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Decisive Strike balance
https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillyFunSalsifyHeyGirl
The skill check will be the size it is shown in this video, but only at the start of the match. Using Decisive Strike will make it so you cannot be healed to full but still make noise and leave blood trails, as discussed in the full stream of the clip shown above.
The addition I am proposing is this -
When the match starts(5 gens needed to completed), the skill check size is as big as shown in the clip. For every generator completed, including generators automatically completed due to disconnects, the skill check gets approximately 13% smaller. When the skill check gets smaller, only the end portion of the skill check remains. This means that when the exit gates are available to be opened(5 generators completed), approximately only the last 35% of the large skill check shown in the clip is on Decisive Strike. This will make it so that survivors cannot save their DS for end game to guarentee a free escape, but does still give them a chance to escape. Granted, the perk will still be extremely powerful for SWF, but at least Killers will still have counter play against solo players using it at end game. The reason this will work is because the Killer can reliably juggle the survivor to a near enough hook at end game. Currently, juggling survivors relies on pure luck that Decisive Strike does not give a very early skill check.
If you have any ideas to add on to this to counter for SWF as well that would be nice
Short explanation for why just making it not work once gates are powered is useless - Because SWF can severly abuse this by not popping the final generator until DS is used. Also a solo may get very lucky with their timing.
Comments
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@RagingCalm said:
https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillyFunSalsifyHeyGirl
The skill check will be the size it is shown in this video, but only at the start of the match. Using Decisive Strike will make it so you cannot be healed to full but still make noise and leave blood trails, as discussed in the full stream of the clip shown above.
The addition I am proposing is this -
When the match starts(5 gens needed to completed), the skill check size is as big as shown in the clip. For every generator completed, including generators automatically completed due to disconnects, the skill check gets approximately 13% smaller. When the skill check gets smaller, only the end portion of the skill check remains. This means that when the exit gates are available to be opened(5 generators completed), approximately only the last 35% of the large skill check shown in the clip is on Decisive Strike. This will make it so that survivors cannot save their DS for end game to guarentee a free escape, but does still give them a chance to escape. Granted, the perk will still be extremely powerful for SWF, but at least Killers will still have counter play against solo players using it at end game. The reason this will work is because the Killer can reliably juggle the survivor to a near enough hook at end game. Currently, juggling survivors relies on pure luck that Decisive Strike does not give a very early skill check.
If you have any ideas to add on to this to counter for SWF as well that would be nice
Short explanation for why just making it not work once gates are powered is useless - Because SWF can severly abuse this by not popping the final generator until DS is used. Also a solo may get very lucky with their timing.Just leave it as it is now, but only allow obession to use it. Problem solved?
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@Jack11803 I kind of understand what you are saying, but at high ranks(5 to 1) even 1 decisive strike can royally screw you over. Also, it would be unfair to the people than equip Decisive Strike but do not get chosen as the obsession. That is a wasted perk slot for them. And being a Killer main, I know how bad it hurts to lose perks (COUGH hex perks)
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@RagingCalm said:
@Jack11803 I kind of understand what you are saying, but at high ranks(5 to 1) even 1 decisive strike can royally screw you over. Also, it would be unfair to the people than equip Decisive Strike but do not get chosen as the obsession. That is a wasted perk slot for them. And being a Killer main, I know how bad it hurts to lose perks (COUGH hex perks)That’s the point. It’s unreasonable strong, so it’s risky to even run. Thus less will run it. Thus there’s finally going to be games completely void of D-Strike.
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@Jack11803 said:
@RagingCalm said:
@Jack11803 I kind of understand what you are saying, but at high ranks(5 to 1) even 1 decisive strike can royally screw you over. Also, it would be unfair to the people than equip Decisive Strike but do not get chosen as the obsession. That is a wasted perk slot for them. And being a Killer main, I know how bad it hurts to lose perks (COUGH hex perks)That’s the point. It’s unreasonable strong, so it’s risky to even run. Thus less will run it. Thus there’s finally going to be games completely void of D-Strike.
if its an 'obsession only' and screws whoever else uses it, it needs more kick.... any suggestions?
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@deadwolfwalking said:
@Jack11803 said:
@RagingCalm said:
@Jack11803 I kind of understand what you are saying, but at high ranks(5 to 1) even 1 decisive strike can royally screw you over. Also, it would be unfair to the people than equip Decisive Strike but do not get chosen as the obsession. That is a wasted perk slot for them. And being a Killer main, I know how bad it hurts to lose perks (COUGH hex perks)That’s the point. It’s unreasonable strong, so it’s risky to even run. Thus less will run it. Thus there’s finally going to be games completely void of D-Strike.
if its an 'obsession only' and screws whoever else uses it, it needs more kick.... any suggestions?
Just bring it back to 6 seconds. And MAYBE immune to enduring.
