Hexes: Undying + Ruin and Tinkerer "Small PP" Combo is not OP and should be not changed.
Small PP Killer Combo gone in 2 mins vs a good SWF
Small PP Killer Combo vs a good team of Solos (I asked if they were solos on end game)
These were my matches back to back and it confuses me so much that many threads here ask to nerf this combo of "Hex: Undying + Hex: Ruin and Tinkerer" because "it's so OP", "It obliterates Solo", "Makes the game unfun" and etc.
Like you can just find and cleanse all 5 totems to counter this but no another argument is "Any Killer with half a brain would kill you before you cleanse/find all five totems"
Are you guys playing the same game as I am? because the last time I checked it's 1v4, take a look at the videos of the "Overpowered small PP build" against a Good SWF and a good team of Solos. While I am chasing someone as Blight someone just keeps doing Gens or cleansing totems effectively destroying the combo. A killer can't just walk away from a chase that they are committed to.
In my honest opinion all the people who complain that this combo is super op on highly mobile killers are just lazy to find 5 totems, too lazy to replace one meta perk with Detective's Hunch/Small Game or just want to hold M1 all game never want's to adapt.
TL:DR - YOU PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS COMBO AS OVERPOWERED JUST SUCK AT THE GAME, GET GOOD! (Like the survs at the video.)
Comments
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I'm just going to point out you made an entire thread complaining about people's perks. Only to follow it up with this one.
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Gigabrain move right there.
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I think you meant the this combo isn't OP and shouldn't be changed,right?
The thing about this combo is it can be very strong,yes bit it's still extremely RNG reliant.
In very few cases you will actually have to cleanse all 5 totems.
In my experience undying gets almost always destroyed first and then ruin leaving me with only 2 perks in the early-mid game
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Yea that's right, Half the comments there were "Hurr Durr Small PP Killer Build OP"
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And your thread was "Hurr Durr Small PP Survivor Build OP". What did you expect people to write?
Edit: I think it would be pretty funny if someone copies the exact same wording in this thread and replaces all occurrences of Ruin / Undying with DS / Unbreakable
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Also,following your logic.Couldn't you just say the same about the survivor perk combo (i'm not gonna use that stupid term,thanks scott btw)?
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Yeah, survivors can just cleanse all 5 totems before touching a generator. Killers can avoid survivors for 1 whole minute after each unhook. Just as reasonable.
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The Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer combo is not fine in my opinion as it allows bad/inexperienced killers to win even if they need minutes to get their hooks.
Also the reward is just way too high considering the required actions to use that build effectively.
The build literally tells you where to go and if you make it to the nearly finished gen (which is brainlessly easy when playing a mobility killer) all you have to do is chase them off to get a nearly finished generator back for doing nothing remotely skillful.
The survivors' alternative is cleansing basically every totem while revealing their aura which is another aspect of the combo that makes killer gameplay pretty brainless. You literally have to do NOTHING to find survivors. You get the chase for free.
Also cleansing every totem can be just another way to die to an OK-ISH killer as it may cause enough damage to the team resulting in a fairly simple win even with the loss of the hex perks.
Just my opinion.
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this build is not small pp build at all, it has so many counters... to begi with is a hex totem build. is there any small pp build killers can use? lol. there are addons but is there any uncouterable combo perks? i think there arent, only survivors have uncounterable combos.
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Legit if it's ruin and undying, the best counter is to stack on gens, if it's tinkerer, so that the killer can't get there in time to stop it, or if it's discordance, split up on gens (which works so badly against the killer it's unreal)
That said, I think Undying itself does too much. The aura reading needs to be changed in some way, as it's legitimately game changing information that could occur at any time.
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DS, DH, SB, UB, BT. SC.
Basically, if you run even one of those, you forfeit your right to talk about a killer's build. Period.
EDIT: Well, OK, you can still make a cheeky comment about NOED. But just 1. And it better be followed by "lol gg"
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You still have to get your downs quick or else you may save 1 gen but lose 3 gens in the process
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"The game is only balanced when I can see when survivors are doing totems, when I get a notification and undetectable status when they are near finished with a gen, and when I can see the location of all survivors after a hook. Oh, and survivors should have to cleanse ruin at least 2 times before it goes away, even though based on the odds I have a way better chance of it being at least 3 or 4. BTW if survivors have OP perks they are sweaty, but if I have OP perks I'm just trying to stay competitive."
lol okay.
