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The Legion - Update
FATIGUE
Now fatigue lasts for 3 seconds (before 4 seconds)
Power gauge
- Feral Frenzy power gauge now recover for 15 seconds (from 20 seconds)
HITTING A DEEP WOUNDED SURVIVOR WHILE IN FERAL FRENZY
- Decreases the survivor's Deep Wound timer by 33% (5 seconds)
- Depletes your entire power gauge and ends your power immediately
- Plays the "Weapon Wiping" animation for 2 seconds (Like when The Legion came out) and after that you get into the fatigue state that lasts for 2 seconds. (So 4 seconds of cooldown after hitting a deep wounded survivor in frenzy)
MISSING ATTACKS
Missing an attack while in Feral Frenzy ends your power immediately but doesn't deplete it. ( So if you missed an attack when you had 50% of your power, Feral Frenzy ends but you save that 50%)
KILLER INSTINCT
- the Killer Instinct Notification will scale up/down depending on how far the Survivors are.
- Killer Instinct is now radius based (not terror radius based) so oblivious and undetectable status effects won't ignore it anymore. Killer Instinct radius is 32 meters
DEEP WOUND
- Reduced the bleed-out timer to 15 seconds from 30 seconds.
- All killers can see the amount of Survivor's Deep Wound timer
ADD ONS
RULERS
- Reduces Feral Frenzy recovery time by 2/3 seconds. (From 2/3.5 seconds)
pins
- Hitting a Survivor highlighted by Killer Instinct while in Feral Frenzy applies the Blindness/Mangled/Broken Status Effect for 60 seconds.
- Hitting a Deep Wounded Survivor while in Feral Frenzy applies the Blindnees/Magnled/Broken Status Effect for 60 seconds
Killer instinct adoons
- increases movement speed while in Feral Frenzy by 0.1/0.2/0.4 m/s
- increases vault speed while in Feral Frenzy by 0.05/0.1/0.15 seconds
duration addons
- Increases Feral Frenzy duration by 1/1.5/2.5 seconds
Fatigue addons
- Reduce fatigue of Feral Frenzy by 0.2/0.3/0.4
- Reduces "the Weapon Wiping" animation time after attacking a Deep Wounded Survivor while in Feral Frenzy by 0.2/0.4/0.6s
blades addons
- Increases Survivors' mending time by 1.5/2.5 seconds.
- Survivors that are affected by Deep Wound status effect have they Generator repairing, Healing and Sabotaging speeds slowed by 5%/10%. This effect persists for 25 seconds after completing the mending action.
stab wounds study
- When you are in Feral Frenzy you gain the Undetectable Status Effect
- This effect persist for 10 seconds after finishing Feral Frenzy
Frank's mixtape
- The Legion can start Feral Frenzy when the gauge is charged above 25%
iridescent button
- The Legion's Terror Radius affects the entire Map.
- Killer Instinct Detection range affects the entire Map
- Any Pallets you vault are immediately broken.
fuming mixtape
- While using Feral Frenzy, the Repair Progression of Generators can be determined by the intensity of their Auras.
- Reduces cooldown of Feral Frenzy by 1.5 seconds while outside of a chase.
Comments
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Tell me what do you think about this changes guys :D
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As a Legion main this sounds extremely good! I'd love to see most of these changes (I think the 3 second Cooldown with the missed attack could be a bit to oppressive but it could be tested in a PTB). The add ons all sound mostly great with better changes definitely making Legion much stronger.
My one problem is that many survivors already don't enjoy facing Legion so this could end negatively due to such. Other than that though I think this would be great! Well done dude.
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Thank's I'm glad you like it :D. I made the fatigue a bit shorter because i think it's too punishing to have 4 seconds cooldown. Blight is the newest killer and has a pretty short fatigue after his power. Even Nurse have shorter fatigue than The Legion. Thank you one more time for the comment :D
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I would just scrap the fatigue addons, since the base fatigue got decreased to 3 seconds.
Having shorter fatigue than 3 seconds would be kinda op imo.
