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The stupidest part about ruin/undying/tinkerer
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Play killer. Make note of the meta perks the majority of survivors use. The overwhelming majority even. Now, remember - killers have been dealing with THAT meta for YEARS. Literally YEARS.
Undying has been out for less than a month and you guys are already demanding a change, despite it STILL not being as strong as the ######### you guys have.
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I play solo queue, and I'd say there are so many maps with obvious totem spawns that it's rare for us to get through a whole game without finding Undying. In the rare event the killer gets good RNG and gets to keep their totems the whole match, they deserve it, IMO.
That's how a luck-based component of the game is supposed to work -- sometimes it breaks my way, sometimes it breaks the other side's way.
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Why does it have to be ruin that gets eventually nerfed?Ruin / Unduying alone is not that much of an issue, when the killer does not get informed which gens about to pop, the problematic perk in this combo is Tinkerer! So I say lets nerf Tinkerer again just for a bit. E.g. give it a moderate cooldown (30s) or let it only proc again when the gen regressed to less then 70%, that would give a minimum of 5% buffer for the survivors to touch the gen again without triggering tinkerer again.
Or you could, you know, try to play around tinkerer. Leave the gen early after tinkerer should have triggered to hide. So when the killer chases to the gen, he does not find anyone and waists time, he maybe even dropped a chase for that. Jump back on the gen when he's gone, if you repair over the 75% threshold again, rince and repeat. As long as you are not found, you will either get the gen done eventually or at least waste much of the killers time. Use Spine Chill for extra sneakiness.
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This. I don't use Ruin+Undying. because i noticed a highered usage of anti-totem-perks/items.
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I totally agree.
I mean sure, there are always going to be the "best" meta builds, but Hex: Undying is good for the game because it makes so many perks not only useful but also viable. In games I've played using the build the OP is complaining about, both Ruin and Undying are knocked out usually before the second or third generator. It's also good for the game in high-level play because it makes survivors not just focus only on doing gens, they should have to worry about working through more than just gens and getting around the killer. It encourages coordination and focusing on objectives. I just don't see how it's bad for the game and don't think it'll be changed because the developers likely developed the perk with these ideas in mind.
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You don't need a single perk to counter Ruin/Undying. I recall most totem spawns anyways. Only indoor maps are a bit tricky. And you can check most spots while searching for gens or being chased.
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How can we nerve this perk when we know that the survivors explode the totems very quickly?
Again, don't buy Blight for his perks, you'll make a mistake!🤣
They can get on their nerves, they will eat themselves out of camps, tunnels, and slugs.. massively ! Because of perks like DS the game has become unplayable, the best killers say. Result? How many games while surviving to meet a Bubba camper? Personally, I met 4 Bubba in a row... slug, camp, tunnel on the menu !
So yes, go on people, nerve the killers!😀
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The upside to that is that they're burning perk slots and items that could otherwise advance the game or hinder you directly. Running multiple hexes forces the survivors to hunt them down, especially before they reach critical mass. (Huntress' Lullaby, Devour Hope, and Third Seal can all change the game at 3+ stacks.)
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Im not trying to be all whataboutism..
So thats what exactly imma do.
What about all the meta perks survs use? Which is constant. Or the fact one surv with a map can literally remove two perks out the game? Yet people want to nerf them? Okay.
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Because survivor meta perks are alot easier to play around, maybe the only time i have difficulty as kiler is deli, bill and ds towards the end of a game. There are many other insanely strong killer perks which i don't usually complain about. I mean i don't even have a problem with noed. It's just that this build literally makes matches unbeatable in the hands of good killers. I was running it on my blight for about 20 games and 2 gens was the best the survivors ever did. Because you literally just go to a gen whenever it's about to be done and regress it.
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There's a difference though, most people don't have a problem with corrupt and pop. Well i don't at least. Because yes it can be effective and good but it doesn't just do the work and win the game for you.
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So DS, UB, DH, Adre need to be nerfed as well? Because that is mostly what Survivors use to get easy wins.
Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer is less pain than some Never Ending Build.
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Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer dont win the game for you. If anything its actually a worse combo than corrupt and pop against swf. They’ll shred through your totems fairly quickly.
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I think every meta perk from both sides need some nerfing. Survivors practically ran the same build for years now, it usually have exhaustion perk, DS, BT and then alternatives like iron will / unbreakable. Most of the perks just need number adjustment rather than massive reworks.
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This 100% I agree.
Is here a way to massage the Devs directly?
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Ds, Ub, Dh and Adre don't give you esay wins. Because Ds is only working If he is tunniling, Ub only against slug, Dh reward the survivor for a good play. And Adre Reward you for doing Gens.
But Ruin, undying, Tinkerer is just unfair and boring.
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They could shift the meta easily if they wanted. They created undying specifically for that purpose.
Change survivor meta:
Technician - working on a gen does not alert surveillance. Delays tinkerer by 10/15/20%
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Tinker is a.good perk but not op.
Ruin is very good and one of the 3 perk can slow gen with corruption intervention and pop.
Undying is the real problem. The aura reading is insane, an the start of the game u spot survivivor and they don't know about the perk or if they are near a totem. Free hack on loops. And some nice protection for yours totem. The aura reading need to go if survivor is not cleaning the totem.
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These survivor perks are all 2nd Chance perks. Did u ever went against a 4man swf who stack these perks, use Object and do gens in record times?
If they use these perks, you can't slug, you can't tunnel to get more pressure if they know what they are doing. Nothing.
And you want to teln me that this new perk combo on killer is boring? Have you ever heard of the Tragedy of the Forever Freddy Build? I think not. That build was boring. But not the Ruin/Undying combo.
Just do Bones man. It's not asked too much to do.
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Undying shouldn't be nerfed imo
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I really don't think it should be nerfed. Just bring detectives hunch or any perk that allows you to find bones.
I mean... you have 4 survivors.. just do the damn bones! I think what hurts the game the most is not just gen speeds but the fact there is no secondary objective. When undying is in the mix you have to take some time to find the totems. Is that such a big problem?
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OK how about an Object of Obsession nerf? Aura reading and free info whenever you want to tell your team if you are on coms.
OoO gives free wall hack against Nemesis and Freddy while you are asleep. No mindgames possible. How about a change for this?
Stop calling Undying op or too strong. Just learn to go against it and don't cry because there was a meta change.
Survivors use the same 2nd Chance perks for 3 years.
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Thank you! My point exactly.
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Have you ever slapped that on a high mobility killer like Freddy, Nurse, Oni? Corrupt and Pop don't have rng, Hex perks do. It only needs 2 lucky Survivors to first cleanse Undying and then ruin right at the beginning of the match to get rid of 2 of your perks. And if it is a large map, they'll do the totem before you are there (unless you are Billy or nurse). So the non rng perks are always better. They can't be destroyed by Survivors.
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Yep, I agree. Ive probably done more bones lately than I have in awhile.
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And that was their entire point in creating these Perks. They serve a specific role in balancing an issue, i.e. adding a secondary objective which is of enough importance that people don't ignore it.
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and what about people who play SWF but dont use coms? I personally play a lot with 1-2 friends but we never use voice coms (we are all introverts) and just play the game as if it was Solo q but enjoying each others company and dont have to fear getting potatoes. we would be in a disadvantage for no reason
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Kudos to you. That is how me and mine play too. We tried SWF out at first talking about the game and immediately saw how broken it became. We agreed it was cheating and now play together but talk about movies, fantasy football, politics, etc. We have a strict rule about no out of game communications. That is how it SHOULD be. However, your group and mine are the exceptions, not the rule. The vast majority of SWF play with the 5th Perk (Comms) and that is WHY we have Blight's Perks today. If you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at those SWF who do make use of that competitive advantage.