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I wouldn't even call Tinkerer, Ruin, and Undying a small PP build. The killer has to apply pressure to all survivors to keep off gens and if they ever let themselves get stuck in a chase against a single survivor for long enough gens will just pop anyways.
It's a build that rewards killer for applying pressure, something survivors have been saying killers should do.
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DS/Unbreakable/BT can be countered too, just don't interact with the unhooked survivor! 4head
Your account is either a troll/bait account, or else you are the most entitled, delusional person I have ever seen. Cheers.
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In what scenario does a killer not have to apply pressure? Are there a consistent number of games where a killer tunnels one good looping survivor while the rest gen rush? No? Then that makes exactly zero sense.
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Both games you showed was 100% luck. They were just lucky and cleansed the Undying hex first in both games.
So it's not like they're a good team. Luck was on their side.
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Just cleanse the Undying totem first 4head. It’s not hard, just git gud at RNG.
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I think you should still atleast listen to those peoples arguments. Theres bunch of unfun perks on both sides.
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Ruin/Undying? I see no issues, and I use it on almost all of killers. I enjoy it, I don't mind facing it (because I'm now officially an EpicSoulGuardGamer:tm:) and I think it's relatively healthy to have a meta shake-up every once in a while. Even when Ruin doesn't do anything, that's 70 seconds gained by them doing totems.
When it's combined with Tinkerer is when I start having issues. Many killers who use this build just, can't chase. It's like NOED all over again. They'll spend hours at an L-T wall missing every swing but then the Tinkerer procs and off they go to start it regressing, and begin the process all over again, until eventually a mistake is made or resources run out because, given infinite time, the killer will always win the battle of attrition that is DBD. Obvously you can cleanse every totem but again, these guys just don't know how to chase, so they see your aura on their bones they can and will drop it to go chase you off of it. Ruin/Undying, imo, is healthy for the game, if a bit obnoxious in solo (BHVR add a totem counter please). Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer isn't healthy for the game, and eventually this build will be a crutch build for bad killers who can't effectively end chases, like NOED currently is (imho).
But hey that's just my opinion, and luckily this is the Internet so you're entitled to your own.
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flip this on it's head and imagine people listing killer perks and characters like "PGTW+CI, RuinDying, ThanaLight, Freddy, Spirit, Pyramid Head. If you run even one of those, you forfeit your right to talk about a survivor's build. Period."
Alternatively ditch the us vs them bullshit, and recognise that both sides of the game have their own issues and both sides have an equally valid right to express those issues. Capiche?
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Imagine not being good enough to play on a map with awful totem positions and spawn near a lit totem which happens to be the perk you need to cleanse first? come on this 2020, there are guides on Youtube and tutorials for this game. I would like to know how many games he played where the combo lasted for almost the entire game and carried him to victory.
On a sidenote I think Undying+Ruin should be tweaked and Undying+DH/Lullaby/Third Seal should be tweaked too.
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Ub isn't even op and neither is borrow time. I run both and against these 2 perks as well.
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I 100% agree, its not overpowered. I've played games of survivor with this build on the killer and got all 5 gens done and 4 people escape without even cleansing the ruin. New ruin is hardly even a good perk anymore, and the fact that people are gaurding it with another perk slot just means that they are using 2 perk slots for a fairly bad perk. This is my problem with the new ruin, its too good to not be a hex perk, but its not quite good enough to be a hex perk, hence why I just dont use it. You will have a much better time with Pop and Tinkerer and Dragons Grip tbh, that way that gen is pretty much gaurenteed to take twice as long to finish. Suvivors (who can use Unbreakable and DS) have no right to call such a mediocre build "smol pp"
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Ruin Undying Tinkerer NOED
Basically, if you run even one of those you forfeit your right to talk about a survivor’s build.
Period.
see how stupid it sounds when you say people who run certain perks are not allowed to discuss the game’s balance?
