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Please for the all the high rank killers, Please nerf the Small PP Combo.
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Yeah not tunneling wont counter the perk you gotta just "play differently" like a few killer mains told me when I ask what countess spirit have lol. "You just want to bully killers and not change your playstyle."
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Lol. Why don't you save him when i'm chasing other survivor? Also, he has fully healed, and working on gen, and you're expecting me just to leave him?
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That's why people say it's not an anti-tunnel perk, but an anti-momentum perk.
Sure, you can play around it, but this kind of perk should not exist in this game. There's literally no reason to punishes a player that did well.
I don't mind if they actually add an anti-tunnel mechanics in the base game, if that system can truly differentiate the difference between "tunnelling" or "just doing well"
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That's because the developers decided to make killers unique with their own powers, but made survivors husks you slap perks onto. There is literally no difference between any survivor, apart from how they look. I would love for them to have taken a bit of time to give each survivor a unique ability that nobody else can have, or at the very least, make them better with their own perks. Literally any reason at all to pick a survivor other than Blendette because she's the most feasible when it comes to staying out of the killer's sight.
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You did not do well, your power is just too overpowered. The chase revolves around two tactics. Brute Force and Mindgames. Small loops require brute force, bigger ones you're better off mindgaming, or else you'd lose much time. And mindgames revolve around a win/lose situation. If you fail a mindgame as killer, the survivor has the upper hand, if you succeed, the survivor is yours. Basic mindgames will confuse most average players, and your power is still there to help you.
PH eliminates all of that. There's no mindgame, you will just always hit. It's not you doing well, it's you playing an overpowered killer with no counter.
And I still rest my case that DS is an anti-tunneling perk. I try not to tunnel in my games as killer, and I only get DS's every 5th match or so..
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Its tilting but if a killer has to bring an ebony and has to tunnel, I know I'm clearly better than them if that's what they have to do to get a kill. That has nothing to do with point I made though. If you're trying to compare them, it's not the same so you failed there.
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Not sure what the screenshot is trying to show. You only played against one person with ds/unbreakable. Meanwhile you had 2 selfish carers (arguably the best killer perk in the game)
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did you miss the part where i said i play *mainly survivor?*
if you feel the need to run a build to be 100% untouchable, you have a small pp
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But at the same time, you can blame tunneling/camping on survivors, as well.
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Yo original Poster here, for the new commenters, My point is that while the picture shows one DS + Unbreakable Combo, In my mind while in the trial I was scared because all of them could have run the combo! My anxiety was full blown telling me that every survivor are just gonna get up or 99% so fast to save Unbreakable if I don't eat the DS. That's what I want gone as a Killer, the invincibility phase survivors have getting unhooked.
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While other's point is that I run the Ruin + Undying combo, Survivors can just get a map or get Small Game/Detective's hunch to counter me, while a Killer What can I get to counter FOUR potential DS + Unbreakable combo? Should I just get a dang Mori every game to counter it then?
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Nice strawman. You agree that the combo is dumb. This thread is about asking for it to be fixed, not for you to tell OP to git gud.
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The new small PP build: Undying + Ruin can be countered just by bringing a Map, Bringing Small Game or Detective's Hunch. What can I do to counter the Survivor's small pp then? This is what my original point is, at least as Killers give us the means to counter the DS + Unbreakable combo.
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I see 5 Meta Andy’s in that screenshot.
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Original Poster again, I think this Pic is more likely to prove my point, 5 Minutes in trial 3 Gens gone because I sacrificed them committing to the hooks instead of rushing to them and leaving down survivors. I won this match because I was a Blight in Temple of Purgation. Do you guys think any Killers except the viable ones with no add ons could have won this game? I ate 3 out of 4 DS this match out of fear of unbreakable.
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If you don't tunnel, the DS is then useless for the survivors, unless the last one alive in some circomstances. But however, i have a question for you, how do survivors counter :
- pink mori
- make your choice
- one shot hatchets
- infinite Myers' P3
- haunted ground
etc...
They don't have anything to counter this... =)
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Self care is actually borderline powerful, it's just most people don't know when it's appropriate to use. For stealth survivors you can lose a killer by stealthing, while they look around you heal, then lead them again.
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Yep, let's nerf one of the combos that prevent killers from playing like jerks and abusing every survivor in the game, amazing idea.
I'm sorry for the killers who play for fun and like to have fair and long games with survivors to later on get hit by this, but I don't feel sorry for the ones who are sweating all over their body over a simple match every game.
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The primary issue is that nerfing the combo would require the perks to be nerfed, and neither DS nor Unbreakable need nerfed.
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I must be the unluckiest survivor dead cause I never get slugged when running Unbreakable. Literally ever.
