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The Coward's Way Out (Suicide on the Hook)
I want to start out by saying that this is not bait. This is an assessment. Both as Killer and Survivor, I've noticed an annoying tendency for people to kill themselves on their very first Hook. While I consider this a vast improvement over disconnecting, it is still the path of the coward. I wish there was a nicer way to say it. When I'm playing Killer it isn't too troubling. I know it will cut down on my Emblem potential but beyond that, some idiot has just taken the game from a 4v1 to a 3v1. What is worse, they don't even let their fellow Survivors milk that Hook for a Generator. These are the people you are hurting:
- Yourself. Every time you take yourself out early from a game that has angered you or seems too hard you have robbed yourself of a golden opportunity to learn and get better. If you think that game is lost, you can play it without stress. Try new things out, play it without anything hanging over your head. Why give up a free tutorial. Some lessons are hard, but those are generally the ones you get the most out of. And believe it or not, what you have already decided is a lost or "not fun" game might turn out to be a win and a blast. To put it simply, "you are leaving money on the table."
- You are screwing over the other Survivors in a horrible way. One less person, even someone who was on the hook, takes tremendous pressure off the Killer and puts it squarely on the backs of the others. When you do it early, you might as well be kicking them in the groin on our way out the door. Why would you do this? What kind of low life do you have to be to look at three other people on your team and say, "screw them" with a shrug? You aren't punishing the Killer in any meaningful way if that is your intent. You are hurting them.
- You are hurting the community. The more often this happens, the more it affects the Meta itself. How hard are your teammates going to work to try and get to someone they don't know is even going to wait for them. I just played a game where I watched an OUTRAGED David tea-bag at the Jake who literally sacrificed himself out just as the David fought through hell to get there. It wasn't that the David didn't get there in time. The Jake just shrugged and said, "see ya" and took himself out. There are going to be games where you want that rescue but people just aren't that into risking it all when they don't trust that you are going to do the right thing and wait. I expect, although I have not tested the theory yet, that the rise in people being left to hit the second stage on the Hook is probably in correlation to the people who sacrifice them on themselves on the Hook. Why is Self Care coming back like a Storm? Survivors, who are not in a SWF, have no trust in each other.
There are only three rules that I follow, and think all of you should too:
- Don't cheat either with hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect; if you start a game, finish it.
- Be humble in victory, and gracious in defeat.
I will defer the point that sacrificing yourself on the Hook "is" finishing the game to the letter of the law. It is a valid choice. However, it is a violation of rule #2 in spirit. You are taking the coward's way out. And if you walk the path of the coward, it can only mean one thing right?
Comments
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I completely agree. I don't think it's ever going to happen but I'd love the devs to remove the option to suicide on hook.
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Well I rarely sacrifice in the hook but when I do it is because the killer is camping really hard and basically won't let me have any kind of fun so I cba, kill myself, forget about that match and play another game.
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If someone kills themselves on hook (or DC's) when I'm playing killer, I almost always just sigh and let the rest of them escape, unless it's late into the match. It's not fun for either side, and the only time I've ever done it is if I had an emergency, or that time when PS4 was broken and the game just didn't register my struggling.
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Yeah, but if the Killer is camping you, then you can buy them time. It is a courtesy that I'm sure you would appreciate yourself if you were working Generators and you saw that. The best way to cure a Killer of camping is for the rest of the team to milk those camped hooks and get everyone else out. If I hit a camping Killer, I'm there till the bitter end because I'll have him through two whole stages.
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The only time I ever suicide a hook is either when my game doesn't register me hitting my X button, or my controller just dies at the worst possible time, or the killer is clearly camping my hook. The second one, sure, I could sit there and wait, but I didn't buy the game to sit and stare at my TV with zero input. I'd rather just leave the game and go to my next one than sit for 2 minutes while 3 people edge their way to me and pretty much do nothing.
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I'd love for the second stage of the hook to be changed in a way similar to the second stage of Pyramid Head's cages, where you have to hit skill checks to survive. If you don't, your progress goes down, but you don't die immediately.