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From what I've seen here, when someone posts something and two paragraphs down voices their opinion, they're just here to just put every other differing opinion down.
That being said, as a survivor main my opinion on this combo is mixed. I love the fact that Undying is finally making survivors do totems. I can't tell you how many times bad killers get a 3K just because of the noed crutch when I'm in a solo game. I've had games where I did 4 totems and still was left hanging at the end of the game because of a lucky noed killer swing.
I do think that the aura reading on Undying is a bit much though. There is no reason for that being there. If a killer wants to run a heavy hex combo, make them spend another perk slot so they can get that info. Make them sacrifice BBQ or Tinkerer for the alert.
Also, would a totem counter next to the gen counter be so bad? Solo ques suffer so much because of that little bit of lack of information. If the devs want to make totems a secondary objective which is fine by me, at least help solo players by letting them know how much of that objective is left.
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Well, I don't run any of those 4... since I don't have Tinkerer or Undying, and Ruin is worthless without Undying.
And I'd rather lose than run NOED.
So I can comment on your small pp perks all I want, and tell you if you run small pp perks on Survivor, you don't get to comment about small pp perks on Killer. ;)
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Congrats! you missed the point of the comment entirely.
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This is great. Take my upvote lol
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The problem there is that killers can't just break the survivors' hex turns and leave them without perks all game.
Could you imagine the great wailing and gnashing of teeth if killers could just completely invalidate a survivors perk for the rest of the match, all just by walking past a glowing totem and holding M1 for 10 seconds?
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Dude that's my exact ######### experience and I'm like #########. How are they every game finding undying first???? The only game it didn't happen is when I tried to use devour with it and they kept cleansing devour. But they were immersed because the exposed icon never went away despite the tokens going away so it wasn't until they stopped hiding that they realized they weren't exposed
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It's just bad luck i guess.
I also remember my devour hope always being found first instead of Haunted Grounds.
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you're forgetting the "Any Killer with Half a brain would Slug you for 60 secs and that dumb killer would let me just stand up with my unbreakable hahaha"
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Can we not nerf something?
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Same energy. Those combos are useless to me. I don't even bother unless it's all I have when leveling a killer
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Killers just say “do totems then” like the thing is all it takes is a brain dead killer to use those perks and they’ll win cause they don’t have to apply pressure, the perks do it for them. Not to mention undying has aura reading on it like if it was aura reading just on the undying totem it would be fine but it’s so boring.
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lmao this actually made me laugh. There are scum builds in this game. DS and Unbreakable are dirty when combined together, but because I use dead hard and borrowed time I have no right to talk about killer builds? Sorry but you are insane lmao. Dead hard works once per game to avoid a hit, if that. Good killers expect a dead hard and wait it out. I use dead hard to make a little extra distance to maybe make it to a window to extent a chase a little bit. In no way is this a scummy perk. Borrowed time is a camping counter. Its not scummy at all. If it needs to be used then the killer is scummy for camping. if someone uses it in your face then they werent scummy, they were stupid. They are jsut gaurenteeing that either themselves or the person they just saved will get chased. Its a much better idea to wait for the killer to leave and save and not need the perk at all. I bring it as a safety precaution against scummy killers, not to be toxic. DS is a rough perk, and it does need a change ill agree there, but sometimes people do use it because they get tunnelled a lot and they mean no harm by it. Sprint Burst? For real? Okay, that perk gets you 5 seconds of haste and you have to walk everywhere to not waste it. Its good when it works but you waste so much time walking everywhere its hard to call it scummy. Im assuming SC means spine chill. Thats just absurd lmao. Spine chill is an info perk. You know if the killer is looking at you. So what? most killers have a terror radius so you know they are coming anyway with the heartbeat getting louder. Sure its annoying playing ghostface or mikey but really its not that bad. If SC means self care then you are abolutely insane lmao. Self care takes 30 seconds for a heal, even longer against sloppy butcher or mangled addons (which are very common on a lot of killers so if you reeaallly struggle against self care (lmao #########) then put on one of them.) It has its moments, especially with very independent survivors (namely no0b3), but more often than not it works in the killers favour more than the survivor. That survivor is spending 30s in the corner healing instead of being productive, giving you, the killer, loads of time to chase someone else or regress the generator they were working on. Self care is one of the weakest perks in the game. People just need to find their team or bring a medkit. The fact that you think self care is overpowered really gives you no credibility at all lmao. Anyways, thats my rant on self care over, onto unbreakable. Unbreakable is an amzing perk, but its annoying to play against. But thats all. Its annoying. An easy counter to this is just to pick them up. Its not that hard. Most games I play I see at least someone run unbreakable and around 80% of the time they dont get to use it. I still 4K, theres no need to have 4 people slugged.
