BHVR opened Pandora's Box, so now what happens to Slinger?
Comments
-
In my opinion, he's fine as is since his "no counterplay" is countered by the fact he's slow and visible as ######### and has to suffer through a million cooldowns before getting a down. If I were to change him tho, I think Slinger would be MUCH more fun to play as and vs if he had to "wind up" like Huntress BUT he has magazines now, so he can shoot maybe two - three times before reloading. This way it's not so punishing and boring having to spend half a match reloading and as a survivor it gives you an indicator of when he's gonna shoot/some time to react.
This along with some form of map control -a non damaging sprint, much slower than Billy's, for example- would make him a much healthier killer.
0 -
I think the most obvious buff would be to make him a 115% killer but at the same time it'd also be really bad for him. It sounds weird but if you nerf his power and give him a movement speed, yeah it makes him better and able to actually loop survivors but at the same time all you're doing is just downgrading his power into a mere hinderence more than anything else. Deathslinger, just like Huntress have a huge reliance on their powers which isn't a bad thing at all. I'd be willing to wager those are the reasons why people really like them after all with Deathslinger you're a man with a gun so of course you wanna shoot a nice giant hole into survivors. Nerfing his power in a way where it just adds more draws only gives him even less of a reason to use it and just turns him into a normal m1 killer, killing his indentity. Personally if people wanna go down the route of slowing down his aiming spam that's fine but I think they should look to buffing the lethality of his gun in turn. Like making the chain snapping being able to down survivors. You can balance Deathslingers weapon in a way that it'll have a huge risk in using it but it can have huge rewards in downing the player too.
1 -
Predict a shot that takes milliseconds for the slinger to aim if he's good? It's just random guessing unless he's farther than 16 meters, not to mention tiny projectile and big hitbox and that's not even accounting for latency which we all know is terrible in this game.. Also good slingers hit 80-90% of their shots regardless of what the survivors do. If you guess correctly multiple times vs a decent slinger congratulations go buy a lottery ticket.
I hope they nerf him plus you have a clear bias considering you main him.
2 -
100% he’s getting gutted. They’ve set that precedent. Killers aren’t allowed to have equal or greater control in chase, the survivor must always control the chase.
This is why I think Spirit will get a rework eventually.....even though people said they would stop complaining when they removed collision, which the devs did yet people still want her nerfs to be an annual thing.
5 -
Slinger doesn't have a guaranteed down at a thrown pallet though, he only really has a guaranteed first hit
0 -
Honestly, I just want them to improve his add-ons more than anything. Apart from reload speed, they're genuinely some of the most underwhelming (and boring) add-ons for any one killer in the game.
Even Clown has better ones. And he's the Clown!
2 -
Slinger isn't OP or oppressive, he is balanced in the fact he has no map pressure but top tier 1v1. Also PH has a lot more going for him than just his 1v1, slinger has nothing other than his chase. He isn't getting nerfed because he isn't problematic.
1 -
I wouldn't mind if he had a PH style change. In return if he got that something like his range and chain duration would probably have to be increased, or depending on how much the zoning hurts him, 115% MS.
1 -
Stop being dramatic in all of these PH related posts, we get it, you don't like the change to end free hits, wait to see how it plays before acting like the sky is falling
btw people didn't say that about spirit, the collision change was a concession given to those upset but did little to actually change her.
1 -
They can't because they are not remotely the same.
I main Slinger but regularly play PH too. Pyramid head negates all maneuvering in jungle gyms an loops as his M2 passes through walls. Take the pallet scenario: if you're injured and vault a pallet, Slinger can shoot you but only apply deep wound as he can't physically m1 you. PH could put you in a dying state even if he waits til you turn by leading you a bit and fires through a wall.
Slinger punishes people for making mistakes in dead zones. And from what I've seen, most people get the saltiest when you shoot them tbagging the exit gate and they die.
PH just had to follow your pattern to punish you in any situation.
2 -
I have been trying to hit survivors all day with PH and guess what the result is? nobody gets hit by ROJ when they have full freedom of movement.
Not everyone has survivors that are missing half their brain.
3 -
If you give him a wind up then survivors just spaz out making it impossible to hit. Huntress can deal with this because her hatchet hitbox is huge, but Deathslingers would always miss unless he gets lucky.
2 -
Interesting how I can hit people consistently. Do all of my survivors just lack braincells? Every single one I've ever faced?
1 -
People did say that actually. They said a nerf would be enough but nope.
Tell me, why aren’t killers allowed to control the chase? Why must the 4 control the chase against the 1?
4 -
One of the big differences between them is that after Pyramid Head hits you with his ranged attack, you don't then have a 10 second window to use objects or your teammates to prevent him downing you.
There's plenty of counterplay to Deathslinger, people just get whiney because it's not between him shooting and the hit lands.
