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scrap clown's reload
no other killer with a power like this has a reload
the obvious comparison is between clown and freddy as they both have a base hit power that is an aoe hindered affect in addition to a scream. you can make the "but freddy has to go around the loop once to use dream snares" argument all you want while ignoring the aoe effect doesnt go away after 20 secs like clown's meaning you can put it on the loop minutes in advance.
clown being barely better than legion means he can take alot of buffs without being over powered he still has no passive slowdown, alt objectives or mobility options as well still being countered by just throwing the pallets early.
thoughts?
Comments
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Deathslinger
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not as heavy of a movement penalty and its a lot faster not to mention terror radius diffrences
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No I agree clowns reload should be reworked but you should change the 1st line
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its not as long or as slowing as clown's
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but the first line is objectively false if you don't include those qualifiers (which you haven't).
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Good comparison with Freddy - let's nerf his snares instead.
I'd be down with giving Clown more base bottles, buffing base cloud width, etc., but removing his reload would be terrible. He would be straight up broken in the 1v1.
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Why does Freddy need his snares nerfed?
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Lol.
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Ok.
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So what does he do, just pull the next five bottles out of his butt instantaneously? Or he has an infinite number of bottles to just spam indefinitely? Think it through.
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Personally I feel the bottles should refill over time. Bottles reload every 15 seconds but lower his bottles to 3.
Means he doesn't waste time reloading but isn't able to just throw bottles crazily. Needs to be smart about where and when to throw them. Means that at every loop he should have at least 2 bottles to use and max 3.
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Freddy plays like Clown at loops, but without the downside of having to slow way down to reload his snares after using four of them. Clown's bottles have the benefit of AOE and a bigger max range, but in a loop they're just about the same as Freddy's snares. If a survivor wants to dodge Freddy's snares, which isn't always possible, they have to cut the loop so wide that they're still going to lose a lot of distance. As far as I know the slowdown from Freddy's snares will stack, while running through the clouds from multiple bottles will not stack. Freddy's snares are also persistent until triggered while Clown's bottles only have a temporary effect, so score one more for Freddy. A big theoretical downside of Freddy's snares is that that they're useless until you fall asleep, but in practice it is far too easy to fall asleep against him and far too hard to wake up. Even if you're lucky and he shows up while you're awake, once you loop him for a bit or take a first hit you're going to be asleep regardless. In practice you're going to spend the vast majority of the game in the dream world. So, really, each has their advantages. Clown's bottles are clearly stronger with add-ons imo, but they're at least comparable without them.
Trouble is, this is Clown's ONLY power! This is meant to be strong enough that he can apply pressure solely through the chase. He has no built-in stealth. No built-in BT counter. No extremely good mobility from teleporting (including the best ability to use Pop & Thrilling/BBQ in the game). No ability to scare survivors off gens by faking a teleport, and no ability to use that technique for free hits when when approaching an unsafe gen (especially one in a corner of the map). Clown has audio cues when he vaults, throws bottles, etc. that Freddy doesn't have when he vaults, places snares, etc. Clown doesn't have passive slow downs and time wasting in his kit like Freddy does with the "waking up" mechanic and his slowdown add-ons. Clown is even physically taller, so it's easier to see him over some loops, like the hay bales on Coldwind maps.
"So? Clown is one of the weakest killers in the game." Yes he is, but with this power alone he's still not entirely hopeless. He's much like Deathslinger in that he gets pretty much all of his pressure from quick chases, and that's still enough to make him plenty usable at red rank. I regularly 4k with Clown and I'm not even a particularly strong Clown player.
Freddy just has too much going for him right now. I'd personally nerf his snares somehow, possibly by putting a low cap on the number of snares that can exist at once, or by forcing him to slow down while placing snares, or by reducing the strength, duration, and/or stackability of the hindered effect. I'd also remove the penalty for survivors to wake each other up multiple times and fully remove his slowdown add-ons.
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i guess it is pretty vague but when i was writing this i was thinking of freddy and how his dream snares dont have a reload and DS doesnt induce hindered in his base kit power but you are right i didnt include that in the first line.
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i was more thinking of increasing cooldown from throwing bottles to like 3 secs per throw( assuming infinite bottles) or barring that maybe a single uncancelable bottle reload that can be chained to reload them all with no movement speed penalty and a higher reload time
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One small tweak that would help Clown in a chase (without giving him literally unlimited bottles) would be to make it so his gas causes survivors to vault more slowly at pallets and windows. If survivors had a bit of a delay vaulting over pallets while intoxicated then it would make a few more pallets still mindgameable for Clown after an early pallet drop that he currently can't quite beat without just kicking the pallet.
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I think an easy buff would be a quicker reload time, like 2 or 3 seconds and more bottles which persist a bit longer. There aren't many buffs that clown can get to make him a good killer without a total rework imo. He has absolutely no map pressure, he just makes loops shorter. Even then, survivors just throw down the pallet earlier and move on to the next. If the clown dedicates then they lose the game cus everyone else is doing gens. A clown against any good survivors is basically ######### from the get go. But yeah, i'm all for clown getting a buff to reload speeds and bottle caps cus lets be honest, survivors and killers alike can agree clown is complete ass lmao.
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i like freddy i dont think he should be nerfed i would much more like to see the other killer get to his level i only brought him up because freddy is objectively stronger than clown even without bringing up all the stuff he has on clown:
passive slowdown, alt objectives, teleport, alt terror radius mechanics. focusing just on dream snares to bottles clown has an answer to everything freddy has: over double area covered by slow down? freddy has 2.5 times more snares than clown has bottles. easier to use in a chase? freddy can put the snares down minutes before the chase starts. both give a notification scream when slowed but clown has a reload and freddy just doesnt and thats enough to put him over the edge even without considering all his other abilities.
clown is just weak freddy is about 3rd best killer in the game i dont think he needs a nerf
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what do you mean? like doctor's shock?
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I think its more like a forced slow vault on pallets
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I just wish he had more bottles, maybe around 7 or 8 and then Redhead's pinky finger should have reduced bottles. My idea for his passive slowdown could be like doctor's, and survivors could get drunk which hinders them and their vision, and skill checks can be weird, then they have to 'sober up', I'm not sure that would be too good, but drunk survivors would be funny
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lmao drunk survivors, I want to see that. Redheads pinky finger can ######### off tho, if clown is getting a rework then that addon has got to go lmao
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If you would like other killers to be as strong as Freddy and you think he's the third best killer in the game, the most reasonable way of getting there is to nerf Freddy and then to buff killers overall. It doesn't make sense to buff almost 20 killers individually when you could just nerf/buff the killers that are way stronger or weaker than average and then buff the whole roster.
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most killers are around or at A tier the only ones that arent are legion, clown, trapper, wraith, plague and depending on luck pig.
most killers are up there maybe t3 myers could use a buff, spirit needs a visual power tell and demo shouldnt sound like a 1900'S steam engine when he is "undetectable" both over all most killers are up there in A tier.
it would be easier to make one or two choice addons base kit for a few weaker killers as well as standardizing how many box searches pig can give out or delete plagues auto cancel.
to be clear when i say A tier as killer that with experience can go toe to toe with an experienced 4 man swf as opposed to S tier with spirit and nurse which are unbeatable regardless of survivor experience levels after a few hundred hours
compared to B tier killers like huntress and plague that just depend on outside factors like maps and survivor choices outside of chases.
Being A tier is where all killer should be. they need to have a chance at winning otherwise where's the fun?
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More like a slow vault. You can still vault, you're not completely blocked like Doctor does, but it takes a bit longer and you have more vulnerable frames in the animation.
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