Hooks need a rework

dmhughes86

Being hooked removes almost all agency from a survivor. While I agree that a survivor should be altruistic, it is just not reasonable to expect all survivors to want to play this way. I also feel that staying on hook doesn't feel impactful for the person on the hook. The Killer is often short on information on the whereabouts of the other survivors, and therefore wants to keep track of the hooked survivor and knows that likely another survivor will be pulled to the hooked survivor. This often results in camping and tunneling. This is not toxic behavior this is just the result of the current game design. It is understandable that this is oppressive to the survivors and dissatisfying for the killers.

My suggestions -

Give survivors more things to do on hook

Let them yell (revealing killer for 2 seconds if within 20m) drains 10 seconds of time from hook phase

Let them kick to stun killer draining 10 seconds from hook phase (killer need to be right next to hook)

You could also give them options that allow them to unhook for different penalties. I think letting them interact with the entity would be a cool way of doing this. This also opens up an opportunity to make killer specific entities/penalties. You could also make a minimum time on hook. The entity might only give the worst options immediately but after a short period of time might give less severe options.

Some ideas for penalties for accepting the unhook gift from the entity

-10% movement speed

-33% generator repair speed

only able to slow vault

Entity will deny survivor pallets

Permanently exposed

Also as a way to prevent the killer from camping to force penalties you could have the entity stun the killer for 5 seconds allowing the survivor to make their escape. Probably should set a range though because I could see this being abused. Although would be kinda cool to see a survivor take the worst penalty to save another survivor nearby. Just an idea obviously these kind of things require a lot of testing.

Kind_Lemon

your issue seems to be that you don't see being on the hook as an actual threat and that you've been trained (by the game) to assume that you deserve more than one hook.

We could explore changing the hook mechanics to kill survivors twice as fast and only have one stage but infinite hooks, but that would require a PTB to function like an actual PTB, and that's never going to happen.

dmhughes86

I don't believe everyone deserves more than one hook. I just see a problem and I am trying to provide some solution. While I agree, that if mistakes were made or a killer pulls off something extremely skillful, that it should be reasonable for a possibility for a survivor to die on the hook the first time. I can't think of any simple changes to change the dynamic of the hook to make it more engaging. The idea I feel will work is to engage with the entity. I think that it makes sense that the entity wants to "play with it's food" and that as a killer you are a servant to the entity. This would mean that, providing the entity with the majority of survivors, would be the expected minimum for the killer.

I don't think dying on hook faster makes the game more fun or interesting for either killer or the survivors. I do think it would result in faster matches and people may be less likely to rage quit. However, I think it would make the game much more favored for the killer and it would probably encourage camping and tunneling even more. This could result in even more rage quits and overall dissatisfaction.

DaddyFatSacks420

Use breakdown

TeabaggingGhostface

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1714828#Comment_1714828

Underrated perk

DaddyFatSacks420

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1714851#Comment_1714851

The more survivors who have it in a match the stronger it becomes

TragicSolitude

I think the hook is a boring mechanic in general. As killer, it's repetitive and not satisfying. As survivor, it's basically like being put in a time out during which you just... wait. Nothing interesting happens while you're on the hook. Possibly you spam a button, which is annoying, stressful on a person's joints, and bad for the gaming hardware. And even if you spam the button for the entire time, you may die just because no one felt like rescuing you. There's no guarantee the time you wasted on the hook will be rewarded with anything.

One of DbD's fundamental problems is that survivors spend most of their time doing nothing, whether they're on a hook or repairing a gen (which is for the most part just holding a button for 80 seconds multiple times in a match) or slugged on the ground. Woo.

Plus, like you were saying, camping the hook. It's boring for everyone. But it's possible the killer only knows where one survivor is, that one on the hook, and if they go patrol gens, well, it's a huge map, and their hooked survivor might be saved and healed before the killer even finds a gen being worked on much less another actual survivor. If the killer does stay to keep an eye on their bait, then the person on the hook is just bored as crap because they're in time out with a nanny waiting to bop anyone who comes near.

You can try to add things to the hook mechanic, but in the end it'll probably always come down to just being a possible 2-minute time-out for someone playing a game (Everyone's most fun thing ever, right? Being in time out?), and even if it's somehow made more interesting for survivors it'll still be one of the least interesting ways of killing someone ever put in a horror game. At least, that's how I feel about it.

So, you're not wrong, the hook needs a rework. I just think it needs a much bigger rework than we could come up with because it would require drastic changes to the gameplay.

dmhughes86

Personally, I don't think a time out for getting caught is that bad. I don't think that the survivor should just have nothing to do but I think eliminating objective time is necessary. I think one of the main problems with the hook is the uncertainty with whether one of your teammates will rescue you. If you aren't grouped with friends it is hard to trust them to come get you resulting in many people just dying on hook or dcing just to get to their next match. Honestly, I think that there should be a minimum time on hook before being rescued or being able to attempt an escape.

I am just spitballing ideas here, I feel like there are some significant flaws in the game design and I don't think it is resolvable with perks or such. Another idea I had was that after two stages on hook that the survivor would be teleported to the basement hooks. Obviously, this doesn't solve the lack of things to do on hook. However, at least if you are camped outside the basement you have more ways of being rescued. Also punishes you more for getting caught next to the basement. You could also make some kind of totem to have in the basement that when cleansed would stun the entity for 15 seconds releasing anyone on hook and preventing any rehooks during that time. This would be a once per game option.