1 -
Since toxic morons said so. It's not like your able to play the game the way you want, that would be 'sillly'
0 -
Nicely put. I feel this always happens when a killer has a different way of avoiding their ability rather than just holding the run button. He's completely destroyed by breaking line of sight and zigzaging. But I guess that's too hard?
4 -
The only thing they can do is adjust how he reels people in. The quick shot shouldn't be touched. It's rewarding when you nail someone and then it turns into a fishing minigame.
Fighting against the chain if you aren't already lodged behind something feels like a lose lose situation unless a teammate bodyblocks for you. So that's where I feel they'd make a change, if any.
1 -
Devs changed Executioner which was released after Deathslinger. I think it gives confidence that Deathslinger not gonna be reworked soon. His power is not that great. He still have to hit survivor twice. Good survivor may dodge harpoon at long range. He is slow and his power doesn't even justify his speed. Zoning is situational because it's only works in open area. His power is useless at the safe loops.
Deathslinger can't make a threat to multiple survivors no matter how good player is. If he find all 4 survivors in one place he can injure one, harpoon another, and while he dealing with one survivor, other three is already doing three different gens. He has no tools to make fast pressure. Slow mobility and time consuming reload doesn't help against more than one survivor.
In my opinion Deathslinger doesn't need a rework. At least not yet.
0 -
Because its a game about BEING chased.
Take Nurse/Spirit/Billy, they can all end a chase rather quickly and barring Spirit, they have a high learning curve and require a level of skill. Getting cheesy hits when survivors are locked into animations is different. If every killer could end chases for free, the game wouldn't be any fun.
Believe it or not, the highest skill gap in this game is in chases.
1 -
His zoning and quickscope ability is only abused because of the poor ADS sensitivity. It's the exact same issue with Pyramid Head's attack. You can't limit the FOV rotation to the point that hitting survivors on dedicated servers becomes a statistical improbability. Survivors can easily outrun Deathslinger's ADS FOV even at 4000 DPI and 100% sensitivity. That's why players zone and quickscope. These things aren't problematic because they're OP. They're problematic because they're needlessly restrictive and the workarounds aren't.
2 -
you hit them out in the open? if you literally hit them in the open then yes.. they are.
You have a slight chance to hit a boosted rank 10 behind a wall with a bit of ping lag (60ish ping would do it) i will give you that
1 -
So the copious ref ranks I've faced over about 200 hours have all been boosted? Every single one? Not one of them was good and its had nothing to do with my skill, they've all been bad?
Sure.
1 -
Let's not forget the fact there's a lot more needing fixed than deathslingers power that as the devs said, "Is like an fps" ie you can insta shot and is the point of said power. As someone who plays both killer and survivor equally, the problem is that survivors decide not to adapt and whine killers into the ground instead. You're a killer you should have all of the power and every game should be an actual struggle. So in all technicality, I think there's quite a few survivor oriented things that need to be nerfed.
0 -
Dude you are trying way too hard to prove your point. Karu is a good killer I've seen him stream.
0 -
If you hit them in the open with nothing stopping them from pressing a or d yes. That or your ping is massive.
1 -
It doesn't matter and no it couldn't have been a huntress do the same thing because she gets slowdown when she pulls out hatchets and she has the cool down before she can swing after putting it away. Deathslinger has neither of those things when he should also have both. Dead zone or not it's not something he should be able to do.
0 -
42 ping so good to know I've faced nothing but potatoes despite me being rank 1. Good to know.
0 -
Let's break this down.
- The "insta shot" is the problem. DBD is not an FPS, being instantly shot forces survivors to keep dodging, causing them to lose distance and get M1'd. This is not good gameplay. Compared to Billy who the survivors can dodge while not making the killer weak, is good.
- "survivors just whine." Stop with this, its one of those almost buzz-word like things "killer mains" use, even though, believe it or not, most people play both sides. Being downed because I tried to dodge a shot that, between the ADS and firing speed is otherwise mathematically impossible to avoid, causing me to lose distance and go down anyway is not fun, I don't get how people are so thickskulled over this.
- "Killers are the power role." Please, point to me where this is the case. Even as far back as release, this game has ultimately been about the chase, it is what has always separated the good and bad players in skill. This idea that killers should always win is awful, that isn't a good game if one side is set to always be a victor, both sides should have to work equally. (at least comparatively in a 4v1.)
- Whataboutism.
1 -
You 100% can and should change his zoning. As with PH's changes, this nerf would of course be accompanied with other buffs. The problem isn't his strength; it's his ability to zone. So, the solution isn't to nerf him.
I like the idea of moving him onto the 115%/32m TR model and giving him a longer chain in exchange for much increased ADS time, but there are plenty of routes they could take to tweak him.