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I don't do this exactly. I play the game, but I do tend to lighten up a bit so they can earn more points. And I'm far more likely to let them get the hatch. Sometimes I'll even let them out but I don't "farm" all that often because nobody learns anything from that. I will play the game but in 2nd Gear. That way they get practice and points. I get some points too, and can try out some new mind games, or whatever. I don't have a problem with your choice here. In fairness, I've done it too from time to time. I just don't go this route anymore, because I want them and me to get something from the game more than just points.
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I can't imagine you're going to get a lot of people arguing that Suicide on Hook is a fair and sporting way to play.
Although this is The Internet Dot Com so it has surprised me before but outside of a few specific scenarios (like you're with a crew of Blendettes you can see hiding in three different corners while you hang on the hook), I think most everyone would agree that it's a ######### move to pull...
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I don't exactly just let them escape free - I'll play the game, hook them twice, then probably just ######### around on the map. Maybe see what I can do with a specific character, practice my chasing or pathing in general. I just think it's one of the least fun things to happen when somebody insta DC's because they got downed.
Or I just have the rest of the survivor's run to me, basically asking for death. That always sucks too, but I get it.
I wish they would make struggle more like PH's cages, with skill checks instead of mashing. It probably wouldn't solve much, but it'd definitely feel more interactive, and it would at least stop people from instantly suiciding on hook.
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It's really not that deep. There are so many instances of clearly unwinnable games or downright unfun ones for various reasons. It's pretty easy to tell when you have no possibility of winning a game based on what your teammates are doing when you're hooked or how many gens are done relative to how much time has passed. I don't blame anyone who would rather lose in 3 minutes than 10 minutes when they only have a limited amount of time to play each night.
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Except that this is a selfish, and egotistical way of looking at it. YOU are deciding there is no possibility to win; quite a ego you have there. But in this game there are several ways to win, earn points, and advance Emblems. Leaving early denies all your fellow Survivors that. If you aren't up to play the game to the end in the first place, don't bother playing at all.
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Yes, this drives me crazy. I can't tell you how many games we have pulled out in a 3 v1, that the guy that killed themselves on the hook could have also enjoyed.
But, OPs points are completely valid, you destroy the game for the other survivors and make it exponentially harder to win. Also, you steal a hook rescue and possibly a heal from those of us trying to pip. I know rank means little, but for some of us challenging ourselves to meet goals, you take that opportunity from us.
It is like I tell my friends when you lose three gens early, the game is still far from over. You can still 4k with 2 gennys left. Same with getting hooked early. Hang around, pun intended, and give the team a chance to make some plays.
Or at least let us get that save!
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For me the only valid reasons to suicide on hook are:
- Team mates are sandbagging you.
- Killer or team mate are hacking/cheating.
- You have something irl to deal with.
Otherwise I agree with everything else you mentioned
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If I can play devil's advocate here. What's the problem with being selfish? No one will repay me in someway for the time I lost in the match. Right? Time is something that never comes, when it goes, it goes forever and no one can ever point a finger to you for being selfish. Talking about selfishness. You want them to stay on-hook with a camping killer so others and YOU can escape. Isn't that being selfish as well? Because YOU want, they need to sacrifice themselves for you and that's selfish as well.
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If my teammates are playing selfishly, then I reserve the right to be just as selfish and peace out of the match.
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I've found the best thing you can do there is to stay on hook as long as you can to spite the killer.
1.) If he's facecamping, every second you stay on it costs him blood points and pips (as proximity to hooked survivor gets dinged really hard). If he basically stays camping 1 survivor for the full 2 minutes, he'll get 0 points for that medal.
2.) If you stay the full 2 minutes, that's conceivably 3 gens your team does... which again dings his bottom line hard as killers who let gens get done quickly lose points to another medal.
3.) He's getting no chase EXP for 2 whole minutes unless other survivors are hovering. Which hits his 3rd medal hard.
4.) If you have Kindred - especially if you have Kindred - you are helping your allies immensely by being on hook. They can see each other to heal, they can see where the killer is if he's camping.