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The only thing I don't like about this is the idea to revert the loss of gauge when hit by successive FF hits; that needs to stay away as an add-on only, imo. The rest...I love, and have begged for, for so long.
@AhoyWolf Nurse can shorten her fatigue below 3 seconds with add-ons, and noone complains about that. Atm, Legion's power isn't lethal and yet has a larger cooldown on its usage than her base kit. That said, if fatigue is reduced to 3 seconds, I probably wouldn't be fussed about cold dirt and the Joey's Mix Tape having completely changed functionality; I don't even use them in the first place since they feel like they change nothing to begin with (legit, I think it's been bugged since the rework)
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You could easily make his power lethal with the both cooldown addons stacked, having 2.3 seconds cooldown is not much, just look at the addon combo when the Legion had the 3 second fatigue.
Also OP suggested to make their power lethal again, which I'm not the biggest fan of tbh.
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Tunneling one person even with Frank's mixtape won't be the best tactic on him. He is not 110% movement speed anymore. At least The Legion won't be punished for hitting a survivor which doesn't make any sense to me. Is it really OP? When Old Legion was there most people thought that Legion without Frank's Mixtape or exploiting the bleed out mechanic wasn't a really good killer. Survivors right now when Legion is in fatigue in most cases make as much distance as possible. With shorter fatigue that would make them to drop pallets, use windows more strategically.
Also Old Legion fatigue addons:
- Cold Dirt: -0.75 seconds
- Joey's Mixtape: -0.5 seconds
- Julie's Mixtape: -0.35 seconds
So as you can see i nerfed these addons pretty much :)
I hope you are at least a bit more positive to this changes :)
Also thank you for your comments guys :)
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I will give a full review of your rework. :)
Fatigue changes: Just yes.
Powergauge changes: Yes.
The DW hit changes: I'm don't like this change, probably because of old Legion and because Legion's power just ignores every defense in the game.
Missing Attack changes: Yes.
Killer Instinct changes: I don't have any problems how the current KI works, but this sounds ok. (Also I think the KI bubble scaling isn't necessary)
Deep Wound changes: Yes.
ADDONS
Recovery Addons: Since the cooldown is so low I don't see a reason to buff these addons, I would even nerf those because Feral Frenzy can now be lethal.
Pins: So basically the old pins with mixed with the new ones, I think that's cool.
KI addons: Sounds fun, Legion is the only Killer without movement speed addons. :(
Duration addons: We need that .5 at the end!
Fatigue addons: Like I said, not the biggest fan of those. (Also where did you found the old values? 👀)
Blade addons: I hate those addons tbh, I never use them, I like the change tho, maybe they could make the Survivors unable to work on anything until they mend?
Stab Wound Study: Sounds good.
Frank's Mix Tape: No, This would make Legion broken again, since you made FF lethal.
Fuming Mix Tape: Pretty good, I would also make Legion able to see Gen auras while KI is active. (But that probably is a bug with current Legion)
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If you bring franks mixtape then you can down any Survivor in just over 10 seconds every time.
We don't want old legion.
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to make thing clear: I didn't buff the recovery addons and I didn't changed the duration addons :). Also about the Frank's mixtape i don't think it would be op but everyone has own opinion. Also I made that it actually decreases the Deep Wound Timer because in my opinion it makes no sense to Deplete your entire power, get the stun and give the survivor a speed boost without any positive effects. It should be changed in some way.
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Not 10 seconds my dude :). Maybe it will be a pretty good possibility to down a survivor but you will lose a lot more time to do so. Still Legion is slower in Frenzy than before and you can juke Legion in some ways. Still i respect your opinion. Also remember that there is no insta downing and chase exploiting as before :)
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He isn't slower, they reverted that.
And fine, I'll get you the exact timeframe.
Ahem: Starting the chase from the 2nd frenzy hit (since the first one applies DW and the 2nd doesn't have a cooldown in between) you have:
- 3 seconds of cooldown, Survivor gains 3.9 meters of distance during this time
- Frenzy is usable after 1.5 seconds post fatigue and gains 0.9 meters of distance
- With 10% of your power bar Frenzy can be active for 1 second, which is 1.2 meters of distance, but you can also lunge at the end for an additional 1.45 meters of distance, leaving you 0.25 meters away. As such you must wait an additional 0.2 seconds
- This must happen twice for a grand total of 9.4
So your right, it's not 10 seconds. It's LESS than 10 seconds.
