An honest and baffled question to people hating Deathslinger
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So does mine that you're throwing rocks in a glass house.
Okay, we are both stubborn. And I am willing to listen to points, but not when the points boil down to 'you play the game wrong because you rob people of chases'.
I do agree (i think i mentioned) that Deathslinger should be barred from using M&A. I also do agree that a bit of wind up time would not be bad (though it might actually make him more powerful or not make a difference at all). What I don't agree with is when people say that he should be removed because you can't loop him (and other things)
Personal solution would be dynamic maps, but that's a different topic
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This is just whataboutism. Tell me how I should counter Deathslinger other than stealth, or why I'm wrong about stealth not being viable against him.
Again, Myers is nothing like Deathslinger. He cannot zone. Deathslinger's ability to zone is the problem. If Michael is stalking you, you are faster than him and you can run away. If Deathslinger is faking a shot, he is faster than you, so you can't dodge without taking an M1 and you can't run straight without taking a ranged shot.
I do not like running Spine Chill because it makes the game substantially less fun. No need to scan your surroundings, no jump scares, just wait for the kitty cat to light up and Urban Evade away. Again, though, a perk should not be necessary to counter a killer, especially since you can't see which killer you're playing until the game starts. Second chance perks are not necessary to counter any killer in the game and are therefore irrelevant.
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Have you ever heard of initial thoughts and opinions?
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thing with deathslinger is that no one complained till some big name streamer said he can't be countered the usual way, which the community twisted into 'he has NO counterplay' which lead to 'he's unfun because you can't run him', which ultimately lead to some people being outright vicious towards everyone who likes him in any way.
And I hope we agree that the latter is absolutely not okay
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Yeah it's not, but the issue with that is I hated spirit and deathslinger eventually and I couldn't properly explain why because I just never thought deeply and after reading what other said I realized I agreed. Thats no bandwagon and in a game like this people have to realize that not everyone can be in touch with their feelings like other or just downright dont pay attention to why they dislike something. And also opinions are subject to change. I mean I look like I bandwagoned but I was always like dude what am I supposed to do against spirit and then I heard why she was so oppressive and it finally taught me why I didnt like her. You kinda understand?
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kinda do, but by all means, I don't see spirit get the hate deathslinger is getting. I don't mean on the 'needs a nerf' level, I mean beyond that. And all because he's 'unfun'.
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Well I think no killer should be removes nor get that much hate. I havent seen it but I dont doubt you. All it takes is ine PH DS or spirit who knows how to use their power to make you feel hopeless and just hate them. I contemplate quitting as soon as I get one of those killers who know how to abuse the bad mechanics soley because I want to be able to have a chance at living longer than 30 seconds
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I don't think one can actually make things better unless the game gets more complex, which seems to be something people (at least some loud ones) are very much against.
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The point him robbing people of chases is valid for a few reasons. You cant skillfully counter him and relies on him being bad, stealthing is boring for both sides and have multiple perks to counter, chases are fun and a killer that cancels that is flawed.
I seen you say people only disliked him when scott said it but honestly I hated him since release day 1. He can shoot over nearly every loop, he has an isnta shoot and he can zone by existing. I said this all day one.
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I dislike his free zoning by tapping M2 within range as you HAVE to respect it, he doesn't need to commit to it at all and if you're healthy its a free hit into immediate harpoon. That's all really. His Harpoon gun is silly concept wise but I love it and I like the western theme. I also love his map.
Then theres the fact that hes basically a ranged stealth killer. Thats kinda weird. Not a fan.
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Its not about complexity. I played spirit and with a good headset and only got 1 2k by a good team everyone else was 4k except maybe 1 or 2 3k and it wasn't because I was outplayed. The only complex thing about spirit is learning how to use your ears good.
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As you said, good headset. Which, lbr aren't usually exactly cheap. If people argue that certain perks shouldn't be a necessity, then equipment shouldn't be either.
(and then there's the issue of accessibility.)
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Survivor main detected
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Ok, and?
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There's no point in continuing a discussion with a survivor main because they are hell bent on making the game as easy as possible for themselves and won't be happy until BHVR replaces killers with bots.
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There's no point in continuing a discussion with a extremely biased user who assumes everyone is a survivor main when someone disagrees with them.
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until he is changed, hopefully
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Question is how. A lot of threads I have seen suggesting changes for him would either change nothing or make him unplayable.
If you give him the same wind-up time as huntress (which I see being called for regularly), you might easily screw those playing him over due to the limited range he has. You make his TR bigger/more noticeable, it might easily have the same effect. Not saying it definitely will, but it easily could. Especially in combination.
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My reasoning is that huntress has to wind up her hatchets while deathslinger can shoot his gun instantly.