5.) You might yet get rescued underneath his nose by a teammate with Borrowed Time and still be in the game.
You wanna get back at the killer? Make him wait every second for his sacrifice. Sacrificing yourself just gives him what he wants and screws over your other 3 teammates.
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This. I never understood people who thought they were getting back at the killer by dying early. The best way to get back at them is to stay on the hook the entirety of it.
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Since instances are warranted tho if you are on a hook solo and 3 others are swf and not even attempting to get you what's the point?
If your teamates sand bag you , body block you or troll what's the point?
If the killer on first hook is already face camping what's the point?
If you really wanna keep people from suicide on hook then they need to up the points for the length you are on the hook , then double the struggle points etc try to give an incentive to hanging in there. Bp is the only thing worthwhile if the teams garbage I'd rather leave now and get a normal match if I had inventive to stick around even in a bad match I wouldn't suicide. I only solo play also so I don't care about my team because 9 / 10 games I'm the one dead whether I did all the gens got all unhooks even if it's my first hook they all leave.
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I'll say this: if the killer isn't camping and the other survivors let you go to stage 2... you're 100% justified in not struggling. That's fair.
If the killer is camping though, you make him wait every second... and hopefully appreciate the fact your allies aren't dumb enough to pay off the strategy and are just working on gens until you die to make your death count against him.
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Absolutely I do. And I do the same in return. Survivors have to play different from the Killer. If they don't work as a team, they lose. Playing selfishly, or simply leaving the game like Cartman with a "screw you guys... I'm going home" is the antithesis of how Survivors advance and win games. Nobody enjoys sitting on the Hook, myself included, but I do it. I owe it to the other Survivors to do my best and fight for every second, as that is also their time. The only person in the game that profits from selfish Survivor behavior is the Killer.
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Yeah this thread is really only about one thing. It's not the Survivors job to provide entertainment to the Killer. If they don't enjoy the fact they've left the game early that's their problem.
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We can agree to disagree. It means someone is afraid of challenge, of facing something hard. That is not a failing of the design. Everyone knows going into this game, how it is played, and the nature of their role. The game expects people to be good sports, and to play hard, i.e. do their best. It isn't a failing of the game, that there are people so self-involved that they continue to play a game and ruin it for others on a whim or their mood. All it takes to be a good sport (and I repeat this endlessly) in this game is:
- Don't cheat either with hacks or lag spikes.
- Don't disconnect, if you start a game, FINISH it.
- Be humble in victory and gracious in defeat.
While I admit suicide on the hook meets the MINIMUM requirements listed above, it is still a cowardly, odd way of playing the game. I never understand people who know the rules, know what is expected, and continue to play when they disagree with it. Again, as someone who plays Killer at least half of the time, I could care less when people do this. My sympathies are for the Survivors who stick out the game and play the hard ones. That takes grit. It certainly takes more courage and class than someone who suicides on the Hook just because I yanked them off a Totem in the first 20 seconds of the game and hooked them. I can't begin to describe how bad I felt for that David who literally worked to get to that Jake, and then saw any chance he had of getting out of Gideon go up in smoke.
*And for the record, the other three Survivors did NOT disconnect, nor did they suicide on the hook. That David fought me tooth and nail. If I could name him here I would. So again, we can agree to disagree because the other three had courage, the Jake did not.
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I agree. It also helps if the team sacrifice and switch out the hooked survivor towards the end of the struggling phase w a fresh survivor. This is totally doable as I've done it many times before.
All gens can be finished this way without anyone completely dead.
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BuT If I HaVe No FuN I ShOuLd Be AbLe To QuIt.
YoU CaNt FoRcE Me To PlAy A GaMe I DoNt EnJoY!
(and then complains and feels insulted when people tell them to dont play the game at all then)
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Well, you're right about that the killer wins for selfish behaviour but after all, you as a survivor are alone in the Entity's realm, if the killer has NOED many people decide not to go for the hooked survivor. I am the kind of ultra altruistic survivor and generally I don't see that generosity being paid but that's fine, they decide to play the game in that way and they are in their right to do so.
