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(f)undying needs a nerf. The 9999th repost
I'm sure people have already complained about this, but it still has not been fixed so here i am.
it is too strong, does 2 things as 1 perk and has no downside. It is commonly used with ruin and is sometimes combined with tinkerer, which makes it even more powerful. Undying needs to be nerfed.
Trying to get rid of ruin + undying is a lose-lose situation. It takes too long to find and then cleanse all the totems if you get unlucky with undying. Not cleansing means you lose, cuz ruin is up and cleansing means you lose too, because it would be a massive time investment to get to it. It is highly unlikely that if you play soloq and are facing a killer with ruin + undying, that you will survive.
This needs to be fixed or might as well remove the DC penalty as it is absolutely not at all fun to play against any killer with this perk combination.
Comments
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You do realise the biggest counter plus the biggest downside is just do bones it is a hex perk aswell if you are having trouble bring a map, small game and detective hunch.
but let me throw this in so if i read this correctly your issue with undying is that if you get ruin not undying 1st it waste your time trying to find another lit totem and hope that its undying then finding ruin so it takes time away from the survivors trying to do their objective.
If that is the case would it be fair to say that DS or UB needs a nerf as it takes away killers time on doing their objective, cause if you down the survivor before 60 seconds since they got off hook the killer is unable to do their objective as they cant pick you up or slug so those two perks waste time for the killers to do their objective aswell.
Undying doesnt need a nerf or a buff its a good perk and it gives something that i have noticed a few survivors were asking another objective to do instead of just doing gens. So in a way killers are giving up two perk slots to give survivors something more to do in the game.
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okay, so, no. Undying is not a "good perk" in the sense of healthy for the game. It quite literally encourages the devs to not work on implementing more robust hex totem mechanics (such as place-able hex totems) because they can just point at Undying and say, "shut up, we gave you a perk to make up for what's wrong with the base game, so use it".
That's why I'm against Undying. It would also be better if Undying replaced the broken hex totem in the exact same spot rather than moving the hex totem somewhere else. That would already be a perk designed better.
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Placeable hex totems? dear god no sorry but that is awful idea killers already have little time to work with from patrolling, chasing, gen def, breaking pallets and walls now while all survivors got to do is gens. If we were going to force killers to place totems it just upright going to kill hex perks as why would a killer want to waste the little time they have avaiable to go and place hexes in what im guessing is pre determined spots around the map.
Also the idea of broken hex just popping back up in the same spot is not a good one as survivors will go ahh ruin is back up let me head up to the same spot and deactivate it again.
So again the current undying is a good perk as it gives killers more time in the game so there are more chases, which is the fun part of the game btw not holding m1 for a number of seconds. But it also has stronger counters ie doing bones bringing map, detective hunch etc so undying and ruin doesnt have a permanet lose lose situation and hey get them both you just took out two killer perks out of 4. Also to refresh a point i made survivors have been asking something to do more then just gens well the killers who bring undying and ruin is giving up two of their perk slots so you survivors have something else to do bar gens.
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I will just say that because someone else explain really well why undying is a fair perk.
When you say undying have no downside i think you should try to run the perk alone and see how good that perk is and try to find the downside
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The thing I hate about Undying in its current state is that it doesn't protect the hex totems it should the most: Devour Hope, Third Seal, and Huntress Lullaby - all of which on their own are way too vulnerable to being found and destroyed. My proposal is that it preserves tokens, but in return is nerfed to only show auras of survivors that begin cleansing totems. It's plain stupid killers can find survivors who accidentally wander by a totem (dull or hex), perhaps not even knowing it's there.
As far as its use with Ruin, there's not much that can be done to just minimize its usefulness with one hex perk without affecting all of them. I would therefore be totally open to a Ruin rework (or revert).
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Your problem isn't with undying, because if it was you would be complaining about undying and other hex perks as well. It's solely ruin that's giving you issues and ruin only rewards killers who apply pressure.
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I love undying as both a survivor and a killer!! I use it with blood favour and then put two haunted grounds in there for fun lol. I think it's really good and it takes up a perk slot with another hex, so it challenges me to focus more on the survivors, since I won't be able to bring all of the regular perks.
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I´m pretty sure Undying is due for a slight nerf. The main effect can stay imo. From my experience I can tell you that I´ve had many, many matches where both ruin and undying were gone in less than 2 minutes. It´s still a gamble for the Killer.