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@Jack11803 said:
@deadwolfwalking said:
@Jack11803 said:
@RagingCalm said:
@Jack11803 I kind of understand what you are saying, but at high ranks(5 to 1) even 1 decisive strike can royally screw you over. Also, it would be unfair to the people than equip Decisive Strike but do not get chosen as the obsession. That is a wasted perk slot for them. And being a Killer main, I know how bad it hurts to lose perks (COUGH hex perks)That’s the point. It’s unreasonable strong, so it’s risky to even run. Thus less will run it. Thus there’s finally going to be games completely void of D-Strike.
if its an 'obsession only' and screws whoever else uses it, it needs more kick.... any suggestions?
Just bring it back to 6 seconds. And MAYBE immune to enduring.
i like it....
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A streamer I mod for made a video on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se25OJccEdQ2 -
It should be a high-risk high-reward perk, IE. if you're not a obsession then you shouldn't be able to use it. If it means that NOED gets neutered then that is cool for me, but DS is in its own league of brokenness, there is no other perk that is remotely near it in terms of how broken it is. If you play at higher ranks the chance that a survivor is running it is super high and that isn't a coincidence. They really need to nuke this perk similar to how they did with save the best for last.
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It's still punishing the Killers for picking a Survivor up. I think the best way to balance it would be to either have it stop the Killer from moving or reduce the movement speed while a carrying a Survivor. Obsession would have faster wiggling speed.
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I'm genuinely surprised that a thread about Decisive Strike has remained civil and not strayed off into the usual territory of Survivors getting triggered because someone mentioned their crutch perk.
That being said, if Decisive Strike was an obsession-only perk, that would be great. When you know every Survivor has Decisive Strike you might as well leave them all on the ground to bleed out because they'll all stab you in the arse with whatever the hell it is that they stab you with and get away.
Killers have perks that are situational and can be useless, and like Hexes can be completely disabled. Obsession Perks between Survivors and Killers are the same way. Decisive Strike should be no different.+1
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@RagingCalm said:
https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillyFunSalsifyHeyGirl
The skill check will be the size it is shown in this video, but only at the start of the match. Using Decisive Strike will make it so you cannot be healed to full but still make noise and leave blood trails, as discussed in the full stream of the clip shown above.
The addition I am proposing is this -
When the match starts(5 gens needed to completed), the skill check size is as big as shown in the clip. For every generator completed, including generators automatically completed due to disconnects, the skill check gets approximately 13% smaller. When the skill check gets smaller, only the end portion of the skill check remains. This means that when the exit gates are available to be opened(5 generators completed), approximately only the last 35% of the large skill check shown in the clip is on Decisive Strike. This will make it so that survivors cannot save their DS for end game to guarentee a free escape, but does still give them a chance to escape. Granted, the perk will still be extremely powerful for SWF, but at least Killers will still have counter play against solo players using it at end game. The reason this will work is because the Killer can reliably juggle the survivor to a near enough hook at end game. Currently, juggling survivors relies on pure luck that Decisive Strike does not give a very early skill check.
If you have any ideas to add on to this to counter for SWF as well that would be nice
Short explanation for why just making it not work once gates are powered is useless - Because SWF can severly abuse this by not popping the final generator until DS is used. Also a solo may get very lucky with their timing.Honestly, the rework that is revealed so far is great
no skillcheck at all, just a push of the button to be let go off
it'll stop being the meta, and be a high risk low reward perk, that can save you at the exit gate, as the original intent of the perk was
that's why it's called "Decisive strike", because it's about taking the decision of "should I save it for later? or use it now already??"
and removing the skillcheck will immediately solve a few minor issues at the same time, juggling, not functioning, hook wasting it etc
and the reason it'll make you permanently hurt, is for the "Decisive" part of the perk to have consequenses
it makes up for how easy it will be to use it.if this is still not a good enough rework of the perk, think about how easy it'll be for you as killer, when you face survivors who use it at the start of the game, even if it's 4 of them, they'll be permanently damaged after they use it, granting you free downs and free hooks, and if they save it until gates are powered and then gets away, you lost because you let them power the gate, hence it's a rightful use of the perk
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@Kiores
"and if they save it until gates are powered and then gets away, you lost because you let them power the gate, hence it's a rightful use of the perk"
"you lost because you let them power the gate"
"you let them power the gate"
Excuse me? I thought that you were a Killer main from other posts I have seen you in. A ######### HAG MAIN, at that. Surely you of all people should understand that "you lost because you let them power the gate" is the absolute rudest thing you could say to a rank 1 Killer, right? Or are you just a lower ranked Killer? If you are, then fine, I am sorry that I jumped to conclusions about you being stupid, but if you are rank 1 Killer then you absolutely must be making a poor joke here, or just have INSANE luck at rank 1.
