The infamous infinite window is back
Why?
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Which one?
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In the groaning storehouse is the one I believe op is referencing
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Just break the wall lmao.
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Oh that one, yeah they need to take a look at how they're using breakable walls.
Like many people are saying they're being used as an excuse to make infinites.
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Probably groaning storehouse. The doorway next to the old good window can spawn a breakable wall now, which must be broken or else the window is back to be, well, godlike.
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This is why breakable walls are terrible for the game.
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Break the Wall. It takes 2 seconds, and afterwards the Building is quite weak, since they also removed the Pallets.
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Why? its taking away a survivors resource. Which in this case its an infinite.
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Just spend a few seconds to break the wall, bruh
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Yeah, but the killer has to spend time kicking the wall. The breakable wall is massively in the favour of the survivors.
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Because BHVR doesn't seem to know how to implement them. It feels like half the time BHVR uses them as a band-aid against near-infinites that they create (This window, the main building in Dead Dawg) or they're just in totally pointless locations that no killer would ever kick (top floor of Coal Tower, Badham Preschool end doors). Until survivors have to input effort to build breakable walls (which I would massively support), they're just going to be totally pointless at best, or a pre-dropped god pallet at worst.
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As Trapper main, breakable wall that next to infinite window is good...at least for trap Killer.
I can trap on both side and make it a dead end. Other Killers has to pay a few sec to break it though, its not like 2sec is too much compared to Trapper setup time.
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The killer would also have to spend time looping and eventually breaking the other pallet in the storehouse that they removed. Now, if the killer gets there early, they can at least break it early. It's really not much different than before, and certainly not massively in favor of the survivors.
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Yup, they've added more pre-dropped god pallets to a realm that absolutely didn't need pre-dropped god pallets. That window was fine with the open door next to it, what the literal ######### was the reasoning behind adding that stupid breakable wall there and removing a pallet from the building? This just pisses off both sides because now the building is next to useless after the pallet gets dropped and the wall is broken, but before that the killer absolutely has to take the time to break the wall because it's a god setup if you don't. I don't even know anymore...did they even think about this for more than 30 seconds??
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what do you mean 2 seconds?
The action takes two seconds, but what about going over there out of your way? not counting those seconds? To do it in the beginning of the match, you are sacrificing maybe 30 seconds. To do it in a chase you are sacrificing about 5-6 seconds which is essentially a free DS for the survivor, and enough time that they can easily take the window loop again another time, run out and head to the nearest pallet.
It's amazing that people have no idea how huge even a single second is on this game, considering the game's poor balance. Forcing the killer to waste time and break walls instead of chasing survivors in order to take out an infinite is utterly bad game design.
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This is why I dislike breakable walls in general.
They are implemented all wrong. A breakable wall should be a choice but not needed. It should add to the game while still giving both sides a chance if its left alone or broken.
Take this window the killer needs to break it or its a 100% safe window with a long loop. Now when the killer does break it it makes the storehouse less safe overall due to the removal of the pallets.
I just feel its not fun for either side this way.
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Agreed. There's few situations where a breakable wall works in the Killer's favor.
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haha I knew they'd add breakable walls to where they made holes on god loops
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Breaking a wall gives every survivor 15 seconds of distance. If you break walls you lose the game.
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This discussion is not about pallets but the implementation of breakable walls and our opinion on them.
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lol this thread, soft killers complaining about an infinite that's not an infinite. It's a pseudo infinite AT BEST.
Do any of you complaining actually KNOW what the infinites were like at release.
lol just lol.
Build a bridge.
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Yeah, there's a few of them. My personal favourite is the LT into LT that has become rather common on the reworked Macmillan maps, those are particularly fun.
And there's the god window they added to the top of Ironworks. And the Groaning Storehouse that you seem to be referencing. But of course , "JuSt BrEaK tHe WaLl" is the counterargument, like that's okay to force the killer to give you massive amounts of distance because you vaulted a window.
Seriously, why are there so many genuinely unplayable things in this game? God pallets, god windows, infinites, mega unsafe pallets... Well, at least the mega unsafe pallets can sometimes get you a stun. And they can be absolutely lovely when chained together.
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"Seriously, why are there so many genuinely unplayable things in this game? God pallets, god windows, infinites, mega unsafe pallets...." and campers, tunnelers, sluggers, moris, iri heads,....
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Haha nice burn, and all you did was hold a mirror up.
Judging from his hotake, I wouldn't be surprised if the irony is lost on him.
"JuSt BrEaK tHe WaLl"
Like seriously, poor killers have to break a wall? awww didums
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Just do bones!