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Yeah, but Deathslinger has a smaller hitbox and range for his weapon.
And a shadownerf of a random twist to the shot that has insta-shots go to the side (we tested )
Not against a wind-up time, but can we agree 3 seconds like huntress would be too much?
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I'd go PH style where he's slowed/has a cooldown after cancelling M2. Huntress has to wind up at 86% or whatever and move to zone you, and you may have to juke, but it's not overtly oppressive because the speed is balanced. Slinger basically does this at 110 by existing or by tapping ADS, a slowdown for 0.5-1s after coming out of ADS could help this.
Problem ofc is the fact he's not even that good a killer anyway, definitely no nerfs needed. I'd honestly consider making him 115 if you went the route of only nerfs to the speargun, otherwise you'd maybe want to basebuff the reload speed, range (18>20m?), and time it takes the chain to break. You're not wrong though, it's very hard - infact there are clearly a lot of people who don't like the PH changes (I love them personally, just hope the insta M2 bug is fixed) but even if they do turn out to not be impactful, I appreciate them because for both PH 3 days ago and Slinger, as they stood, were absolutely miserable to go against to the point I'd just say do something, anything, cause it can't be like this. If killers like Slinger, Freddy, Spirit, PH didn't exist I'd probably not even be a killer main, but there's too many absolutely miserable experiences as surv for me to main the role (these killers, bad random teammates, moris) whereas with killer it's basically just the maps since you can dodge keys, and even then bad maps aren't exclusive to killer too, with maps like like Shelter Woods, Sanctum of Wrath which are really ######### as surv due to lack of resources, and ones like The Game and Midwich, while being survivor sided maps, have really uninteresting gameplay.
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Hitboxes are a whole separate issue. I do think that ds should have charge up time, not as long as huntress considering her power is objectivity stronger.
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Giggity
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PH's M2 is an area attack, though, so the wind-down time for Slinger would have to be different (again, the miniscule hitbox and the twist to the aim)
I'm still saying the better solution (additional to wind-up) would probably dynamic map creation (so killers spawn unique map set-ups, not just extra stuff) and maybe more means of movement for survivors (like diving to the side)
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It’s because Deathslinger and Pyramid are, or were I guess now, the same. The ability to zone by faking and getting rewarded for essentially mouth-breathing. You’re guaranteed dead or to take a hit on smaller loops as he can shoot, pull you in, down you. Windows are a free hit too. Pallet drops? Free hit if you’re not injured with his shot. You don’t even need to be good at aiming. Get a cross hair and guess what? Easiest insta shots of your life. Suddenly you’re the best Death Slinger around. Much fun. Best tactic is just urbaning with spine chill and having hour long games to return the favour.
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- This still happens with Huntress, and every time I chuck a hatchet over a small dip in a loop, more often than not, the survivor takes a hit of damage and then wheels around, confused. So, it's not a Deathslinger exclusive thing, and people don't complain that Huntress can do it too.
- ignorance sure makes playing against a power less fun, but many survivors still don't know the intricacies of other killer powers (such as some kinds of curving on Billy or places where Myers can stalk through a hole in the wall) and survivors don't complain about those.
So, the questions you have can be answered by noting that all killers have these and that they are not the issues people have with Deathslinger. Getting better at both points is not going to make Deathslinger any more fun to play against.
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I sense an implied "Hags use NOED" here...
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Naw. Just her basics. also, from a mindboggling match today:
You're up against hag: He has someone hooked in the basement, and trapped the stairs with about 5 or more traps. due to kindred you saw where they are. she has not noticed you and there's obviously no way she will if you don't trigger the traps. Do you run in activating them all or do you sneak in?
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If she has STBFL, do not trigger the traps. You could be downed before you even get the unhook off. If she doesn't go ahead and pop them all if you are planning on being bold / she is around. Otherwise, crouch into the basement and force her to walk all the way back. If you can heal quickly, do it. If you cannot heal quickly enough, make the judgement if both of you can get out in time or if the injured survivor should hide in a locker.
ofc, teammates who don't understand any of this often mess everything up and bring the Hag at the worst possible times and/or get themselves downed while you are still in the basement with them (instead of forcing The Hag to pull someone out of a locker).
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And when a Deathslinger spams his ADS to force the survivor into juking and then just m1ing them? It's a lose-lose situation. If the survivor is about to reach a pallet or window, Slinger has a pointblank shot that he has to be REALLY boosted to miss. He has no counterplay at times.
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You cant dodge his shots. No counterplay isn't fun.
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He is unfun. Maybe if you could dodge his shots he'd be fine. And also I don't play fps games and I never lose with him. Hes like freddy and spirit. Too powerful without any skill involved.
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