so is this summary of the past 3-4 years correct ??
Game was heavy survivor sided at the start + killer was unfun to play.
Next, lots of survivor nerfs happen and killer buffs. game becomes somewhat balanced with still tons of crutches on both sides ( e.g. OP instaheals, Moris) and unpolished gameplay.
Next, mostly survivor nerfs keep happening while killers are being reworked/buffed + new released killers dont even need perks anymore as they can ignore pallets (deathslinger, pyramid head).
Which brings us to the current state:
-solo survivor unplayable
-Kill/escape ratio shows to be heavy killer sided (even with taking the stats with buckets of salt)
-crossplay games are boring for both sides: console killer= ez survivor win. Console survivors= ez killer win.
-survivor gameplay in general became unfun, Killer gameplay IS STILL frustrating and unfun to play for most people. Matches where 2 survivors escape feels like a loss for killer (as well as some matches with only 1 survivor escaping). Meanwhile SWF is still being targeted to be broken because those games feel frustrating as killer (its still easy to get a draw as killer but it feels like a loss).
-Devs are still reworking weak killers while the kill ratio is already +50% for every single killer.
so summary of the summary: start: survivors OP and fun while killers are weak and unfun/frustrating
now: survivors weak and unfun while killers are strong and unfun/frustrating
future: looking how devs are responding to everything it seems like even more bad news for survivor creating an even more unbalanced gameplay experience for survivors.
As this post is mostly saying that the game is killer sided , it would be interesting to see if killer mains agree/can admit the current unbalanced state of the game (taking into acount that killer gameplay is most of the time unfun/frustrating). I think the biggest flaw with the community AND THE DEVS, is the lack of making the distinction between balance and gameplay experience.
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The game isn't even remotely killer sided. This is generally agreed upon by all the high hour/high rank community. Survivor is still very much the power role.
Solo survivor is also not unplayable whatsoever. I play strictly solo and win the vast majority of my games. I also don't run almost any of the meta second chance perks either.
You are also putting way too much game balance interpretation into those statistics that are flawed for a multitude of reasons. They make killers look much stronger than they actually are.
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I would say the problem is that most survivors are simply not good, SWF has many info advantages, but the biggest advantage is having 4 good players. One weak link can change the entire game. Spreading out at the beginning is important, but every time at the start of the game someone wants to repair the same generator. (15% slower)
Or one player waits at every pallet for the killer instead of holding w.
Im playing most of the time solo survivor and depending on my teammates it feels like i play two different games.
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The stats are for all ranks arent they? Its all because a lot of survivors i go against play so stupidly, even at rank 1. If you go against a well balanced team of survivors you will have a very low chance of success without slugging and a bit of proxy camping
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You lost me at this game is killer sided
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I'm sure the 30-35% of escapes are killers playing survivor, because every killer say this game is survivors sided, and they always escape
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You can be sure that a good chunk of survivor deaths are from tilted survivors or ppl who just don't care.
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I think you're missing one crucial fact. They nerfed everything fun and interesting on both sides but kept things still strong for the sake of balance. Nobody enjoys those changes on either side. Stop trying to please everyone.
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I just played Survivor tho, I won. How can you call that unplayable?
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Wrong. SWF is the powerrole not survivor.
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OP you forgot to mention Dedicated servers, hitboxes big like a refrigator.
rank reset from 10 to 5 so every survivor can reach rank 1 and cant do anything against experienced killer to make it as easy as possible while the real red rank solos suffer from that.
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I can play 50 games in a row with 4k using spirit.
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Its pretty much SWF stronger then > killer, killer stronger then > soloq
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Dude just say PC is better with that crossplay assessment. The other side already winning while you're still loading into the game is an issue.
And solo is fairly balanced assuming no one DC's and the killer doesn't camp as it takes a coordinated effort to un- ######### a dead teammate.
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Wrong. A good group of solo survivors is still the power role.
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something like that doesnt exist anymore since ranking is so easy that every potatoe reaches red rank.
if that really exists im really wondering where all the good survivors are in my soloQ games.
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The statement was referencing good solos vs swf. It was not referencing the average group of solos vs swf.
