play against? Old Freddy(I get this one was more killers but survivors also complained.), Spirit, and now PH. When I play against PH I overjoy because of how fun it is to dodge his rites of judgement and how much dopamine I get from playing against and with him.
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Now we take a step back and read this again and take a deep breath.
We are now down to complain that some players were able to outsmart others by doing something that is hard to do? I mean, one could say they are playing good and use their tools smartly, but why bother, I guess.
And because the others cannot always avoid getting hit like killer players are not always able to hit the others, we need to increase even more the restrictions to the killer players that the others get better chances of avoiding their attacks?
Really?
It is an interesting idea to signal even more when an invisible guy gets invisible or maybe where he is currently at, maybe we should keep the red stain visible even when the killer is invisible; we could use that also to signal where a nurse is jumping to or where ranged killers are aiming at.
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In my PH experience cages are not supposed to be the anti ds or anti BT hook. You use them to speed up things and get into action quicker, they're more a mid-late game utility. As his power nerf I don't care, the fact that he can attack trough walls would still be strong (even more paired with I'm all ears) and the skillcap would be even higher. So yea I'm ready to play the nerfed pyramid!
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How on Earth is his "true strength" faking it? He's literally a smaller-ranged Huntress who can hit through walls, like a Nurse/Huntress hybrid. His "faking it" (aka getting ready to do it but failing to make the right call on the survivor 90% of the time) is the only actually broken thing about him. There desperately needs to be an actual cooldown to enable any real counterplay.
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I dont mind the devs touching the M2 thing a little, as I use Pyramid Head more than any other killer. I like the big triangle boy. But if they touch the Cages, and make them susceptible to the normal Hook mechanics allowing for those DS/BT/Insert-unhooking-perks, I am so not playing him ever again. He isn't that OP, high ranks almost never step on the trails, thus making him unable to use his special hook.
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Exhaust perks are meant to be second chances in a chase. The reason why people use Dead hard is because its most universal exhaust perk with no real requirements beyond being injured. If anything, Balance landing, Lithe, Sprint burst and Head on need some serious buffs because they really suck for second chance chase perks. Head on has 3 second timer to use it and it practically makes Quick&Quiet mandatory, Sprint burst wastes so much time on walking, Lithe has no on/off button and it disables your ability to window loop+you need good angle to make use of the speed and Balance landing always needed levitation and it was never good exhaust perk beyond its stagger passive that created artificial infinities on some maps before the perks total destruction.
If I had to take a guess for why they're thinking of changing pyramid head, its probably because his killrate is highly inflated because his cages completely remove any fear of DS and Borrow time and those perks by sheer existence prologue survivors time in a match and he has no fear of those perks so he can eliminate survivors very quickly out of the match. Speaks volumes for how good those survivor perks are I guess. Maybe they'll make cages work with survivor perks but than what would torment affliction do?
Billy had weakness, if he miss chainsaw or hit a wall, he would suffer a cooldown and he had pretty long charge time on his chainsaw. Its just that there he had thompson mix and carburetor tuning guide to make the cooldown almost zero and charge was significantly reduced. Now a days billy feels like a chore to play, his only reliable charge time reducation add-on turns him into 110% joke killer and he no longer has cooldown reducation add-on. His Iri add-on are pure jokes, like who uses iri brick that for some reason has drawback of requiring 2 seconds of chainsaw to activate and apex muffler is silly. Lopros chain could easily be valuable iri add-on if it did not have drawback of giving you speed limiter after breaking a pallet. Barely see billy get played now a days. If only billy had add-on that did not cripple him to the bone. I miss facing confident billy as survivor.
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A second chance perk that has zero counterplay and can activate at the start of the trial delaying the critical first hook for a killer is a little overpowered no? not to mention Dead hard undoes M1 killer mindgames since you get the distance back, and makes any killer that requires aiming less fun to use e.g. Huntress, deathslinger, nurse since their precise aim is nullified at the touch of a button.
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Im going to breakdown what you said into pieces:
"The Spirit does not get this privilege, and neither of the two can see each other while she's phasing. If she's standing still why would you walk back to her in the first place? It's a fully 3D game, there's at least 2 other different directions you could head to to throw her off."
She can hear you, thats all she needs, and with Stridor, you will always make sound. As to standing still, YOU DONT KNOW IF SHES PHASING, and you cant just move away if you are at a pallet, she will just phase when she see you walk off, how do you not understand this.