So yeah, just because I run dead hard and borrowed time doesnt mean I cant get mad at killers who bring moris, noed, insidious, iri heads and other ridiculously unhealthy perks/offerings/addons, winning the game with zero skill. I'm not gonna say "lol gg" to any of that because its not a gg, its ridiculous. You really are an entitled killer if you think every single decent perk for survivor is toxic. Would you rather I ran no mither, self care, diversion and buckle up? Grow up mate, people are actually trying to enjoy the game the way it was intended to be played unlike killers like you who clearly use ######### addons and perks just to give you an easy 4k. Hopefully this opens your eyes a little, maybe you need to play some survivor to really understand what your on about.
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Ya know if people run "small pp" builds on 1 side they should talk about small pp builds on another side cause they would be knowledgeable onthe topic
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Bad survivors will always cry foul about undying and ruin, (undying does have its problems, ruin is fine,) all the while unironicsally running BT/DS/UB/their favorite exhaustion perk.
Meta is meta.
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Man everyone on each side is gonna do what they gotta do to get a leg up, it is what it is. As a killer main I'm not gonna complain about DS or BT (honestly BT ######### me more than strike just cuz of late hooks). Really the community needs to quit crying about "unhealthy perks". It's a game and sure losing sucks but I'm sure if you stop and think about what mistakes you made then you'll get better. I mained PH because he's the reason I got the game, I didn't have any "op" perks to begin with and I ranked to level 7 my first time, and I'm sure I'm not the only one since there's so many more people out there with years of experience. On the survivor side I'm trash because I haven't learned to loop well... that's on me not on oppressive killer perks. And honestly flashlights pissed me off the most until I figured out how to look up lol. Y'all just stop complaining. Just stop. You get money for playing this? No. Stop.
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The game is only balanced when killers have to evenly hook my and my teammates or its tunneling even if 2 are running OoO and giving constant callouts, we all run DH as a second chance anytime we mess up because we deserve 2nd chances, it goes well with my DS UB build after I rush at the killer with bt then spam lockers or get fully healed, work on a gen and then punish the killer if they grab me because that's tunneling.
See I can do it too. Also imagine complaining about bbq , we have over what 40 characters? 4 stack if bbq is a necessity at this point. Also undetectable doesnt stop spine chill does it? 4 sweaty survivors with 4 sweaty perks vs 1 4 pern sweaty killer .....its still in survivors favor AND at least 2 of the killer perks can literally be deleted not to even touch how some killers need addons/have garbage addons vs survivors always useful medkit, key, and flashlight.
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As a Killer main I have to disagree. I changed my original stance on the topic. My main roster is not equipped to properly capitalise on this combo (they´re basically all 115% M1 Killers) but on Killers like Blight, Nurse, Spirit, maybe even Freddy or Billy, this build is just nuts man.
Competent teams are very well able to deal with this, but how many people qeueing as Survivor don´t fall into top player category? Especially in soloq, they´re screwed.
It doesn´t neccessarily need to get "gutted" but given how overbearing this build is on the already really strong Killers vs the majority of the Survivor playerbase, it should be addressed in some way.
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You're forgetting that there's a Four Survivor, A killer can't chase more that 1 survivor at a time. Look at the videos as my example I chase someone, other guys are doing Generators or cleansing totems. A Killer can't just chase a survivor while defending Gens and totems.
Look at the SWF one, I chase someone they pressure my totems and Gens, Look at the Solos now, two guys Commits to the gens while David finds totems and Meg get's chased.
Your logic is for 1v1 not for 1v4.
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