Those are two very different things.
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And im saying that is not a thing anymore.. so why do we even discuss about it? Devs made rank reset from 10 to 5 just for killers.. now every trash player is a rank 1 and gets demolished. so please lets first talk about serious issues before saying "survivors are still OP" or whatever.
why didnt you talk about the amount of dead ends on maps?
Bloodlust, Aim detection, 90% unsafe pallets in every map, the potatoes in red ranks, the hitbox 3x bigger then the actual models of survivors, the garbage dedi server to give killers undeserved hits?
why are you just talking about YOUR side, and im sure you're a killer main who is entitled to his opinion.
go play a little bit survivor, play on killer sided maps with potatoes who just hide also play against a mori and iri head using huntress.
before even talking about balance play the other role, i dont see any issues playing killer nowadays the only time a killer is struggling its because a cordinated team what is barely the case.
i know what im talking about, im a Huntress & Nurse player and 90% of my matches i get my 4K with 2-3 gens left.
stop with the entitledment and be serious, how hard is it to play killer?
i tell you when you have a hard time
-4man swf on comms, + Ormond offering + key + meta perks
now tell me how many times do you get that? 1x in 100 games probably.
not only that.. killers who are supposed to be rank 10 get boosted by rank 1 potatoes who are supposed to be rank 15 and as soon the killer gets some good players he comes to the forum and whines and cries how unbalanced the game is... yeah sure bud.
if you win 9/10 matches easily and start complain at the 10th game because you lost.. sorry but that is nothing else then entitlement.
"OMG IM THE KILLER, THE POWERROLE, I NEED TO 4K EVERY SINGLE GAME DOESNT MATTER HOW MUCH MISTAKES I HAVE DONE, DOESNT MATTER, EVEN WHEN I CHASE A SINGLE SURVIVOR FOR 3 MINUTES I SHOULD STILL HAVE TIME TO WIN"
that is the entitletment of killer mains and dont even try to prove me wrong these are facts.
Killers have nowadays so many advantages as i mentioned Bloodlust, unsafe pallets, smaller maps, insta downs, moris, soloQ full with potatoes, aim detection, dedi servers, hitboxes 3x larger then the actual model etc
so please.. stop with this BS. learn the game, git gud and accept it when you lose 1 time out of 10 matches.
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Lol. You sound more toxic and entitled as than the other guy. Anybody can list the advantages of either side and make it all seem op.
There are 4 survivors, survivors have 2 health states b4 they get downed, when hit survivors get a free speed boost, they can be hooked 3 times, have hatch, if hatch is shut the exit gates light up, run nearly as fast as killers without bloodlust, bloodlust takes awhile to build up and it's possible to slow its build up, it's very easy to force a killer into losing bloodlust, can stealth, have a bunch of perks that either enhance abilities or straight up cover up mistakes, have access to pallets, are faster at vaulting than killers, have a 3rd person camera, dedicated servers make killers get sucked into animations even when it doesn't do anything (grabs, lunges, etc), you can actually play with friends as survivor, can fat shame the killer in areas, don't usually glow red like the killer, killers are big so they can be more easily seen, etc, etc.
There's a lot more advantages I could write but they don't matter. None of it matters at all.
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Woah buddy relax.
I probably have more hours at rank 1 on both sides than you and all your friends have combined. Based on a lot of these opinions I think you need a few more hours into the game. There is just way too many wrong statements in this post to unpack.
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argue with me and dont write a empty text. if you cant argue stop talking about balance simple. have a great day
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Trying to rationalize with someone already known to be irrational wouldn't make much sense would it.
You mention many game mechanics in a way that illustrates that you don't understand the game at a fundamental level. This is why I can already tell you're a newer player. People with more experience don't think a lot of those things.
Want to prove me wrong? Link your profile
You've already come at me extremely aggressively with insults and name calling. Why would I assume there would be any constructive conversation to be had here? Insults like that are against the forums ToS.
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Current balance:
1. Survivors are desensitized with losing.
2. Killers are desensitized with winning.
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This is not generally agreed on, and contradicts the released stats.