"If she's not phasing, she's a 110% killer. If she's phasing, she can't see you. You get a very very obvious warning when she's phasing in the vicinity, is it so difficult to be stealthy if you don't feel confident enough to tank a Spirit?"
She can hear while phasing, with even a basic pair of headphones, a mediocre spirit will hit you. As to stealth, it doesn't work in this game, all you achieve by hiding is wasting your team's time to get stuff done and are effectively a 3v1. Anyone who isnt being chased or doing gens is only helping the killer. Doing what you suggest is what baby megs do.
"Once again, for some reason you bring up guesswork which apparently you seem to hate, but also claim to be very good at? How can you tell if a Trapper is herding you to a trap? How do you plan your route if you haven't seen him set a trap all game? Every second a Spirit stands still is one more second you can gain distance or confuse her."
Stop. Bringing. Up. Trapper.
It does nothing for your case, but lets go over this again: If a trapper has a trap at Loop A and I am chased to it, decent trappers will try and lead you into his trap by forcing you around the end where its placed. You can look for it while looping (which isn't as hard as you claim) or note how he plays, does he respect pallets? does he bloodlust them needlessly? If so, you are probably at a trapped loop. Spirit can sit still and wait to see what you do. If you stay, she can phase around the loop and hit you. If you run off, she can phase to catch up, the ground she can cover vs. the ground you make by holding W only matters if there is another loop close-by, and at best, the process repeats. AKA: You guessed correctly.
"With how many safe tiles there are in the game it's really not that hard to get somewhere where you'll be able to react if you hear her footsteps, ESPECIALLY considering all the other points I already mentioned."
Tiles are not only map dependent, they are RNG dependent, and even a half decent Spirit can ignore it. The footsteps "tip" is not practical, if she is close enough where you can hear her footsteps (which you can't, they are bugged atm) she is going to hit you.
And the bit that made me decide to stop replying to you when I read it:
"If she sees you and you're injured why didn't you heal instead of doing whatever you were doing?"
If you are the type of player who heals the moment they can instead of doing a gen or anything else productive, then you must not understand this game.
im done replying to you lmao, btw i used to main Spirit for a long time before i realized how easy it was, so ik what im talking about, not just some "salty survivor main"
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One of Tr3's recent videos, I think he hit the nail on the head. He was getting looped like crazy as blight and he said
"This is what survivors want all killers to be. Completely at their mercy"
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Dam I can't wait for this update
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Honestly, I just want some perks to work with his cages. Like Kindred, it's not terrible and helps with solo queue players.
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why do you think its called second chance perk? It wouldn't be second chance perk if it did not save your life. They aren't meant to have counter-play. Its not about how many second chance perks survivors have. its about how often you get a chance to mindgame/capitalize on survivor. This is partly to why dead hard is best exhaustion perk because you get to play the game normally, if you make a good read, you keep your dead hard, but if you make wrong read, your still safe. Those other exhaustion perks also erase mistakes, but different types, for example sprint burst removes your ability to be unsafe in deadzone, Lithe allows you to play unsafe pallets with opportunity to outplay bloodlust if you make a correct read, you can get to another ultra-safe pallet and put it down to remove it. Head on allows you to use lockers as jukes without risk that you get pulled out of a locker, balance landing is only exhaustion perk that works in middle of a chase, its purely a chase extension perk but its situational. You can clearly see why good players use dead hard over other versions. Dead hard is like skill based Old MoM.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
So its fine for things on the survivor side to have no counterplay but everything on the killer sider needs plenty?
And you say mindgame/capitalize, yet thats the point all these second chance perks stop you from doing that. Mindgamed the survivor and closed distance allowing the hit? Dead hard to get the distance back. Caught them out of position with a stealth killer? Sprint burst to safety. Then you got all the others on top of that, DS, unbreakable, deliverance, adrenaline etc
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Survivors expect easy mode. And not learning how to adapt. They want cookie cutter killers so they can say " I earned my rank" even though the Devs hand out the survivor ranks through perpetual killer "balances". Remember this is 4v1 in the game and out of the game. To every 1 killer saying "Hey what about this issue with this"
You have 4 survivors crying about a mechanic on a survey that they dont like until changes are implemented.