Even games without any Decisive Strike can prove immensely difficult to kill everyone before the exit gates are powered. Just imagine 1 guy at the beginning of the match being a great looper, and running you around for 2 generators or more. He uses Decisive immediately, so yeah he is injured forever, but have you thought about him just hiding and not being found afterwards? Then the other 3 on his SWF use their Decisive at the end, and you cannot juggle them because they can use the perk the instant they are picked up.
This is an absolutely wild statement to make, saying that a Killer, rank 1 especially, deserves to derank because he could not four kill before the gates are open!
You also claim in your comment that juggling is a "problem" with DS. Actually it is quite the opposite. Currently, there is 0 counter play to Decisive Strike that works consistently. Juggling is the closest thing we Killers have to it, but the reason it is not true counter is because there is always the chance that the skillcheck comes early. That is the reason why the main premise of my balance fix for DS would work(even if the exact idea is not used, then the premise of juggling be a true counter should stay) and the reason why having a button press to instantly activate the perk upon immediate pickup is ludicrous!0 -
@RagingCalm said:
Excuse me? I thought that you were a Killer main from other posts I have seen you in. A [BAD WORD] HAG MAIN, at that. Surely you of all people should understand that "you lost because you let them power the gate" is the absolute rudest thing you could say to a rank 1 Killer, right? Or are you just a lower ranked Killer? If you are, then fine, I am sorry that I jumped to conclusions about you being stupid, but if you are rank 1 Killer then you absolutely must be making a poor joke here, or just have INSANE luck at rank 1.I have never claimed to be Killer main, and I've only played around at around rank 6 at highest, before emblem system, but since I could easily get 4k's with Freddy and Hag and Nurse, although nurse doesn't count since she's easier to play as for me...
I apologize if it really was rude, but even on my friends account on Rank 1 it was not much of a challenge against most survivors...@RagingCalm said:
Even games without any Decisive Strike can prove immensely difficult to kill everyone before the exit gates are powered. Just imagine 1 guy at the beginning of the match being a great looper, and running you around for 2 generators or more. He uses Decisive immediately, so yeah he is injured forever, but have you thought about him just hiding and not being found afterwards? Then the other 3 on his SWF use their Decisive at the end, and you cannot juggle them because they can use the perk the instant they are picked up.That's where I wanna stop you, it's not difficult to kill everyone before gates are powered, as you're the one that decides if they get to power the generators or not, you don't have to keep chasing that one survivor around
@RagingCalm said:
This is an absolutely wild statement to make, saying that a Killer, rank 1 especially, deserves to derank because he could not four kill before the gates are open!I never once said you deserve to rank down, neither did I say you will derank, you can safety pip with 0 kills with emblem system, and pip with 1-2 kills depending on how you spread out the hooks
@RagingCalm said:
You also claim in your comment that juggling is a "problem" with DS. Actually it is quite the opposite. Currently, there is 0 counter play to Decisive Strike that works consistently. Juggling is the closest thing we Killers have to it, but the reason it is not true counter is because there is always the chance that the skillcheck comes early. That is the reason why the main premise of my balance fix for DS would work(even if the exact idea is not used, then the premise of juggling be a true counter should stay) and the reason why having a button press to instantly activate the perk upon immediate pickup is ludicrous!I think that it's a problem, as it's stupid that you can basically disable a perk like this, although the hook wasting of DS is worse, where you hit the skillcheck right before killer press spacebar to hook, and DS doesn't activate but it's still used.
PS: I may be a survivor main, but I don't often use any Meta perks, DS I only play around with on extremely rare cases.1 -
@RagingCalm said:
Even games without any Decisive Strike can prove immensely difficult to kill everyone before the exit gates are powered. Just imagine 1 guy at the beginning of the match being a great looper, and running you around for 2 generators or more. He uses Decisive immediately, so yeah he is injured forever, but have you thought about him just hiding and not being found afterwards? Then the other 3 on his SWF use their Decisive at the end, and you cannot juggle them because they can use the perk the instant they are picked up.That's where I wanna stop you, it's not difficult to kill everyone before gates are powered, as you're the one that decides if they get to power the generators or not, you don't have to keep chasing that one survivor around
Marths depip squad would like to have a word with you.
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Only obession can use. Brings a new meaning To decisive. You got to decide if you even want to risk losing a perk slot to someone else being obsession. Would also decrease meta with DS, as people would run other obsession perks to increase obsession chance. And it’s help remember me.
All in all, having only one possible DS a game, and it being a risk to use would solve many problems.
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Having a perk do nothing for non-obsessions is absurd.I'd be thoroughly impressed if the devs implemented that sort of dysfunctional suggestion.Should just be the killer root for non-obsessions and insta-wiggle meter or longer root for obsessions.1
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@Visionmaker said:
Having a perk do nothing for non-obsessions is absurd.I'd be thoroughly impressed if the devs implemented that sort of dysfunctional suggestion.