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Nothing wrong with beiing selfish if you're doing it to win. Like not saving your last slugged teammate when killer is obviously camping his slugged body to lure you out. But if you're selfish in a way, I'm getting camped so I'm not having fun so I hook suicide imagine if all survivors played like that. We basically wouldn't need hooks and all killers would have instant mori the moment you get downed.
It's the same as saying why can't killer AFK whole match if he's not having fun. For example survivors at the start of the match tbagged him and he doesn't like that so he goes afk for the whole game because of that forcing survivors to hold M1 and leave with no interesting gameplay. That's why excessive afking is bannable as is excessive dcing. Hook suiciding is a loophole for dcing, that's why so many consider it problematic and want something to do about it. It's very unhealthy for normal gameplay.
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I always kill myself in the first hook if I see an iri head
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Why? I would think playing those matches out would give you great practice at dodging the hurled hatches. That add-on doesn't guarantee the Huntress victory.
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Well, you're considering this is a game right? If I am playing a table game and I want to leave, I will leave. After all the idea is to enjoy, of course with the time of doing this no one would want to play with me anymore so I get the point but at the same time, this is a game, so instead of doing something to prevent survivors suiciding they need to promote healthier playstyles as you have said "t-bagging a killer", if we talk about unsportmanship, bragging is unsportmanship and clearly unhealthy. If a killer is doing their best but the survivors are an SWF that goes from 2 to follow the killer and 2 doing gens or what happended to a user here, 4 people just trolling the kiler and refusing to do gens because said killer is unexperienced, that's a pretty unhealthy gameplay as well. I for one don't blame the killer if that happens because doing your best is something that shouldn't be laughed at, just because gameplay wise, running tiles is so easy (I went all way to red rank so I know that running tiles it's easy) for survivors doesn't mean they should mock the killer.
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I know I know, I'm just saying that people don't like quitters so that's why they complain about hook suiciders. You can't always enjoy your match for whatever reason but suddently not having fun doesn't mean you should instantly quite. Should I quit via hook suicide insantly each time I face hag and trapper ? I hate facing them, a lot and it's not fun to play vs them for me but I don't quite vs them either.
We all have stuff we hate about DBD but hating something isn't good enough reason to quite. Getting stuck due to bug or having your game held hostage is. That's why hook suicides need more work to be less detrimental to healthy gameplay since they ruin it far more then most other BMs or annoying strategies.
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wondering when these thread start up like they do anything about suicide-on-the-hook I say be happy with dc penalty which I still find pointless.
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I don't know how this can be done when the main objective for the killer is to hook survivors and the survivor must have a chance to get themselves off (yep, that sounds bad lol).
I get what the OP is saying, unfortunately solo survivors don't really care that much because a) they're all strangers to one another so why should they be bothered about hurting the team and b) the chances of playing them again is minimal, unless they're red ranks.
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Meh. When I'm survivor I don't care if someone else suicides - I know I have the Hatch to rely on (which lets be real is a much easier objective than the doors).
When I'm Killer, unless Freddy Nurse or Spirit - it pretty much balances the game to be honest.
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It's just....a....game....
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I kill myself on the hook a fair amount. Usually it's cause of a super sweaty killer running something obnoxious potentially with ebony mori and really, really bad/troll allies. If the match is obviously doomed from the start and I'm going to spend most of the match either hooked, farmed, or being mori'd, I'm not sticking around.
Being camped on a hook by a mori OHKO Huntress while my 3 allies crouch walk in random areas of the map isn't going to be even slightly enjoyable. Especially since I run Kindred as solo player, and they can see she is at me. But no, they are going to all hide instead.
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It is a game that four other people besides yourself signed in to play with the expectation that you would be finishing the match. I'm old and been around the block. I've found there is a direct correlation to how people behave in "games" and how they behave in the real world. If people don't actually want to play the game, they shouldn't sign in in the first place.
