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Why the "looping mindset" that survivor players have is detrimental and is slowly killing this game.
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You cant blame Survivors for learning to loop and mind game better than killers.
There was a time in this game where there was double stack pallets so we didnt need to learn Looping, double stack pallets got nerfed but there was still pallets so we still didnt need to learn looping.
But then the great reduction of pallets happened so survivors actually had to learn looping to stay alive.
Killers only have this to blame for themselves!
BONUS TIME: Killers complained about self-care too so now there is a no heal rush gen meta thanks to the nerf to self-care, even to this day the legit killer mains which they revert it. Even then the damage has been done.
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Do keep in mind that players who are not single didget exist. Your complain wears blinders and assumes every survivor both can and will play 100% optimally. This game has thousands of plays. Among them will be all red, really good teams and among them will be floundering noobs. But even I, a very new killer, have gotten kills against single diget rank survivors with Traper who's concidered a lower tier killer.
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This is the most oblivious troll bait post and I love how everyone seems to be falling for it XD it's hilarious though tbh lmao, the copypasta potential is h u g e
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Rank one huntress main here. I have played against plenty of coordinated immersed swf and plenty of coordinated gen rush swfs and have no problem staying in rank 1. Loops never last long enough to be an issue with mind games and hatchets. If a group outplays me and outloops and jukes my hatchets, I look at it as an opportunity to learn.
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If you can't win at least 50% of the time at red ranks with any killer, you're not playing the tiles correctly. Straight up. There isn't a single pallet in the game that can't be kicked or lead to a hit within 10 seconds. I'm admittedly an outlier, but I run Corrupt as my only slowdown on every killer and survivors haven't completed all the gens in the last 3 days of public lobbies. The only escapes have been hatch escapes. Clown, Legion, Nurse, Spirit, etc. So many killers focus on perks and not the fact that they're running every jungle gym and L/T wall the wrong way.
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This is true, I believe that there is an answer to this, looping areas might need to lessen a bit and stealth should be an improved option.
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And yes it is a core (element) to loop, but it's just that. Stealth is an element as well regardless of any biased viewpoint, we should balance the two not praise one over the other or our biased viewpoints could mutilate this game.
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I mean, that's when you know they're hiding or using something like Spine Chill. If gens aren't moving, you're succeeding at delaying.
In a way, I agree with OP. I like a game with many solutions. The online community for this game has a very narrow definition of what's success as both killer and survivor which I think I disagree greatly with. Then again, I never will not do I care about becoming a rank 1 survivor.
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This game is successful because of the chase interaction. This is a matter of fact. It was meant to be hide'n'seek, but everybody got bored and the devs embraced looping and the game bloomed whereas the competitors who bet on stealth failed.
Stop trying to change it into a game that it is not. Wanna play hide'n'seek? Go play a hide'n'seek game. But DbD is not that.
There's seems to be:
A) a problem of expectations, if you define 'doing well' as double pipping. I don't know where you got that from, even more so considering that the game is constantly being balance around 2k2e, which means double pipping should be rare in the red ranks by design;
and
B) of killer fundamentals if you think looping/chasing consists of running around as a headless chicken by holding W, dropping the pallet, rinse'n'reapeat. There's much more to it, such as route planning, resource management, zoning, path optimization on tiles, mindgaming, decision making, etc.
All my killers are prestige 3 and I played all of them at rank 1 to level them up. Some are weaker, some are stronger, but each and every one is playable and sustainable. I literally never had a trial that lasted 3 minutes over my 1.8k hours devotion 8 and a half. That's the kind of hyperbole that exists on this forum and on reddit, but not in the trials.
Accept that you win some and lose some. That's the nature of gaming.
Saying that the game consists of running in circles without thinking is plain rank 20 talk who goes down in 15 seconds as survivor and gets 5-gen run as killer. There's a lot of thinking that goes on during chases. For these reasons, I also seriously question the authenticity of your claim of 2.8k hours, unless you accrued those by leaving the game idle in the campfire screen. That would do the trick.
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OK hun I respectfully disagree though.
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Deathgarden and Hide or Die would like a word regarding the emphasis of stealth
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Ima Survivor main and I do see alot of times when Im playing Killer (Not being a tryhard) Some survivors use the Console lagg to Exploit certain loops areas and it’s disgusting. I now have a new outlook as to why some Killers Tunnel hard and Camp. Toxic 🤮
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Loops are not a good measure of how much better you are than the killer. There are far too many loops which are big/easy to see over. The killer can do literally nothing except eat the pallet unless you are Nurse and spirit, and possibly a few others. There are more than enough pallets on most maps, which allows you to be safe and spend them early.
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Is pointing out a fallacious assumption in someone's argument bullying now? Maybe instead, you should come up with an actual counter argument? Just because you're offended doesn't mean I'm wrong.
And for the record, you're the one who's telling me to leave and play another game. Based on your logic, you would be the unhelpful bully.