The PH change is not a good quality of life change. Just as a nerf to prayer beads, a cooldown to Billy, a cooldown to the nurse, and so on and so forth.
I will say it again. Survivors want easy mode and will harass surveys until they get what they want changed.
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That's why they buffed the ######### out of Doctor, Leatherface and Freddy.
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well I guess people stop using PH when this happens.
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Doctor and LF are still mediocre against good survivors and Freddy is overrated.
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Wait, do you think it's actually difficult to play PH with his current tactic? There's not much skill to it, and it's guaranteed. Either animation-lock into hit, or go fo the easiest m1 of your life. At least survivors would be able to mindgame his alt attack if he couldn't borderline-instantly m1.
Seriously, there's not much skill to just zoning with PH. At least Slinger requires your to be a good shot. PH just gets you without a chance to avoid it and with little to no skill
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I disagree. Doctor's map pressure isn't that great but his detection plus chase potential makes him pretty damn strong, and Leatherface doesn't have much map pressure himself but he is insanely deadly. I also find Freddy to be very, very strong. Good chase potential and excellent map pressure.
But I understand where you are coming from.
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it is funny survivors shouldn't have counterplay but killer need counterplay how that work?
this 4v1 game and these rule sounds like oxymoron.
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well think about what the purpose of stealth is. Its purpose is to hit people out of position from people not noticing you/lack of tr and sprint burst is a perk that erases that mistake so its completely anti-stealth with a cooldown of course. Looping is natural counter to all killers and Dead hard makes loops that are strong, even stronger, while it does not change weaker unsafe loops, for that you must use Lithe and make an accurate pallet slide where the killer misreads. I am not going argue if these second chance perks are fair or not but I think these perks promote more healthy gameplay styles from killer and discourage the classic forced out of position at hook gameplay for killer.
If your referring to counter-play within killer perks, no I do not think killer perks or perks in general need counter-play, they're suppose to self-imposed advanges/disadvantages(for the other side) that both sides are forced to play around in a given match. I mean If i was inventing a perk like Beast of prey where entire objective of this perk is to hide the killers red light, I would just make it hide your red light when your in a chase, but maybe at the time of creation of this perk, they thought this was godlike and they put a drawback that you need to be in bloodlust 1 and it turns out that the perk is terrible with such a drawback as are many killer perks that make little sense to begin with. I don't know anything about Pyramid head or why they think he needs changing but you can always use your intuition to take logical guesses. I definitely lose a lot to Pyramid head but that is expected as he is very strong killer if he plays his cards right. Maybe they think his cards are a bit too good. who knows?
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God if they do I'm going uninstall the game feels alot like Evolved and other 1v4 games.
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Actually I think while the 0.5s cancel of m2 seems to be the problem, it's the fact he is actually catching you while using it (4.4m/s?) which is unlike any other ranged killer attack (correct me if I'm wrong) - should this not be reduced to around Demogorgon speed while he charges his shred attack?
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Not gonna lie I'd be quite happy with giving him more of a cooldown for canceling maybe 1 second full not too sure about any more than that, once he pulls up and you're about to reach a window you're forced into a stupid "guess better" situation where you have 0 control over whether you get hit or not unless you have dead hard. With a slightly shorter cooldown it at least leads to less dammed if you do dammed if you don't situations at windows.
Also him countering DS is laughably unfun for survivors playing against him, if you get basement'd against him and he wants you dead there is nothing you can do about it, BT won't save you for long if he just body blocks you on the way up and hits last second (He can also bring the undetectable addon to not even give you that chance of making it out). If you step in his judgment against a fair amount of pyramid heads you are getting tunneled down and dying almost consistently, in one day I ran against 7 of them back to back and 5/7 tunneled one dude in our match to the ground.
So yeah I do think they should change the parts of his kit where players can abuse him for cheap hits/kills. To change the tunnel aspect maybe add a cooldown after a survivor is unhooked/uncaged before you can send them to the cage/execute them so at least they can take up some time being slugged instead of them insta dying and make DS count activate from being caged.
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I'm loving the high IQ replies in this thread. It feels like everyone is Einstein and knows best.
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If players rely on PH being able to psych out survivors to make the killer worth using, then his viability is already pure crap.
A killer's viability should come from his ability to execute kills and abilities without pulling this "just kidding, you're fkked" crap. So if PH's viability relies on a fragment of his usage, then he's already broken.