The Genie is out of the bottle, and will never go back inside it. The only way to solve this issue is to break up the Ques. The patchwork approach we are currently using will never solve the issue, because even if it manages to balance the 5th Perk (Comms) it is going to strangle Solos and those few SWF who play like Solos.
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it just sucks...
One idea tho: How about increasing the base Tier meassurement? With that I mean: Why not taking current SWF on coms as standard and buff every aspect of the game to match them? This means buffing Killers (indiviudally, but also overall with more gen time for example) but also give Solo Q more tools into their hands to get close (obviously never like real coms, but better closer than nothing) to SWF? That would be some work for the devs but seems to be the cleanest solution in the long run to me
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I'm a survivor main and I have 0 issue with this perk build. If anything, you should be happy that you have ammo for when a killer complains about your "meta build" in the post game chat, cause that's a pot calling the kettle black.
Ruin+Undying is REALLY good and annoying on maps that have good totem spawns. But how often is that??? Most maps have easily discovered totems.
I've definitely had games where the killer was 100% carried by this build. But that's the point of running perks. Totem perks feel pretty cheesy but IMO that's offset by the ability to cleanse them.
I also don't think that the aura reveal on Undying is an issue. Undying is meant to be a totem that defends other totems (like the Thrill of the Hunt perk) and NOT having a way to know that someone is on your totem would make it much weaker. You can literally use the perk to your advantage. If I'm having trouble getting a totem cleansed because the killer keeps coming after me for it, I'll wait to start cleansing when the killer is deep in a chase. He either commits to the chase and loses the totem, or leaves the chase and begins a new one/loses both me and the other person he was chasing (if I sneak away before he gets to me)
I'll actually be disturbed about it if Ruin or Undying ever get nerfed. PLEASE don't give killers mains another reason to complain. Ruin and Undying are fine as they are and quite balanced in my opinion. I'd rather go against this build than Corrupt and Pop PLS
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Implemented correctly this can work, in theory. Basically it would require adding Comms inside the game mechanics so that all Solos who want to talk to each other can. *This is a huge coding hurdle. Not everyone has or wants to use Discord, etc. To work this would have to be inside the game itself. The other issue is this requires a MASSIVE rework of every Killer, Perk, and Power to reset balance after the fact. It means, by the Laws of Unintended Consequences, that we will have a year or more of other horrible things go wrong. :)
While it is certainly another way to approach it, which do you think is easier, more cost efficient and has less unintended consequences:
- Split Solo and Team into two different Ques where Team can have extra objectives added an an extra Perk unlocked for the Killer.
- A massive rework buffing everything up to try and match SWF?
I trust you take my point? It can be done the way you suggest but the cost, time, and additional issues do not make it the best route.
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It is not a valid argument to say that you do not have to nerf the perk because survivors have perk op as well. you have to nerf all the perk op (Ds, noed, undying, OoO) the only thing you say is to agree with me. the perk is op and you don't want it nerf because they also have op perks. counter unbalance with more unbalance.
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I was just pointing out your one-sided arguments.
Many players just cry "it's op pls nerf" because they are too lazy to adapt. Leave the perk be for some months and then reevaluate.
There were really broken perks which needed the nerf asap (looking at you Mettle of Men) but were gutted in the process. This is what I fear. That because there are so many people who just cry because they are too stubborn to adapt, Undying gets nerfed to Oblivion whereas all the Survivor meta perks stay untouched because killers adapted or got used to it over the time, because they had to.
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Is it weird that out of the three perks in this combo, I actually feel that it's Tinkerer that should be adjusted?
Not that I want it nerfed into the ground or anything like that, I just feel that it frequently removes the already minuscule hope of escape from 2v1 (and sometimes even 3v1) situations.
I think Tinkerer would be in a slightly better spot if it was a token perk that got marginally weaker as fewer survivors remained in the trial. My thought would be to delay its gen-notification by 10% progress for every survivor "killed" in the trial (by sacrifice, mori, bleedout, or DC, NOT by premature hatch escapes). Basically, if one survivor died it would activate when gens reach 80% progress instead of 70%, or 90% when only two survivors remain (and it would provide no progress notifications against a single remaining survivor). Would allow Tinkerer to remain roughly as strong as it currently is, while limiting how oppressive it can be in those matches where killer has already established a pretty significant advantage.