0 -
I mean I’ve looped deathslinger doing this just fine when I play survivor cuz there is these magical things called walls and pallets. He can’t basic attack through those and if he shoots you he can’t hit you over the walls. If you are in an open area it doesn’t matter if he can do this or not. You are dead to any killer in the open.
1 -
She is in a dead zone in this particular clip, but that doesn't change anything tbh. Let's imagine there was a pallet right where she got downed. If she hadn't juked, she would have had kept enough distance to easily make the pallet. However, she would have been a sitting duck for the Deathslinger. The second he aims down sight once or twice and sees that she doesn't dodge in the slightest he can just shoot her in the back for an easy down. If this isn't your first chase with the survivor and they haven't dodged all match you don't even need to bother baiting a dodge. You can just shoot.
You can apply this same situation to most tiles in the game. If the survivor happens to be in a reasonably strong, reasonably round loop the Deathslinger can't shoot over, sure, they can run him like they could a Huntress in that same situation and he's going to have a bad time. Most tiles aren't like that, though, and his TR is miniscule with M&A and because it spins up more slowly/quietly than the default TR, so you really don't get to pick where you engage him. Most of the time tiles like that are nowhere close and you're pushed right into the classic lose/lose.
Legion is a good comparison, actually. They are my least favorite killer in the game, narrowly in front of Deathslinger and Pyramid Head, because they essentially get free deep wounds on the first survivor they see when their Frenzy is ready, and then they jet off to go chase someone else. That's no fun for the survivor, because they basically can't do anything about getting hit and then just need to sit there holding M1, but Legion is still weak because they don't have much to help them land a second hit.
I think Legion needs a full rework to their power so that it's no longer based on free deep wounds, while also making them more deadly. I think Deathslinger also needs the PH treatment. Like PH, Deathslinger's strength isn't really the issue. He's actually a lot weaker than PH and could benefit from some buffs. The issue is just the lack of counterplay in the chase. I don't want to have to hope the killer is bad or that I'm standing in a perfect tile when he shows up. I want to be able to make skillful plays to extend chases and also give the killer ample opportunity to make skillful plays to shorten chases.
1 -
Im q fan of never nerfing without giving a buff. If you nerf slinger, you need to buff something about him. This whole game needs to be redesigned if it will grow anymore.
DBD 2?
0 -
A good one will shoot you over walls and through little spaces in windows. And he can pull you close enough then let you go and hit you with a lunge attack. If you haven't experienced it then you've probably not played against good deathslingers. Either way it doesn't matter what you say the truth is still there that he shouldn't be able to do this. I'd really love to hear your excuse if the clip was at a window.
0 -
👍no problem, hope it doesn't devalue your experience.
Do you really think you should be safe at low wall loops from killers?
1 -
Why should you be able to totally negate his power in the chase? It is a 4v1, killers should have an advantage.
1 -
You shouldn't be able to totally negate his power in a chase, but the survivor's skill needs to matter too. Removing his ability to zone would not totally negate his power, and as I've stated I would love for him to get buffs to compensate and then some.
0 -
Regardless of the subject, your entire argument is 'I think it's fine the way it is because I like how it plays and I've gotten used to it. We shouldn't change him because my enjoyment is all that matters.'
Like I'm sorry but the game isn't going to cater to you because you don't want things to change. I'm sure the people who loved the old insta heals didn't want them to change because they got used to abusing that power, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have changed because it would hurt their feelings and how they got used to using them. It was objectively the right thing to do and it's a shame it took as long as it did to implement the change.
You have to look at things objectively because the goal isn't to be subjective to protect your feelings. The goal is to find a middle ground where a majority of people are happy because there will always be that one guy who doesn't agree, so you can't please them all. In this case most people agree SOMETHING needs to change with hin and this isn't even just about him, this goes for anything that needs to be tweaked or outright reworked. It isn't about solely you.
'You just keep running cuz he slower' and get shot. You seemed to miss the whole point of you dodge, you lose distance, but if you keep going, you just get shot. It's really that simple.
Yeah, let's pretend he wasn't going to catch up to her there regardless and bloodlusting doesn't exist.
'Or drop the pallet' forgetting there wasn't one in the scenario given. And even if there was it would depend on what pallet because there are umpteen pallets that, if he shoots you over them, he can just slide on around and hold you in place to get a hit anyway. Which tends to be a lot of pallets he's able to do that with.
0 -
Jeez y’all just want the win handed to you on a silver platter don’t you? Not every killer needs to be a run in circles to loop them killer. Get better adapt and you will find things like this aren’t issues at all. I’m done responding to players who really think they deserve a free way out of dead zones. Play better don’t be in that situation or defend that person saying. “Killer op it’s not your fault you ran to a dead zone” Take Responsibility Period.
0 -
None of what you has said has contributed to either arguement, for or against killers like PH/Slinger with you instead opting to use the good 'ole "survivor bad, killer good" logic.