Even if you take into account the first 2 hits that's 20 seconds tops since you aren't going to start a chase at all from more than 12 meters away and the 2nd hit happens almost immediately after the first.
Vaults will add a fixed 0.9 seconds to this time per vault since the duration is paused during a vault.
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i got old numbers from old PTB patchnotes
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On paper it sounds good, but in reality in most cases you will have to get at least 50% of your power gauge :). Look at the "Old Legion" Videos on youtube and show me a video when someone got downed without franks mixtape faster than 20 seconds :)
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3 second CD to start, Survivor gains 3.9 meters still
2.25 seconds before power re-use, during which time legion gains 0.9 meters
15% of his power gauge is 0.9 seconds of use for 1.08 meters gained, and you still lunge at the end for an additional 1.45 meters. Or in other words, 0.47 meters of remaining distance. This requires an additional 0.55 seconds of waiting
Totaled this is 13.8 seconds
The version of legion you are proposing downs almost 5 seconds faster.
I WANTED to post a video clip here instead of more math, but I couldn't find an old Legion video of someone attempting frenzy downs that wasn't either moonwalking, using franks mixtape or both. It's not that I found video's of people failing to do it quickly, but that no one was even attempting it that I could quickly find. I'm sure it exists somewhere, but there are a lot of Legion videos to sort through, both new and old and I only have so much time.
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I uderstand what do you mean but there is almost no chance to use frenzy with 15% of Frenzy. You can't make Frenzy Lunge excactly at the end of the Frenzy. when you vault survivors also gain distance. I can make this addon to be able to start on 25% if you think that would be at least a bit more balanced but imo it wouldn't change anything :P
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As Legion main, i really like this. Specially the addons. I like that the pin can still be used on survivor in DW to apply some effect, instead of the unreliable "hit another one to apply this" and the speed one (we have that when legion was out, and they were my favorite).
Frank Mixtape can be a little too powerful, maybe. But, like you said, it's very hard to just use it when it's just at 25%. As before, when Legion was released and survivor can be downed like that, i still had to wait for at least 50% of the power, to prevent a window juke, locker juke or a possibly pallet drop. And we have other killer that have purple addons more powerful than that (for example, Honing Stone for Trapper or Rusty Shakles for Hag). Otherwise, it can be a iridescent addons instead of the actual Fuming Mixtape (cause, really, who cares about how much the generator are repaired?). Lastly, even with the best possible teory, you still need to hit them 2 more times in FF. So, if it took, at best, 13,8 seconds to hit them, you still have to do it again for another 13,8 seconds, for a total of 27,6 seconds. In the best possible way.
As for the KI notification that scale based on distance, i don't think it necessary. A good legion know if the notification are too far to reach, and it's up to the killer to learn when it's too far away or when to try.
In the end, i really hope they will change Legion like this, returning him / her to the former glory (without exploiting with moonwalk). I find it that having a power only to prolong the game isn't much, and it's too much similar to the Deathslinger power.
Edit : I forgot something. As now, when the Legion hit someone with his normal m1, 50% of the power will deplete. In your idea, you will still use this mechanic or will erase it?
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Skimmed through but this sounds like a straight up buff.
He needs a rework not a buff tbh and since theres practically no counterplay to his frenzy a missed attack should end it immediately
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He doesn't need a rework, he need to have his original power : put survivor in dying state with FF. And you didn't read a lot, cause he said that missing an attack in FF will still end it's power. And he can't be reworked easily. The Deep Wound status was introducted with his chapter, so it's basically its mark.
For counterplay, it's like every other killer. First, spread out. Second, try to loop him as much as you can. Even with the other killer you will still go down, at some point. Even with this, it's not better than other, cause he need to stab you 2 more times after the first FF. Most of the time, it's better to just m1.