Should just be the killer root for non-obsessions and insta-wiggle meter or longer root for obsessions.
How so? All obession perks had weakness to non-obession. Wouldn’t it fit for the strongest obession perk (perk in general) having the strongest drawback
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Jack11803 said:
@Visionmaker said:
Having a perk do nothing for non-obsessions is absurd.I'd be thoroughly impressed if the devs implemented that sort of dysfunctional suggestion.
Should just be the killer root for non-obsessions and insta-wiggle meter or longer root for obsessions.
How so? All obession perks had weakness to non-obession. Wouldn’t it fit for the strongest obession perk (perk in general) having the strongest drawback
Because it's simply unfun. Why should I end up with a dead perk just because rando-Claudette decided to spice things up with a Lv1 DStrike? Why should my customization be fully nullified by a **teammate** of all things?It's completely counter intuitive. If multiple DSes are a problem, then they can figure out a solution for balance. This is not a solution, this is a lazy way to dissuade people from using the perk completely, and even less to play with randoms.0 -
That’s the entire gimmick of obession Perks. Sole survivor (not anymore because it’s such a weak perk) object of obession. The reason you can get it nullified, is because you choose to run it. You chose to risk running an obession perk, that also happens to be the strongest any perk in the game.
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Wouldn’t be a top used perk anymore as well
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Jack11803 said:
That’s the entire gimmick of obession Perks. Sole survivor (not anymore because it’s such a weak perk) object of obession. The reason you can get it nullified, is because you choose to run it. You chose to risk running an obession perk, that also happens to be the strongest any perk in the game.
I don't know if we're playing the same game, but Ooo and SS both work for non-obsessions. Inevitably, even non-obsessions fully get the chance to use their perks.The reason it would get nullified is if the devs implement such a ridiculous suggestion. Not because it follows any sort of preexisting theme.0 -
@Visionmaker said:
Jack11803 said:That’s the entire gimmick of obession Perks. Sole survivor (not anymore because it’s such a weak perk) object of obession. The reason you can get it nullified, is because you choose to run it. You chose to risk running an obession perk, that also happens to be the strongest any perk in the game.
I don't know if we're playing the same game, but Ooo and SS both work for non-obsessions. Inevitably, even non-obsessions fully get the chance to use their perks.
The reason it would get nullified is if the devs implement such a ridiculous suggestion. Not because it follows any sort of preexisting theme.
In advance, thanks for debating civilly
I believe the pre-existing theme is that the perks are weakened if you aren’t obsession. So the strongest perk gets weakened the most, to nothing. Also, pre-game chat. And I suggested in other posts solo people should get SWF tier comms, and then both could be nerfed without ruining solo queue survival rate, which is currently at 30%
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@Jack11803
Clearly, neither of us agree with anything the other says. I think we need to do one of 2 things
1. Come to a compromise
2. If that doesn't work, agree to disagree
This discussion keeps making my damned phone ping, so I would just love to make it end because I cannot unfollow my own post.0 -
Jack11803 said:
@Visionmaker said:
Jack11803 said:That’s the entire gimmick of obession Perks. Sole survivor (not anymore because it’s such a weak perk) object of obession. The reason you can get it nullified, is because you choose to run it. You chose to risk running an obession perk, that also happens to be the strongest any perk in the game.
I don't know if we're playing the same game, but Ooo and SS both work for non-obsessions. Inevitably, even non-obsessions fully get the chance to use their perks.
The reason it would get nullified is if the devs implement such a ridiculous suggestion. Not because it follows any sort of preexisting theme.
In advance, thanks for debating civilly
I believe the pre-existing theme is that the perks are weakened if you aren’t obsession. So the strongest perk gets weakened the most, to nothing. Also, pre-game chat. And I suggested in other posts solo people should get SWF tier comms, and then both could be nerfed without ruining solo queue survival rate, which is currently at 30%
I don't think it's the right way to do it. A drawback shouldn't lead you to put blame on your teammate. A drawback also shouldn't be fully reliant on a coin toss. And it's completely unfun to have to compromise with every single lobby just to use a perk.The implications of your suggestion forces DS the biggest pain in the ass for the user as possible, and that is not a good trend for balance. It's intentionally frustrating just to artificially drive down its usage.I'd like to see where you got your numbers. Not because I don't believe you, but because I like seeing data for myself.And I bet you SWF will try to bully solo survivors out of using their DS.0 -
Modtvrecent devs streams past 89~ I think.
@RagingCalm
My phone doesn’t ding my posts, I only get emails for bookmarked discussions, maybe there’s something in settings that could help you? I keep track of stuff by clicking my profile and just checking every new notification0 -
Thank you.
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