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Just to humour you.
Point 1 and 3 are a few of the most complained things from the game here on the forum (when no recent problem takes topspot) and the vocal majority of neither side thinks that they are healthy and have to be reworked/removed.
Point 2 is the only incentive from the devs on Killerside to diminish tunneling and has conditions you can work around. (Yes, I know ,unhook in the killers tr which is unadvisable but then bt would counter again.)
Point 4 needs so much time against survivor that know not to feed Mikey that it is possible to have all gens done by that point. Even more so on indoor maps.
Point 5 is the only one where I can't think of something from the top of my head during lunch break except don't do bone or don't get caught but those are dumb. Due to undying totems have become more popular again. But the advice would maybe be dont do bones when no distinct hex is up since lit totems can't spawn noed?
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Hex perks are for gambling. Tinkerer is fun, I agree, but its useless in chases. So, if you pick a weaker killer, it will be useless. If survivors take Spine Chill, you wont surprise them. Only BBQ is something useful in your arsenal. Also, you didnt take any add-ons.... , so what are you trying to prove?
Slap on Rancor/NOED, Murmur, Bamboozle, POP and good add-ons, and come back again. :^)
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This combo is essential when you get tired of getting tunnelled and/or slugged. Maybe I'd like to say f- you to the killer for tunnelling me off hook. Maybe I don't feel like crawling on the ground until you feel like picking me up. I'm playing a game, and these perks are only equipped to counter your toxic playstyle.
And if you hook someone, then hook someone else, then end up finding that first survivor...what, you have to wait maybe 15 seconds and then pick them up? And that's why you're crying like a baby? Maybe you should try a different game. I'd rather devs focus on actual problems like the hook bug, and invisible map barriers that keep you from moving.
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Oh, ok. He's running two of the worst perks in the game. So what?
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Just so you know DS and unbreakable are pretty fun to use together sometimes especially with all the toxic Survivors having a blast with it and you do know that Survivors are supposed to use any perks/combos they need to survive right? And also let's not talk about your perks
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Actually... that's not rare at all.
Just yesterday I got hit by DS after hooking 2 other survivors...
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This build wasn't used as much when DS got changed tbh.
What happened was killers started to slug to counter the use of DS. Survivors then started to use UB to counter that.
The issue here is the strats used by both sides not just one. You can't nerf one without doing something about the other side.
Now the devs are in a strange position atm as they don't want players to be slugged the whole match or have them taken out by camping or tunneling but they also don't want to punish those as sometimes it the best strat to use and can be needed.
So how do you fix this issue? DS I would say could do with a little change.
For one it hides the aura of survivors and screams when its active. Second once you start an action like gen or totem it removes it. Mending doesn't affect it and you must heal to full to remove its use. This gives players a choice to make so doing actions to further the game lead to you losing the perk.
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That´s kinda neat, until you get matched with experienced players that are actually impossible to beat without slugging or patrolling. I think the complaints about the small pp build don´t stem from the lower brackets anyway, but when good Survivors use them. I don´t mean to insult you but recommend you check out high level gameplay to get a grasp of what I mean.
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Yes, this is the actual only counter if all 4 run the combo + ehaustion perk + (PTS, SC, BT). Or become an 8k hours Nurse god.
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Doesn't matter? You can still play scummy as killer no matter how little you play them.
Why is it that ok these forums, tunneling, camping and slugging are okay tactics for killers cause "they're just doing their objective" but things like DS or unbreakable aren't even though survivors are using what they can to survive? If the perks are being used, that means they're doing what they're meant to do. Also it's one time per survivor. You all keep saying 60 seconds of invinsibility but no one ever realizes you can eat the 5 second stun and down then again?
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Yeah but unless you go back to the hook there's no way unless it's multiple of the same character to get DS to hurt you, when I played it for that escape as the obsession challenge my timer would run out 75% of the time. Unless the killer somehow forgot he hooked you there's no real way for DS to work unless the killer does tunnel you. A lot of people say it's meta I disagree usually the people I see run DS are the ones that cause the killer to tunnel in the first place
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So, what you're saying is give them a second chance and allow them to pick themselves up with unbreakable? Maybe if you use this combo, you should only die in 2 hooks, because they already get another hook state with this combo.
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Jokes on you, I burn shrouds to scare the survivors :)
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Except this build makes you 100% untouchable, and punishes people who don't tunnel as well, so it punishes people who play fair.
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killer tunnels, ds'd
killer slugs (due to DS) unbreakable or disconnect.
Killer tunnel (due to ub), ds'd.
This is a loop of excuses both sides use. I only run ds/ub because killers tunnel and slug. I only tunnel and slug because survivors bring ds/ub.