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The 30-35% survival rates are for red rank killers in all their matches, including all their opponents who aren’t red rank. That’s why that chart has 8-10% higher kill rates across the board on all killers compared to the All Ranks chart.
The devs haven’t shown a chart yet that is specifically for games where all five players in the match are red rank. My guess is those kill rates will be more in line with the All Ranks chart.
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KIll rate % is not a stat that determines the success of killers...AT ALL. You can get 3 kills and still depip. You can get 4 gold medals and safety pip. Meanwhile back on earth, survivors score 2 silvers and 2 golds and pip for hiding all game, doing half a gen and totem and maybe a save and heal. Which isnt even remotely as difficult as catching SOME survivor players just once.
I agreed with you about the enjoyment of playing killer, 1 chase at the start will cost you 2 gens and you are often doomed if you take that chase and doomed if you don't.
Solo survivor is significantly more enjoyable by running Kindred which IMO is one of the most single powerful perks in the game, more so than DS, UB and BT (in combination excluded).
Information is power and survivors have too much through their capacity to collect it. This is the crutch of good SWF and it eliminates a killers greatest mechanics for success. It quite literally means that survivors have infinite terror radius warnings with satellite link. As it is, most killers are bots because they have bot like mechanics and are up against a variety of fundamental flaws built into the game.
The devs really need to consider implementing VOIP as a standard inbuilt feature so that they can begin to balance the game around the power of communication and give killers better capabilities to trap, catch and funnel survivors with better map design, better map ideas (why is it always pallets?), implement killer operated map traps and the ability to not only open loops (breakable doors) but also close them as they please. Good survivors know the maps and exploit it.
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It is by the high rank/high hour community and just simply most people in general that have a decent amount of time into the game. As already said, those stats are flawed for a multitude of reasons.
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People take the kill rate percentage at face value far too much without thinking about it.
A 50% kill rate is NOT a balanced state.
There are 5 outcomes for kills, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4. The simple fact of the matter is that either side of 2k, the results that push the value upwards are easier.
It is incredibly hard to not get a single kill. Even when you're having a bad game, it's usually possible to camp a single person do death in the end game. If someone unhooks them, hit that person during the unhook and they have no chance to get away before being downed. Eventually one person will die. To get a 0k the survivors either have to be incredibly coordinated or the killer has to be pathetic.
In a match where a killer has a 3k, it's a lot easier to bump that up to a 4k than to get 1 more kill on top of 1 or 2 kills. You can slug people for the 4k. You can find the hatch and know where to go to shut it. Most maps have a decent chance that with some thought you can get betwee nthe gates fast enough, or move to have vision of the lights fast enough to prevent the 3rd chance escape. One it's down to 2 survivors, it's rare that survivors do anything to progress the game except hope the other guy dies first.
So simply put, it's easier to get a 1k than a 0k, and it should be. And with smart play, the 4th kill is easier than any of the other 3, which it should be in a 1v1 situation. Those are always going to skew the value to above 50%, even though the actual performance in those matches doesn't change to the same degree.
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It’s a fair assessment.
I’ll agree the game is killer sided (not many, or any, killer mains ever will) and SWF is the only weapon capable of countering that, aside from DS, UB, DH, BT and OoO on Solo queue side.
If SWF was ever balanced or removed I wouldn’t really mind killers drastically getting nerfed.
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I played 7 matches with 2 friends of mine the other day. This was my first time playing SWF since early 2018 (I usually play killer or solo survivor as I'm rarely online at the same time as them).
Even though we played without coms we won 6 out of 7 matches EASILY. It really felt like easy mode and I didn't even get to interact with the killer during a few matches as all of us can loop, work on gens while injured, run decent builds.
Do you have any idea how quickly gens pop when ALL survivors work on gens at all times and NO ONE goes down QUICKLY ?
If we played in a full 4 man WITH coms we would probably fall asleep while curbstomping red rank killers.
The game is NOT killer sided. Most survivors are just terrible at the game making the statistics trivial.
You don't balance around people that drop god pallets at 5 gens after getting hit.