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So basically old legion?
Would've been 100x better if his power worked like:
1st survivor hit in frenzy = injure + deep wound
2nd survivor hit in same frenzy = injure + deep wound with 66% of the timer left + mangled for 60 seconds
3rd survivor hit in same frenzy = injure + deep wound with 33% of the timer left + mangled for 60 seconds + hindered for 15 seconds
4th,5th and so on survivors hit in same frenzy = instadown.
If survivor has healed from deep wound and you hit them again in same frenzy, they are counted as new survivor. So you don't lose your instadown when you suddenly get rid of 1+ survivor and that would also make instantly mending more punishing.
Also, vaulting pallets should break them as basekit.
Red addons could be like "You can mori 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th survivor hit in same frenzy" and "feral frenzy has unlimited duration, unless you are in 1 chase for more than 10 seconds. FF cooldown is increased by X seconds for every Y seconds spent in frenzy"
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Thanks for a comment :D. Switching the Frank's Mixtape with Fuming Mixtape could also be a thing a will be thinking about that. The KI mechanic that I created here was meant to be a more reliable detection power. Just to make the detection more exact than now, but less exact then the aura reading. About the mechanic when the 50% depletes It never made any sense to me tbh. After you hit a survivor with m1 why would you even want to go into Feral Frenzy? I never understood this mechanic so i will be for erasing it.
I made that missed attack still ends Feral Frenzy, but just is not as punishing as before :). Also Feral Frenzy is very easy to counter as Gaala said. I play a lot of The Legion as also a lot of Survivor and I never have a problem with playing against it. When he is in Frenzy and you hear TR just run away, there is no way he would catch you. You can easily split up with other survivors splitting the pressure on the map. Then Legion is in a really bad spot. There is a lot of way to juke him. On pallets you can go into his hitboxes, On windows you can do a really easy window tech. So he wouldn't be able to down you with even 25% of the power as NuclearBurrito said in my opinion.
Rework could also be a thing but than you have to change his power a lot, and I love idea of Feral Frenzy not gonna lie.
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Not gonna lie I don't like your idea at all. You trying to make The Legion punish survivors for mending? That would be OP against noobs and very bad against good survivors. They could just mend on 99% and your whole rework wouldn't even work.
The Idea about morying survivors while in Frenzy is just stupid. Same as before even more op against the noobs and still very easily countered by good survivors. I don't like the idea of Infinite Feral Frenzy addon. That would some feeling with his Power and saving it for later imo.
Breaking the Pallets in Frenzy as base kit is also not good idea. It wouldn't be immersive at any way, Legion doesn't need that tbh. It's perfect on an Iridesctent Button and it should stay there.
The Cooldown idea is not also my thing, If you are long in Frenzy you have longer cooldown. Idk what about you but I wouldn't like to be in a 10 seconds cooldown XD
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Also I forgot to say. I was thinking about adding an additional cooldown when hitting a deep wounded survivor in Feral Frenzy. Weapon Wiping effect like when the Legion came out, that would last for 2 seconds, and then normal fatigue that would last for 3 seconds. So that would be 5 seconds of cooldown, giving survivors more time to escape. Could you tell me what would you think about that change? :D
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5 seconds of "stun" are going to penalize him a lot. It's basically a DS stun. The survivor will gain tons of distance, with 5 seconds + sprint from hit. Maybe 4 seconds of only fatigue, like now, if you hit them again in Feral Frenzy when they have Deep Wound. Like this, you can choose to end FF manually, and having only a 3 seconds fatigue (best action if you are in an area where you already destroyed pallets) or 4 seconds fatigue but his DW timer are reduced (best if you are in a strong loop area with pallets up, like shack).
Anyway, i think it's a good idea, as you can actually choose the best action depending on the area you are.
Ps : With this idea in mind, you could even edit the Fuming Mixtape that, instead of reducing the cooldown while not in chase, reduce the fatigue from hitting a survivors that are in DW by 1 second.
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Okay i think the 4 seconds of stun are perfect. But i would make it that way:
2 seconds of weapon wiping, 2 seconds of fatigue = 4 seconds of the whole cooldown.