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"a good pyramid head will get you tormented". Yes your right, that's why they are good, and good survivors can do well at avoiding the goo. I think a discussion about his m2 attack is fair enough but his torment (therefore cages) is fine
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Because running around a pallet in a circle then dropping it when the killer gets close is so skillful right? Running a trapper, wraith, pig etc from safe pallet to safe pallet and having dead hard ready to get your distance back if you fall for a mindgame. High level play right there.
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Problem with LF is that its been proven multiple times that survivors can drop every pallet early and still win so long as the others are on gens and not wasting time.
Maybe it depends on the map. On Ormond for example he’s really crippled.
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Yeah his add-ons either suck or are amazing.
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#whattaboutthis
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Yeah we just keep ripping on Spirit/Pyramidhead and completely ignore everything on the survivor side. That’s how the game comes fair and balanced ^_^
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I remember you from months ago, what changed?
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Don't forget deathslinger.
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"0.5 second cooldown"
I really wish people would stop spreading this. Yes, I know it's on the wiki, but it's still WRONG. It's 1 second. Double the length of the misinformation. Still short, yes, but a second is a decent amount of time in DBD.
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oh yes you know billy, huntress, oni, demo, nurse all killers that are strong and have fun counterplay
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Yeah, it we could contasntly whine and complain with no real focus.
This has nothing to do with other issues in DBD, it is about PH. Stay on topic or don't bother, please. I'm sick and tired of everyone whattabouting and stalling any and all discussion. If you want to discuss the stupidity that is holding W, or what you consider to be easy about looping, go open a topic on it. Otherwise, let's talk about the skill cap and skill floor of PH and where the problems come from.
Personally, he's pretty easy if you just go for zone-into-m1 or animation-locked hits. There's also no real counterplay to it because of the lack of cooldown and the ease of hitting. However, going for non-animation-locked hits is actually very difficult, and I respect PH's that do. His power, when used that way, is very tricky but certainly still achievable.
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If they change his cancel, then his m2 needs to come out a lot faster so you dont only use it at vaults( this ######### should torment too). The young boy PH has only been out since june n he's about to get butchered.
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@Peanits He’s not getting nerfed is he? Please don’t let casual survivors make you butcher him :(
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My issues were with Billy and his ever-present pressure. Full map traversal and instadowns, along with some add ons that allowed him to spam his chainsaw with no punishment.
Neither Pyramid nor Spirit has that. Also they have punishments for spamming their power.
The argument here is about “no counterplay”. It’s a different argument. It also reeks of hypocrisy. Nobody wants to use M1 killers, get looped around safe pallet after safe pallet after safe pallet by a swf on Ormond with stretched res. Mindgame them at shack or a loop to close distance and they all have dead hard for distance to gain it back anyway. All of that it “no counterplay” but nobody says anything.
Survivors are right it is absolutely more fun to play against a typical old fashioned M1 killer than Deathslinger, Pyramidhead or Spirit because the survivors control the chase. Theres nothing wrong with them stating that and I can see their point. However its not fun to play as those killers against good survivors with stacked second chance perks, the 1 power role needing to rely on the 4 to make mistakes in order to win. Its much more fun to play killers who have an equal chance in a chase or control a chase.
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It isn't the survivors fault the devs refuse to add a different objective. Survivors have been wanting that ever since the game came out gens are boring and most survivors get their enjoyment out of chases. Therefore killer that make us say "He used his power I'm dead" instead of killers that make us say "Oh I should have dodged better or looped better" I love killers like huntress and demo that have great chase interaction. What I don't like is killers that just get free value from their power and puts you in lose/lose situations.
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And look how many of them were in the tournament. None. I think Billy could have done good but still he wasnt used..
Notice the common theme among the most picked killers...
Nurse, Spirit, Hag, PyramidHead.
4 killers that can’t be looped indefinitely and don’t rely on survivor mistakes in order to get a hit.
Because when you use a killer that needs the survivors to misplay, wasting time being forced to kick pallets is not viable when you know for a fact this is a team on discord and the rest are sat on gens.
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I think they should increase how long it takes to exit the power but not how long it takes to enter it. I also believe he should move slightly slower whilst transitioning between the two. At the moment he seems to be able to fake his ability with no loss of speed or distance.
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not every game is gonna be tourney squads
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