Learn how to have a discussion before coming back :)
1 -
I directly quoted what you said and instead of defending your points you turn to ad hominem attacks because you don't have an actual point, that much is clear. Go ahead and don't respond, nobody wants to have a DISCUSSION with someone who doesn't actually want to discuss anything anyway. If your 'solution' to a problem a lot of people have is just 'play better', you have no place in a discussion of balance.
I don't have as much of an issue with him as a lot of people do, in fact when they don't spam their gun for zoning you off free of charge, I've had great chases with DS. Win or lose, it's fun, but there's always going to be those bad eggs that abuse ######### mechanics and ruin it for everyone else. See: Legion.
The whole point of his zoning being unfair is that HE decides where you go. So you can't say 'just don't go into that dead zone it's all your fault if you do' instead of addressing the fact that he can force you into that dead zone with no drawback in the first place.
There is no 'just don't go that way' when he decides where you go with a quick flick of his gun and, like someone else pointed out, if you ignore the flicks he will catch on and instead of faking it he'll just shoot you. Let's not forget M&A on him makes his TR non existent so by the time he's upon you, you don't exactly have a choice of direction. He shouldn't be able to quickscope, this isn't an FPS and it's humanly impossible to dodge a shot you can't even see coming because he doesn't have to aim.
There's no 'responsibility' to be taken. Period. You're trying to say the killers ability to spam/fake using their ability over and over to force someone into a more favorable position at the cost of absolutely nothing is somehow a survivors fault? Get real.
It's not as much of a lose/lose as PH if only because he has an actual chance of missing you whereas with PH you are, more often than not, getting hit no matter what you do. I don't want any killer nerfed into the ground, that would be counter productive, but I also don't want a killer to be able to win relying solely on abusing a mechanic in a game that consistently guarantees they catch you regardless of what you do. The same way killers feel about decisive, which I'm sure you do as well.
If you want decisive to be nerfed because of people that abuse it for more than just anti tunneling purposes, but see nothing wrong with Deathslinger, you my friend have a double standard.
Thanks for the backup, comrade.
1 -
I'm pretty sure they're just baiting, lol. Before their ban they were one of the most well known survivor players on here. Now all of a sudden they've turned into an avid killer supporter.
1 -
I never said that but you're trying to be funny. You can be shot over walls long as they don't go above the survivors head completely and you can be shot through little debris.
0 -
This is stupid. I feel like the point of this whole post is to nerf yet another killer and make him close to impossible to play like with the nurse nerf where people have to now blink perfectly without a single mistake or you lose. Nerfing his m2 will mean that a lot more is riding on that single shot and not only that you won't have the ability to get quick shots in. These posts just prove to me that every time a killer gets nerfed the survivor masses pick a new target...
0 -
None of what you said is an argument as to why his free zoning/hits is good for the game. Slinger complaints are not new, with this being his most common criticism.
btw I play Nurse, she's fine but okay
1 -
His zoning is 50/50 and isn't objectively broken. If you don't like them that's fine but you need to know that it's not "unhealthy" for the game.
0 -
You either dodge a shot that isn't coming and get m1'd, or you get shot. its a weighted cointoss against the survivor instead of a chase determined on actual skill.
Someone like Billy's chases vs. Slinger, 1 is a fun, engaging interaction, the other is Slinger-controlled Luck
2 -
That video is a really bad way to show how Deathslinger worked out. The Nea was just doing a bad play. ADS did help against that Nea because she played it bad. She was at a wall the Deathslinger couldn't of shot over. There was no pallets. She was gonna go down either way. She was in the open and played it bad.
The second clip was also just a bad play from a survivor.
There is counterplay with him. It's called losing line of sight just like the Nurse. That's where he can't use his power.
0 -
For the record are we talking about zoning in a deadzone or in loops?
Also you can read a bait, most slingers bait in deadzones so just keep on running even if he does pull his gun up and try to predict when he'll shoot.
1 -
Lets look at the other side...
If DS can’t force survivors to lose distance then you can cripple him by holding W. There are plenty of areas in the game where you can hold W and turn corners before he can line up a shot and plenty of window loops that allow this as well. How is it unfair for DS to cause survivors to lose distance when sometimes holding W can waste many killers time? Again the killers are expected to have skill in a chase, survivors not so much.
His “instashot” is his only real way of dealing with Dead Hard. You just gotta instashot and hope they can’t react in time. As soon as you start aiming it’s press E to outplay. He doesn’t have exhaustion add ons like Huntress.
He has one shot. One single shot, after that it’s a fairly long reload which slows him down. If he misses it hurts him. He can’t just pull out another hatchet like Huntress can.
I get he’s not the most fun to play against but a lot of the proposed changes would just neuter him.
0