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Yeah and a lot of those people will end up leaving me on a hook while they gen rush, I no doubt am older (dunno) but even so I can very much predict how a match is going to be going, from my early start etc, I just move on and with the rift people are more selfish then others and I too, trying to do some missions I wont care I am like toodle oo. But I am honest about such, it is just a game in the end, and uh well I certainly don't do gens and evade Killers in the real world so uhm, not sure where this in game out game assumption comes from :)
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If my team is being stupid I'm out. It's not cowardly. I just am not putting myself through the aggravation.
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The assumption is that if you are a self-centered, inconsiderate, bad sport in the game... that you are probably the same thing in the real world. I'm pretty sure you knew exactly what I meant by that.
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LOL! Okay I literally laughed. No. I am not. Ask peeps I play with, Mushwin in SWF is the one that always goes back for someone in the game, I very mych sacrifice myself a lot in the game for peeps. But omg it's a game so take your assumptions and put them somewhere, you know nothing of me. If I get bad team mates think I am going to aid and help them? no.
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I think you're only looking at one side though. Suiciding on the hook may be selfish, but it's also selfish to expect a player to even want to play if most of their existence in the match is being an item or scenery for the other players. If the Killer is camping and mori'ing off hook, I don't want to feed THEIR selfish entertainment cause they literally give 0 thought into the other's fun if most of my gameplay is waiting to be saved/redowned on the spot to be mori'd.
Likewise if Nea is unhooking in front of the Killer, getting that person farmed by both her and Killer... I'm not sticking around for her selfish reasons.
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smashes a thumbs up
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while i agree with most points, i do hook suicide.
When? When i dont care for my fellow survivors. That usually mean they are no teamplayers. I had games where i found hex perks (or a chest), the other survivor fast vaulted the window to alert the killer, and cleanse the totem/loot the chest while the killer chases me.
I had lots of survivors trying to get rid of the killer by coming to me when i am injured (that made me stop using aftercare, it happend several times), i had survivors not healing me, so the killer would chose me as an easy target if he came by.
I had people bodyblocking me so the killer would hit me, instead of them, in addition to just pointing to my hiding place.
Can you tell me why i should want to play with such teammates?
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Good grief...
Were not being conscripted into infantry for world war three!!!
It’s just a video game!!
If I’ve had a string of rough matches because I’m sick to death of how awful the other survivors are, and something else happens in the current match that pushes my patience over the line, then I’m suiciding on the hook. The other 3 just have to re-evaluate their approach to the match.
I turn on my console and a game for ENTERTAINMENT. I’m not sticking around if it’s miserable match after miserable match.
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But that is exactly why the Solo Que is so horrific right now. The social contract between Survivors is eroding fast. It means, exactly due to this attitude of walking away at any time for any reason that it is hard as heck to get anyone reliable unless you SWF. Saying it is just a game, is not an excuse. Either we show up to play, or we don't. I've already said, suicide on the hook is better than a disconnect and that it meets the minimum requirement. But really, is that all we are shooting for these days, the minimum?
I'm just saying, we reap what we have sown. I think anyone complaining about ANY Killer who walks out of games, is a hypocrite and has no legs to stand on. We don't know if the Killers are too powerful or not, because the games are tilted by people who bail. Of course those games will end up losses. Do you see my point? Pretty much I think anyone who embraces this attitude of, "eh... I'm leaving" has pretty much given up any real right to complain about anything else.
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So, force survivors to disconnect, got it.
Face it, sometimes there are simply games not worth playing. Its not worth wasting 10 minutes on a match you're not gonna enjoy. There is no competitive system at play here. As killer you dont lose a pip even if you lose. As survivor you can lose a pip even if survivors end up winning.
As long as toxic killers get free reign in toxic playstyles, people leaving the game early will happen. I rather have played 6 decent games in 1 hour where I dodged 1 bad game, than to play 5 decent games and 1 game so boring, dull and toxic that it makes me quit playing for the day.
AKA, fix all the bad ######### before you remove suiciding on hook, otherwise people will just keep DC'ing instead.
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"2. if you start a game, finish it" Suiciding on hook is finishing the game. Just as a Mori does, or as tunneling and camping does.