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you can't be for real everything you said so wrong but Deadhard reward the survivor for a good play?
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jajajaj do u believe that these perks are op jajaja. 1 totem can be clean in 10 seconds, 4 survivors... so 1 totem per surv ... hahahaha
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If you use dh to not get Hit. If you dh into a pallet or window or use it to let the Killer miss. Then you outplayed the Killer.
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No. You successfully pressed E at the right moment.
That is having 1. a good connection and 2. a good reaction, not outplaying the killer. Outplaying the killer is i.e. winning a mindgame.
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OK I have a good reaction but not a good connection it's sometimes funny to see the Killer Chase me and I lag 20m Back and he lose me XD...
Do this Count as outplayed?
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Do bones lol
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Yea try doing that without comms and whilst the killer is pressuring and downing people.
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I disagree. If you are running to a pallet then deadhead for distance to make it to the pallet where as the killer would've been able to hit u be4 and, that's not outplaying the killer. The killer could literally do nothing and all you had to do what click one button to have the chase extended for at least 10 seconds. There are very few times where DH actually out plays a killer. Its uncounterable in some situations and imo not healthy for the game. If they are nerfing killer perks because they are too hard to verse or uncountable, I feel like the same should be done to perks like DH
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DS and Unbreakable makes a survivor invincible for 60 seconds
DS can work when not tunneling
DH does not reward a survivor for a good play, believe me I have had survivors "Outplay" me cause Blight's rush lunge is so short
Also, the Ruin/Undying meta is countered by Cleansing Ruin, then look for the new ruin totem and ignore it until undying is gone, only Ruin gets reset, not undying
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I run this combo on my Ghostface at rank 1 and it helps me stop getting gen-rushed against SWF like I used to. It gives the survivors another objective in cleansing totems and allows me to apply more pressure in different areas of the map without having to waste time kicking gens. It also allows me to get some stalks and prep survivors for later while they are on gens and then interrupting them, exposing and downing while regressing the gen and building pressure. This, as well as the fact that it's countered by just doing totems so it holds fair counterplay. There are many instances where I'm left with two perks in the first 2 to 3 minutes of the game but by that time, I have usually caught enough survivors to have at least one of them on death hook and the other 3 hooked at least once so it does it's job.
I mainly play survivor and I have little problem with Ruin and Undying. The only issue I can bring up is the fact that it's unfair in SOLO QUE against high mobility killers. When in SWF, you guys can each take down totems and keep track of how many are gone but it sucks to go up against in solo que since there isn't a totem counter (Which many have been asking for as long as I can remember).
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"creative builds" because survivors are so well known for that.
Decisive Strike, Spine Chill, Ubreakable, Deadhard, Balanced Landing. Prove Thyself, Resilience, Acheataline.
Whoa survivors use so many perks.
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What is kinda sad and you clearly see, how mediocre or bad the majority of perks are. If you look at the tier list, the last good killer perk was when plague was released 1,5 years ago. Now with blight there is at least one additional perk that becomes meta. Even worse with survivors with dead hard 2017 the last perk that became meta.
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If you think that's the only perks that survivors use then damn u must be living under a rock.
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"Last good killer perk was one of plagues" Righteo....
So im guessing surge is terrible, nemesis has no use in builds, bloodecho is useless on all killers, thrilling tremors has no benefits and im all ears can't be used at all?
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There are so many things i could say about that but all im gonna say is how early r u lunging on blight so that you miss every deadhard?
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Welcome to the balancing problem in this game. Not even close to all killer are equally viable.
Also (just to give another one side vs the other argument -.-) the same logic can be applied to ds/bt. It eases the problem for the lower ranked survivor but high skilled survivor and coordinated swf become nigh unbeatable due to such strong perk synergies.
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