I added the weapon wiping to change the fatigue addons a bit
Fatigue addons:
- Reduces fatigue of Feral Frenzy by 0.2/0.3/0.4s
- Reduces "the weapon wiping" time after attacking a Deep Wounded Survivor while in feral frenzy by 0.2/0.4/0.6s
So while you attack a Deep Wounded Survivor with Cold Dirt you will have 3 seconds of cooldown
While you finish your Feral Frenzy by clicking the M2 button you will have 2.6 cooldown
Do you think that's okay? :D
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I think is fine, though some test are needed. As for now, i think that Legion without addons is good, but with some drawback. With addons, you reduce that drawback, or improve other aspect (like speed or the ability to destroy pallets istantly in FF). As now, i can't think of any combination that can be considered too powerful. The best combination, in my opinion, is Iridiscent Button + Frank Mixtape, but it's nowhere near some other powerful combination of other killer like the istadown Huntress, or Trapper with trap that down survivor that free themselves and that reset automatically after 30 seconds.
But as i said, it needs testing first.
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Okay I updated the post. Thank you so much for the conversation :D
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No! No! No! Oh GOD, no!
Look, you put a lot of time into this. I respect it. And you do have good ideas. There is just one problem...
DW—depleting the gauge with Frenzy—that one is literally Old Legion with Frank's Mixtape. Combine that with your idea for a rework of Frank's and it really IS Old Legion.
Look, Legion needs a buff. But that suggestion risks bringing back one of the most unfair, unfun, poorly designed messes that have ever haunted this game.
Post edited by GrimReaperJr1232 on0 -
@Szarman I was a bit rude in my previous statement. I apologize.
The problem with making Frenzy lethal is the lack of counter play available. You go see Old Legion (who didn't need to full gauge to Frenzy) and you'll see how unfair it was. Just stab, chase, repeat. There was nothing a survivor could do. It was as unfair as it was unfun.
Perhaps there is a way to restore Legion's status as being a very unique killer, while also creating an effective form of counter play. If that's the route you decide to go, I wish you the best of luck.
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Some Feedback:
- Deep Wounds should not be depleted by Feral Frenzy. We can’t risk having old legion.
- Fatigue addons should just be reworked into something else if fatigue is going to be 3 seconds baseline.
- Blade addons need be nerfed a bit. Imagine combining these two addons with Thana and Dying Light. This would be a worse version of Forever Freddy. I suggest you make them not stack and the action speed debuff be 3%/5%.
- Fuming Mix Tape would be abused because it’s tied to the chase mechanic, but I don’t it’s effect is unhealthy. It just needs to be changed so it can’t be abused.
Overall, I like these changes. A few things just need to be changed and it would be perfect :)
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I thought the only problem survivor had with the old legion was the moonwalkin thing. It seems i was wrong.
I think there is nothing wrong with downing survivor with FF. It's like asking Billy or Bubba to not use the chainsaw, or Spirit use the Phasing, or Doctor using the shock cause there is no counterplay, when it's completely wrong. You can still stun it to end FF, or you can do a window or locker juke to bait him for a hit and end his power prematurely. And if you don't use the Frank Mixtape addons, you need to wait for it to recharge completely before using it again. And you will still need to use 2 more times after the first FF (not only once like at first with the addon). And, if you hit a survivor with FF that has already DW, the fatigue is 4 seconds (it's only 3 if you use the Cold Dirt addon. And even if it isn't wrote, i think, and hope, they will not stack). You have the hit sprint + 4 seconds to run him away from the others. You will going down, at some point, but this is true for every killer. And if you don't go down, it's a difference of skill.
For Thana and Dying Light, we still need to see if the change will go up and if the change thana % like some ask, so i don't talk.
Saying that Mending for 1.5 or 2.5 second more (from the basic 12 seconds that are now) is frustrating is crap. Like saying doing the totem to prevent NOED is frustrating, even if it's the same time. But i can accept that both effect can be.
Finally, as i always said, it need to be tested before considering something too powerful.
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