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Which is a good thing, it's good for survivor until the wall is broken, then it's balanced or heavily good for killers. It force survivors to not stay on the same loop for too long, give the killer a chance at easier bloodlust, aka getting a hit/down.
I personally feel like breakable environment / gen that open doors is a great dynamic addition to the game and should still be a thing.
Balance should be looked out somewhere else than on those interactive aspect of the game.
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If that were true, then it would take 15 seconds to break a wall....
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None of those are map features that can potentially be in any or every trial regardless of what the players bring. Please provide some proper examples and don't make this an Us Vs Them pile of nonsense.
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I feel like they're ok for the fact that some killers can use their power to break it faster and then it's completely dead with no pallets around, also generators are usually near by which means if you run that way and your team is on a gen the killer is getting a free hit with no safety around
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Agreed. Breakable walls either fall under the "you have to break this structure to make it even remotely balanced" or "well, that one's not going down against any sane killer" and it's just not engaging. Load into Dead Dawg? Well, you'd better be ready to break that wall next to the upper floor window asap. Load into Groaning Storehouse? Better be ready to break the new god wall. Load into Badham? Break the House of Pain wall but don't touch the school ones to make the school stupidly unsafe for survivors. It's just not engaging gameplay. May as well just put a predropped pallet in front of the good ones like some people have said, since that's their function when they need to be broken.
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Because the devs did breakable walls wrong. They're making god loops but putting a breakable wall somewhere on the loop to say, "That's not a god loop, because you can just do this!". It's a god loop until you break that wall, which is guaranteed time wasted for the killer, and the survivor can run away to another loop and get a huge lead, etc. I don't know how they made breakable walls a survivor sided mechanic, but they did.
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And? His comparison was valid enough. Breakable walls ARE quite similar to pre-dropped god pallets. I fail to see how pallets are not at least partially related to a discussion like this- especially when you consider that at least on the Groaning Storehouse map, pallets were removed in favor of allowing an annoyingly good window to return for at least one chase (if the wall isn't already broken by the time a survivor is using the window). It's not whataboutism or off topic to compare something to another thing like it.
Personally, I'm fine with breakable walls being the replacement for doorways that balanced old annoying vaults. It's a happy medium between the old solid walls that used to be there, and the doorways that recently replaced the solid walls. With the exception of the upstairs of Ironworks of Misery, most of the breakable walls aren't even that out of the way/much of a time waster, if you find yourself in the area before a chase is initiated. Perhaps BHVR thought the vault nerfs went slightly too far and decided that it would be a good chance for them to implement one of their favorite new mechanics.
I will say that I'm not sure how I feel about the removal of pallets in favor of breakable walls+good windows. Not sure if that makes games easier or harder for low level players (killer and survivor wise). Either way, Groaning Storehouse is the only map I can think of that had that happen to it, so perhaps they're not really headed that way overall.
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Not really as pallets were originally designed as a defense mechanism for survivor to gain distance by dropping them. Over time they were changed onto something which are more about mind games bar a few really safe pallet exceptions and both sides have a choice in dropping or breaking them.
Breakable walls are a killer only mechanic and some are places in areas where any killer would be silly to break them like the coal tower and others you are forced too or it leaves a god loop and when the killer does there is nothing left in the area to actually use for mind gaming.
Take the groaning store house, this breakable wall recreated the god window so it needs broken and then they removed pallets which makes the building less mind gamble when it is broken. Imo that did not need to happen as it was fine once they added the open door to it.
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Read above. Breakable walls are a killer only mechanic while pallets are a choice to use for survivor or for a killer to break bar a few safe pallet exceptions.
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He was talking about safe pallets- pallets that you are forced to break to continue a chase, if a survivor drops it. That's why it's a fair comparison- to pre-dropped safe pallets only. (Typical pallets- not so much!)
Both breakable walls and pallets take 2.6 seconds to break. The biggest difference is that you have a little more catch up time with a breakable wall, due to the fact that you are not directly following the survivor- the wall is always at least slightly off from the vault. If you factored in a possible pallet stun (3 seconds) from a god pallet, however, the time taken to catch up from a (god pallet stun+forced pallet break) is probably about the same as a (breakable wall break+catch up time).
It's not about "are these things exactly the same?". They both serve virtually the same purpose- give the survivor distance and time in a chase IF the resource is available. The way I see it, BHVR replaced the mindgameable pallets in the Storehouse with the equivalent of a pre-dropped safe pallet- a god window that a killer can neutralize before anyone even has a chance to utilize it. The problem that I see with it is that the killer can just preemptively turn the building into something of a deadzone right from the start of the match.
Also- forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought you were arguing from a killer's perspective, like most people on the forum tend to do.