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This. So much of this. If they do this theyll kill the game. Ive never heard or seen so many noobs in one thread " lEtS hAvE eVeN mOre PeOplE uRbaN EvaDiNg " literally the only survivors who run urban evasion , are the ones that hold crouch button the whole game and just urban evade around the map the whole time. No thanks, we dont want to be forced to play like brain dead survivors.
Also, the loop problem sounds like youre just trash in chase. Literally git gud and ######### off man.
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I'm a meghead which means I'm a bit of a dummy, so I never got the hang of looping. If I get in a chase, I prefer window vaults and throwing those sweet hunks of wood down to close the distance at least!!
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Just an observation: it's always the people that refer to the killers with their first name who think stealth is more fun than chases.
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Wish there was a way to fight back ? Escaping and running is getting boring as a survivor
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Good red rank survivors use the best strategy to win vs the killer they are facing. Sometimes that means looping, and sometimes it means stealth and evasion. It's all part of the game and what adds up to a complete gaming experience. Limiting options should be the last thing anyone want as a player. Killer or survivor.
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It's hard because the looping aspect for survivors is the main pleasure for the role, whereas too much looping for the killer makes it incredibly frustrating.
I honestly think the problem is the map design and how there are far too many safe loops and pallets in the game. Some maps have up to ten safe loops and pallets back to back. The time it takes to chase a survivor in these loops makes all of the generators go by too quickly.
I mean some maps are SO big killers without a mobility tool take a legit half a generator to just walk from one end to the map, to the other.
It's difficult to apply pressure as Killer sometimes, no idea why you have to camp, tunnel or slug sometimes.
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I think focusing primarily on stealth will kill the game more. Killers aren't trying to play hide and seek while also on a stress inducingly short time limit. I love stealth, but it should be an option, not the focus.
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I'm going to say this i completely disagree with this idea of a game that your talking about because its not Dead by daylight.
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If your chasing after 1 person for 3 minutes, your problem isnt that that person is unfairly too good but that you allowed yourself to get tunnel vision and ignore the other 3 survivors. The fact that you have 2.8k hours in the game only shows that your bad habit had REALLY set in. Dont let 1 person make use of the entire map's resources while you ignore the other 3.
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I mean...no shame...but your argument is shaky at best.
I love hiding. It's the ultimate "I outwitted you, nyah nyah"...
But you want to take away the part of the game where you....run away from the giant murder monster. In favor of a game where survivors sit in one spot so you can get cool slow kills?
Disregarding that a good chase is the most exciting thing ever, lol, this sounds less like a thoughtful examination of the state of the game and more like proposing an idea that you hope someone repeats back, so it feels validating.
Either troll...or, maybe not as ahead of the curve as you think.
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It's silly, but I really do love (and try to reinforce) the idea that we all just really want to play together.
Were humans and we never outgrow that, we just get cooler toys.
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I think I failed to be clearer with my point which a lot of people have pointed out. :(
What I mean is reduce the pallets to only a few and maybe make them slightly weaker, and then promote stealth gameplay by updating the maps to be less flat and empty, allowing for more diverse play. A good survivor doesn't need many pallets anyways!
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Hiding was fun in 2016. If you play the game to just hide and hold m1, you're missing out on the most fun aspect of DBD and that's the chase. The chase is where both sides can actually outplay each other.
A killer isn't good because they have eyes and ears and are able to spot people in every dark corner of each map. They're good because they know how to manage time, pressure gens/multiple survivors, and can typically end chases relatively quick because they can either run tiles more efficiently than the survivor and/or through some form of mindgame.
On the other hand, a survivor isn't good because they hide all game and hold m1. That's so freakin' easy. They're good because they know how to run tiles correctly. They fake vaults or get greedy with pallets because they expect the killer to respect. They use los blockers to lose the killer midchase. They know how to split up on gens and when it's the best time to actually save/heal.
There are times where you do tactically hide when a killer comes by and you walk around an los blocker to prevent them from finding you (which is the correct play). However, for the most part, a good killer will eventually find the survivor and this is when the actual skill from both sides shine through.
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Now imagine this all without BL. That's a possibility soon, its being talked about from what I understand.
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you really cant, in most loops survivor can still see the killer or the red glow
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That might SOUND like fun on paper, but in practice... The games as killer where the entire team of survivors is just stealthing around so all you can do is keep patrolling the gens as you keep seeing them have more and more progress while being unable to find anyone is the worst. This is the reason things like the corn on farm maps, the bushes on dead dog salon and other aspects that make crouching blendettes disappear has so much hate. It also just makes it more likely camping will rise since killers would have a hard time finding more chases to get in to begin with. They wont wanna let go of the few survivors they DO find.
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Unless the survivor is using stretch res, you can use the redglow to your advantage and moonwalk into the survivor. You can also hide your red glow by facing away from a tile and walking sideways. Hell you can also fake a moonwalk in plain view which causes a survivor to hesitate. This will either result in a hit or having them drop a pallet early.
So often, killers would just brute force a tile/loop and it becomes rather predictable for the survivor to read. These are more advanced techniques but if you use them properly, they can result in easier hits/downs.