Slugging and tunneling are things a killer can and would do and surviving at all cost is what survivors can and would do.
There are too many counter arguments on both sides and the worst bit is both sides think their view point is just and objective!
Killers should behave like merciless monsters with little to no regards for the rules of engagement and survivors should behave like their lives depend on it and use every tool to their advantage (perks and all).
Anecdotal evidence is useless, you can't really know what the other side is doing when you can't see their screen. You can call tunneling, camping, slugging, ds, ub, swf et all as reasons you lost or are afraid of what a player may be running but those are usually excuses by venting players.
No one should have to bow to another players play style and no one should have to worry about other players "fun" unless you are paying for the other player to give you a fun gaming experience.
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I see a lot of people saying they run this combo because of killers. Well, what are killers going to do? Give up their pressure just to pick you up, or should they also just not care about you for 60 seconds, which is almost an entire generator. A good killer, like Oni and his amazing power, can cleanup a team if he is good and knows where everybody is, but wait, is the person with DS and unbreakable right next to the person you downed, the unhooker? Well, lucky for you, have they got something in store. You down them, knowing they have ds because they are obsession, and go for the other two people you saw on infectious. You down one of them, in a chase with the last guy. One generator left because why wouldn't there be, and then bam. Unbreakable guy gets up, heals the rest of the players, and finish the last generator because you didn't kick it, or you did without pgtw and they all get out, except that one dude who dies out of pity for you. See how stupid unbreakable is? It literally turns a losing game Into a winning one in a matter of 20 seconds!?!????!?!!! That isn't fair, at all.
Don't come at me with the stuff killer has, because there is one thing, that is uncommon to see anyway, that can do that, and that's after the survivors complete 90% of their objective. And it can still be removed from the game before then. That's what I call unfair.
Also, pyramid head is strong in a chase, but not at anything else. Same with deathslinger. All these killers with no counterplay, save few, can be countered if you do you're objective. Don't camp pallets against these two killers, don't put yourself in a bad position against these killers. Yes the chase will be short, but if you are so good at the game you should be able to make it long enough to get a generator at least 25% completed.
You all say that it's the killers fault that you play with these two perks, and that killers are unbalanced. Yeah, some killers are unbalanced. But most killers aren't. And most killers are the ones that aren't. Most killer perk combos aren't even that good, and I'm pretty sure the strongest one is undying and ruin, which can be cleansed? You guys need to do bones and play better. That's what you say to killers, right?
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Yes because nk onmatter what you say that's exactly what unbreakable was made to counter. I'm pretty sure the devs dont like slugging. It's also not a free health state as if you would leave the hook and be mindful of how long they have been unhooked you wouldnt be DS'd.
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Alright fair enough but I tell me saf to run 4 brown toolboxes to force the killers to waste a slot on franklins.
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The undying and (insert hex perk here) combo can be countered if you cleanse undying.
But there is no getting around UB+DS. If they throw Soul Guard on there, it's a literal get out of Jail Free card with no counterplay.
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I like the change.
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I have never run into this as a Rank 1 Killer. I don't need to slug or do any of that stuff and my matches work out just fine. I'm already in the highest levels of the game with both roles and again no issues. I don't 4k every trial but this also is never my goal, outside of the challenges that require it. Just like I don't obsess with escaping while playing Survivor.
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Or stop tunneling.
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this is literally a anime battle of
i can counter this
i can counter your counter
i can counter your counter to my counter etc. lol
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As a player who uses killer and survivor from time to time. Unbreakable should be nerfed to not being able to be healed from dying state from other survivors to prevent that 99% abuse
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you are not seriously comparing HEX PERKS to perks that render you 100% untouchable
good god the people of these forums are actually mindless
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Yes and now I use my mongekyo sharingan and out you in a genjutsu.
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And I am sick and tired of going up against spirit and nurse, but am I complaining. AND NOW YOU HAVE UNDYING + RUIN AND THE HAUNTED GROUNDS VERSION. So shut up because now you have a small pp build stronger than ds and ub ten fold.
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Sure but only if they nerf small pp killer builds.
Freddy with Swing Chains and Jump Rope.
Blight with Compound 21.
Huntress with Iri Head.
Killers have some serious BS too ya know.
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Wanting any survivor perk nerfed screams "I am a very bad killer"
No survivor perk comes close to BBQ usage. Double bloodpoints + wallhack
Whispers totally guarantees a kill in the endgame. DS or UB doesn't come close to this level of power.
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Did you just say whisperes - a tracking perk that's only useful endgame and early game - is better than 60 seconds of invincibility, up to 2 mins across all survivors? AND slug prevention?
Bruh. How.
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