The aura reading is too much though, especially on mobile Killers. They can defend the totems relatively easy.
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Hex perks were designed to be OP but breakable.
But not 5 times. So nerf any hex perk so if it lasts throughout the whole match bc of undying pr nerf it. Or change base game mechanicd aka make the singleplayer that much better that players can handle fun like that.
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A perk with no downsides and several beneficial effects... hmm where have I seen that before
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Flip flop compared to that garbage decisive strike smh
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Why would you assume pre-determined locations?! That quite literally defeats the entire purpose of place-able totems. The idea behind place-able totems is that it does 2 things:
- Gives killers agency over where they want their totems and allows for more strategic planning.
- If your totem breaks, it's significantly more your fault than it is now, where totems can spawn next to a tree in a field on AutoHaven.
see:
I've explained this in other posts, but with Undying, having a broken totem instantly respawn in the same place (maybe with a different color until Undying is cleansed?) lets a survivor know that they have to go find another totem first and they don't accidentally keep finding and cleansing the same totem in different spots over and over until only Undying is left. It removes the randomness of cleansing, which is a good thing.
The current Undying is a badly designed perk and is bad for the game. Defending a perk's design by just saying that since it makes matches longer, it must inherently be good, because longer matches means more chases. I would also like to clarify a position: "chases" are not the nature of the aspect that is fun about the game but "killer-survivor interaction", which chases fall under. Killer-survivor interaction comes in many different forms, and I am the kind of survivor who enjoys the non-chase parts of that. And when you talk about counters, sure. All that the undying prevalence is doing is making it so that I can't bring in hex totems casually into a match anymore because of the increase in maps I see or suspicions of a totem-detection perk I have. So, in addition to being sucky as survivor, the side effects suck as killer. Finally, when you mention that survivors have wanted more things to do, survivors are not interested in a longer task list or a sequence of somewhat meaningless (internally meaningless as opposed to externally meaningless, and in some cases even harmful) actions due to the random nature of totems. Survivors are interested in more things that are less linear or cause them to interact with other parts of the game with which they don't typically interact. Undying is far from that.
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Reason i would assume pre determined spots would be for balancing reason so its not overly unfair for survivors who have to go and look for them best example would be the dream pallets you cant place them anyway it has to be in spots where pallets can spawn so i would imangine if the devs were ever going to do something like that it would be pre determined spots of where totems can spawn.
but again i think you missing my point on why im so against place able totems it is the matter of fact you are forcing the killer to waste time which they already have little of to find a place and place them for then giving the survivor a chance to break the totem so all that time placing them is wasted cause they found it and destroyed it. This idea is going to kill of hex totems builds as why would any killer bother to do it in the short time frame they have its not like survivors are going to wait for you to place totems before they work on a gen nope they are going to be on that gen asap. Of course seeing the counter argument well bring corrupt so basically if i want to do a totem build without a number of gens going i have to bring corrupt which only last 2 minutes then im already down a perk?
can you see the issue with placeable totems to much time consuming plus they can be destroyed still so all that effort and time you spent can be gone in a instant.
Undying is healthy for the game it does what it needs to do and that is slow down the game it creates more chases which i will always argue is the more interesting and fun part of the game, It gives survivors something else to do apart from gens but heres the kicker its still optional thing to do if it not bothering you then carry on as normal but hey if it is then get rid of the totems you have the tools to find them easily. Also yeah i know the risk of bringing two hex totems to a game especially with a team that has ways to find them quickly but it the risk im willing to take to have more fun longer games instead of games that can end in 5 minutes.
Its clear to me we both have different views on the matter and its unlikely we are going to agree with each other but in the end of the day we have no power on what happens to undying it is up to the devs but i do personally hope they dont change it as i do believe it has made the games more fun and balanced then it has been for awhile and it has been helping me improve my skills in pressuring map,gens,survivors etc as undying and ruin rewards killers who are able to pressure effectively.
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The combo of ruin/undying is extremely unhealthy for this game. Anyone who says just do bones is completely missing the point of how these change the entire game...even if every person focuses on totems.
Just like all the posts you see on here about OoO and how just about everyone complaining about it admits that the problem is not the perk itself but more the perk combined with SWF. The same is true for undying. It is not a problem itself but combined with ruin it's completely broken.
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