If you know for a fact you're gonna depip anyway because of the way the killer aggro's you specifically, there is not going to be any reason to remain in the game. It's all a waste of time. The end of the game doesnt affect you if you're sacrificed anyway. It doesnt matter. THAT is the problem. Suicide on hook or DC'ing is the solution to a lot of issues that need to be addressed before people stop suiciding or dc'ing.
Dont blame the players who suicide, blame the devs who refuse to address issues that survivors have been shouting out for months, if not years.
As for the things you mention would hurt people:
- no, I know enough about the game to know what survivors can and cannot do. Unless its a new map and a new killer, there is no reason to stay and "learn" things you cant learn in the tutorial level(yes, there is a tutorial level where you could train moonwalking as a survivor)
- If I suicide on hook, there is a danm good reason I did so and other survivors should find out quickly why I suicided in the first place and if they are smart, they would suicide on hook themselves too.
- No, you're really not hurting the community. The killers who gave the reason for a suicide on hook did. I wouldnt suicide on hook if I didnt have to face boosted brown ranks who reached red ranks thanks to undying and ruin. They are extremely boring, the only reason the matches last longer than 5 minutes is because Ruin cant be cleansed untill Undying is cleansed, but since its essentially a 50/50 coinflip from a solo survivor perspective, odds are fairly big that Undying survives the first cleanse, meaning you have to do 1 generator worth of totems just to get rid of Ruin. If I face a PH who can be looped for 1 minute before they can down me and them being able to keep 3+ gens for 3 minutes, im sorry, but I'm out. The killer isnt fun to loop, the game isnt going to be fun because everytime you get close to finishing a generator the killer will come and chase you off while Ruin regresses it quickly, Ruin or Undying ends up spawning on the hardest to find totem and the worst of all is that the killer can spot you doing the totem before you even started working on it, meaning the killer can get you off the totem before you can cleanse it. Those games simply are not worth my time. That killer is obviously overachieving thanks to an essentially broken combination and its simply not entertaining enough to expect me to spend 10+ minutes on such a dull game.
Yes, there are survivors who suicide on hook for other reasons, but that percentage is so tiny that its laughably small. You're here basically telling survivors to endure 10+ extremely boring minutes that are so boring that even paint is more fun to watch dry because suiciding on hook can hurt other players. Well excuse me, the game doesnt have an option to surrender. So suicide it is.
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Well... if it’s any consolation, I’m rarely upset at the killer.
I usually resort to this because of what another survivor did.
- did an unsafe hook rescue on me without BT. If the killer ignores the unhooker and chases me instead, I give up. There’s no point in a chase I’m not going to win, and I’m not going to mash struggle just so this exact same scenario happens again, most likely with the exact same rescuer.
- Survivors keep kiting the killer onto me more than once. ESPECIALLY if I’m in a gen I’ve nearly completed.
- If the killer is camping but nobody is on gens.
- If the killer ISN’T camping (and I’m running Kindred) and yet I STILL go to struggle state. I’m not mashing that button.
- Actually troll behaviour like body blocking teammates in corners and crevices.
I’m just not going to put up with it, and I’m not going to torture myself by staying in games where this occurs. I’m gonna find the killer and suicide on hook.
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And for what it is worth, I understand this view. I've gotten my share of bad apples as fellow Survivors. I've gotten the nimrods that try to work for the Killer, and those that entered the game somehow already in league with the Killer. I've gotten the morons who just crouch around doing nothing. I've been farmed so many times I should be getting subsidies from the Federal Government. I understand your frustration; I really do. I stay, however, and fight for as long as I can because one other Survivor might just deserve a few more minutes to finish a Rift, a Generator, find the Hatch, or something. I fight to the bitter end just because it is my nature.
I just don't want you to think I don't share your contempt for bad Survivors. I do.
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It's a video game.
If they want to kill themselves on the hook, then let them. They aren't "cowards" because they do this either, and you don't need to be "brave" to play this game. This is all so damn dramatic, teammates usually suck anyways, they deserve to lose a teammate.
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