If you're talking more about it from a survivor POV, you're not wrong. It's overall a nerf for survivors and a buff for killers. If the killer spawns near main building and immediately breaks the wall, then that building is much less useful for survivors. As survivor, I enjoy having the god window available. But it sucks when I pull up to the Storehouse in a chase and all I have are the moderately decent vaults because the wall was pre-broken and there are no longer any pallets to reset bloodlust or mindgame for a little extra time in a chase.
I also definitely agree that pre-redesign Groaning Storehouse was more fair for both sides. While the window is powerful before the wall is broken, a killer can very, very easily turn the main building into a weak spot for survivors. I don't think that they should have removed both pallets- it would have been better to keep one of them and perhaps make the one pallet slightly less safe if possible IMO
But I'm also honestly expecting them to release a survivor with a perk relating to breakable walls. With more and more maps recieving breakable walls, I could easily foresee a breakable wall perk becoming meta if it is effective enough. Something that either allows survivors to rebuild breakable walls, or to break walls themselves.
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I am not talking from any sides point of view but how they are pretty bad for both sides and they are normally a need to break as there is a god loop or leave alone as it would be silly to break it on the newest updated maps.
Safe pallets are about gaining distance yes which the breakable walls can also do but that wasn't my point. Even at some safe pallets a killer can get a hit by using mind games such as pretending not to chase and then trying to hit them through it or letting them get away and then chasing again. Good survivors afterall never want to drop a pallet unless they really need too, especially safe ones.
When it comes to a god loop with a window and a breakable wall there are no mind games possible. A survivor just vaults it early and they are safe and the killer really has to break it, of course the killer could vault the window instead but that would just be silly. They then removed the other defenses around these so its really unsafe now for survivors after its broken so overall there are no mind games its just break it and then create a dead zone.
For me its all about choices in the game which imo these actually remove and in the cases where its better to leave them up they really serve no purpose and it would be better to just make them a solid wall instead.
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The whole point of breakable walls is to make the loop weaker. Now you know it spawns there, the next time you play on that map go to that area and break that wall.
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For all the braindead 'break the wall' comments: it's still an infinite (or very close) for M1 killers - even with the wall broken. Just had it happen to me yesterday. Funny how they removed all the pallets in the building, in exchange for an infinite. L E L. #bhvr
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Just break the door. There’s nothing wrong with 1 god door in the entire map, get over yourselves.
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Mind games can be done in many ways from distance or if close by. You can still mind game a killer by making them go another way than they think you are and vice versa. You don't have to be on top of each other.
This is what I was stating in my original post you quoted. They aren't what they could be and right now they seem more about needing to be broken to stop a strong loop and then they remove any mind games and other spots once removed they create larger dead zones.
These walls aren't really making the game more interactive.
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Idk how i feel about this. On one side i really hate having to break walls every game and i think that breaking them should be more of a choice thing like it is on midwhich but on the other hand i feel as though this is what was initially intended for the infinites and I think people would be thinking alot differently about this if the walls had come in first and not the open doorways for a few months beforehand.
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This breakable wall isn't even good, it's so far out of the way it doesn't even save time from just vaulting the window. This setup is really dumb and way to safe even after the wall is broken.
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walls aren't an objective
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There literally is. What do you plan to do if every single survivor runs straight for the god loop? Breaking the wall is a free escape for the survivor, not breaking the wall gives them an infinite. It's a lose-lose scenario
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Thats what I hope for.
I would like them to open up gaps in places so the killer has a short cut to places and cut down some stronger mindgamable loops but I would like them to not be needed and a choice or at the complete detriment of any survivors defense as they are seemingly now.
They should be more fun and I would prefer if these places were more of an oh ######### moment where they could barge through them instantly appearing causing jump scares which could be balanced by means of a time for the animation along the same time frame as the kicking one at the minute.
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I love how most people here are kinda making fun of the OP then when survivors complain about dull totems/hex totems, they are like "but my time!!!!, I'm not supposed to waste time!!!"
I'm not a big fan of breakable walls, in fact I hate them but yeah just break them and it's on your favor or play hag, nurse, Deathlinger, or something like that if you don't want to worry about them.
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Wth dude. 2 doors on dead dawg to avoid an infinite groaning storehouae has one. Anyone who complains about 6 seconds maximum breaking a door is just weird. Hell badham got its strength halved and the house of pain is gone too
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But once its gone the survivors have NOTHING
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I'm breaking so many walls, I feel like I'm a contractor instead of a killer...
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Once again you’ve failed to see the ramifications of the issue, breakable walls, which was the concern the entire time.
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