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There is no reason to bring up the easy experience that you got from 7 games while there are stats from hundred of thousands of games available.
Gens will always pop quick at the start of the game, the first gens that pop give close to 0 indication in how the game will turn out, as the map becomes smaller to patrol and pallets close to those last gens will be used up quickly.
Saying that the stats are trivial because survivors are terrible bad at the game is just redicilous. The stats are based on a population, it just doesnt make sense to think that terrible/dumber players are more attracted to playing survivor instead of killer.
This game is FAR from survivor sided, im not sure how you can still say/believe that its not killer sided, its a fact that at red ranks 3 out of 4 survivors die --> not balanced
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So survivors are mostly terrible and killers are mostly good at the game? If this is the argument to say the stats are flawed, then it is a double-standard and biased reasoning.
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So bringing up my easy experience in a SWF team with 2 experienced players (without coms) is trivial because "sTaTiStiCs"?
The only thing the statistics prove is the fact it's BY FAR too easy to get to red ranks as survivor.
There's a ridiculous number of red rank survivors who:
- drop pallets after getting hit
- urban evade around the map instead of doing their objective
- don't know how to counter killer powers
- don't repair gens when they're injured
- don't know how to chain loops
- don't know how killer perks work
- don't even look behind them in a chase
- have the decision making of a yellow rank survivor
If survivors hide whenever they can, mess up every decision and can't loop a killer for AT THE VERY LEAST 1 minute* they shouldn't even be allowed to play on red ranks. Personally I wouldn't even allow these kind of people to hit purple ranks.
If anything ranking up should be a lot more difficult as survivor so all the mediocre players stay at yellow/green ranks instead of red/purple ranks.
That would clean the statistics quickly.
* = referring to consistent performance rather than a single chase. Everyone messes up at times but many red rank survivors CONSISTENTLY go down in seconds.
EDIT: Wrong. What I'm saying is hitting red ranks as survivor is by far too easy. I've literally seen red rank survivors with as little as 2 days of playtime. Do you think they belong to red ranks when the chances are high that they don't even know every map?
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I think most people in general are just inexperienced. I doubt too many people are going to commit the thousands of hours to learn every map / loop / etc in and out. I will play survivor and 80-90% of the games the killer is getting clapped. The other games are my team getting pubstomped by a killer who actually knows what they are doing and is running the meta / mori's.
I have seen a baby dwight with less than 100 hours at red rank. All you have to do is put on BT/DS, do a gen, farm a save or two, run the killer for 30 seconds, and you safety pip as survivor.
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I think that summery is wrong. I play mostly solo survivor, and i still escape 3/4 of my games, and survivor is way more fun than killer, even though i play both sides.
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You basically proved my point. Survivor requires too much experience to do well and killer does not. Then when a killer becomes really experienced they almost never lose.
In contrast, a baby killer can use NOED, Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer, BBQ or any combination thereof and also easily pip and get a lot more points to boot.
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I mean, it's really not that mechanically difficult to play the survivor. It's mainly just knowing the loops and where to stand to avoid mindgames, maybe some attack dodging here and there in between holding M1. Or not even holding M1 if you know the menu trick, I don't bother holding M1 anymore personally. The team is allowed a ton of mistakes cumulatively, which are more just abused by the survivors to screw around than anything.
Killer requires significantly more mechanical skill to play, is to a large degree much more stressful, requires more bloodpoints to play add-ons unless you are playing the strongest killers who don't need them, requires much better decision making in general, etc. You can stomp on noobs but once you hit survivor players of your experience/skill level it's not easy at all unless you are playing nurse or something. Most of the really good survivors play in SWFs since they know solo Q is hot garbage right now so the lobbies are even more stacked once you do run across them.
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I mean solo not unplayable like people say I mean your not going to win every match like if you were in swf group but you can still get out and win.
this game not killer sided at all.
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Ah, solo queue is hot garbage? In other words, tremendously and excruciatingly imbalanced is what you intended to say. They play SWF because they know they will lose playing solo.
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No. Your biased and inaccurate timeline doesn't resemble reality. Good day.
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Only if you hit a killer of a high experience level and your teammates are not. I have had plenty of good solo Q teams, but I have had plenty of 100 hour rank 1 baby dwight solo Q teams to go face off against killers with thousands of hours running meta builds with. I still win the overwhelming majority of my survivor games, but I don't like being put into completely unwinnable situations because of the matchmaking. It doesn't happen enough it's a huge problem to me, just really annoying when it does.
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strong arguments.
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Yes indeed, bringing up your personal experience is trivial because sTAtiStICs. at least you got that right. I dont know why youre listing bad plays of survivor, i can just make a list of bad plays of killer, that has nothing to do with the actual balance, survivors make the same amount of mistakes as killers. People that play main killers arent superior humain beings compared to survivors. There are as much bad survivors as killers, no reason to assume otherwise. I really suggest to check the wikipage for the word "statistics", seems like you didnt have the correct education (yet) on that subject.
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I honestly can't tell if you're being serious lmaooooo
Survivors weak?? The game is LITERALLY dictated by survivors. EVERY single stage of the game is dictated by survivors
As a killer you have to take advantage of survivor mistakes, survivors not doing gens, weak survivors (if there are any)
There is literally nothing a killer can do against a team of decent non potato survivors.
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Thanks for making it obvious that you're just trolling.
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you can't use any stats you get from games because red ranks are easy to hit so the amount of average players you get mess up stats that can be used to represent games because 1 bad player drags the rest with them. just look at the killer stats the devs released they themselves are flawed because killers in a lost game usually can get 1 kill and in games they win they get at least 3 kills with few games where they get 2 kills which brings the kill ratio up to around 65% which is what we saw the majority of killers had.
when talking about balance you need to hypothesize and refer to how games usually play out to a reasonable degree. example, against a good swf trapper will get destroyed due to his traps getting disarmed or called out and since he lacks any other power to stop the survivors they will simply gen rush and win. of course something can happen to change the outcome of that but in the majority of cases that is what happens.
now do that and assume its a swf that know how to play well against every killer and the only killers you get that can defy that logic is nurse and spirit. all other killers can be played around or have enough of their time wasted for a good swf to rush gens and win meanwhile its at least a 50/50 against a good spirit at interactions or against a good nurse you will just go down unless you get lucky with some LOS but even then you will just last an average amount of time. those are the only killers that can be used as a example of this game being killer sided yet because of the nature of this game and the amount of other killers you could play as it doesn't even make sense to say this game is killer sided.
yes there are outliers to that way of thinking but logically speaking about the how the majority of games play out we can safely assume that this game isn't killer sided.
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Exactly this. The fact of the matter is that 4 good survivors will shred just about every killer they go against (hence the infamous depip squad people talk about on here). Just 90% of the players in this game are genuinely just not very good. And it only takes 1 weak link to tank a team.
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You know killer depip squad is from the early days right? has nothing to do with the current state of the game. Yes, a strong SWF team will destroy most killers, just as a strong killer will destroy most survivors. Thats something that will still happen for both sides, no matter how unbalanced or balanced the game is. If all killers of the whole community would have 90% 4k's, you can still make a seal team that wins most games. It litterly has nothing to do with balance. balance is 2k average, which is far from the current state, not even 1 out of 20 killers has a 2k minimum NOT A SINGLE 1.
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You might wanna read a thing or two about statistics yourself because you clearly don't understand what variables are.
According to the latest statistics Nurse is BY FAR the weakest killer in the game and BARELY gets a 57% kill rate.
Clown has a 66% kill rate.
So Clown is CLEARLY stronger than Nurse because "sTaTiStiCs BrO".
Another thing you don't seem to understand is there's no such thing as half a kill. 1 survivor is 25% - go figure.
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I never mentioned anything about comparing clown with nurse or whatever killer, thats a whole other subject.
And what is this half kill talk? where is that even mentioned. youre making things up, and then say i have to read up on statistics, what?
Plz dont derail, thx.
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The now is still wrong. the killers still are weak and survivors still dominates. That has never changed. If people solo queue and dont' work together, then the killer can have an ok game, but if survivors try/work together, killer will lose 9 out of 10 times.
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