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Any argument you may have had is buried under your cringy use of killers first names
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But to hone your reaction time and to learn how to run requires skill. Screw those short ass farm loops. Those don't take much skill im talking about using loops efficiently and chaining them. THAT takes skill. Wasting pallets and using cheap annoying filler pallets aren't that much skill unless you have good baits and reads on the killer. You get a whole team who barely ever drops ONE pallet and unless you are nurse you'd lose. To think that its easy is so wrong
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This is the mindset people have that grinds my gears, especially when it comes to perks like DS. I personally love to mix it up and get niche perks to work, but it's hard when every killer always runs the meta because they're preparing for the worst every game.
But I hate the rare occasions I DO use DS when an overwhelming majority of my games are being spent getting tunneled out of games as fast as possible and then I get killers messaging me after a game is over, even if I died, to talk ######### about the fact that I even brought DS or God forbid I use it and manage to survive, they have a hissy fit saying I rely on crutch perks when I'm running something like DS, Any Means Necessary, fixated and deja vu (to prevent 3 gens in solo que) and they're running ######### like ruin, undying, noed and blood warden on a Ghostface.
Then you get the games where they brag about hard tunneling you to death because you looped them a little longer than they liked and you're like 'I mean what else was I supposed to do at that point' and they're like 'run DS'. You can't win, lol.
Killers typically get especially angry if you extend chases, like buddy you should've quit chasing me a long time ago. It's amazing how often killers don't know when to quit, then they turn your ability to loop and make them look stupid for not leaving you as a personal attack and it goes from trying to catch you to trying ONLY to catch you, ignoring everyone else despite them throwing themselves at them. If you can't catch someone either try to path unpredictably or cut the chase and go after a weaker link. Honestly it's always the killers that actually have no idea what they're doing and path retardedly that always end up getting me, but it's almost always funny cause I'm like WHAT WAS HE DOING??
Also if he were a formidable opponent he would see more stealth. When a good survivor is scared of a good killer, they will avoid chases for as long as possible.
(Ps4) I rarely see nurse and spirit, nowadays I even see more nurse than spirit and that says something. I mainly see Freddy, Deathslinger, Pig and Bubba. I like to see huntress, Oni and Blight currently. Billy's chase music terrifies me but his scream makes me laugh.
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How dare survivors ruin a killer's time by not standing still for free kills. The audacity of some people.
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you can”t play stealth because a)the killer has dozens of perks to find survivors, and also crows, sounds, marks and you can find survs if they don”t move at all, and b) because 4 stealth survs can”t finish 5 gens
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Um, not to be mean, but I think that might be what the OP is complaining about... Which is totally fine, playing safe is very strong for good reason.
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Looping is fun sometimes, they really need to shorten loops and spread tiles apart to make it fairer for a killer. Also survivors don't need to mindgame, only killers. Survivors can waste enough time if they loop without mindgames, while killers will lose if they don't.
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basic tricks, experienced survivors don't care, in most loops you can just see the killer, and then you have coldwind farm where u see the killer even through walls
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My point still stands, I am a complete idiot lmao
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Only someone who basically never plays (solo) survivor, which must be an actual killer main then, thinks that looping is boring or bad design lmao. There are a lot of sweaty 4K entitled killers out there, if you don't loop you pretty much lost the match. Most killer players still get carried by bad servers anyway no matter how much you loop because they get hits that shouldn't never connect in any possible universe.
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"hey! you shouldn't play the way you think it's fun because i don't think playing this way is fun!"
prepare not to have a great life, fella
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In order to achieve what you ask, devs should make almost a complete rework of the game. Some killers even push you to play on killer's sight like Doctor or Legion with their abilities. You were supposed to hide and do you objectives concealed, but today many perks give killer information on your position, so it's not viable to play stealthy too much. Hell, many survivors would tell you they hate sneaking and would rather engage killer, forcing him to chase them. So unless devs have a way to change people's mindset and overall gameplay, immersion will greatly decrease your progress during a trial.
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So what else are they suppose to do? Die? If you have 2k+ hours you should know now that you probably shouldn't chase the guy who's looping you all game. Plenty of killers are viable in red ranks, it's just all on how you play them. I've wiped an entire team of sweats with Demo and Zanshin tactics ONLY before, but does that make Demo S++? Hell no. You have to learn how to capitalize on survivor mistakes as killer and punish the WHOLE TEAM, not just one survivor. The reason people play Spirit and Nurse is because they're the best killers. In every game there's a meta and acting like DBD is an exception due to bad balance is just dumb. Some people want to use the best ######### they have simply because they want to win. There's nothing wrong with it and if killer is too challenging for you, then maybe it's not the role you should play? I like killer gameplay because it's harder and more complex than survivor so winning is more rewarding. If killer were just the default "smack survivor, walk around loop and win" then it'd kill a lot of the fun.
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Are you an idiot if it keeps you alive?
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That's your opinion personally I think looping has gotten stale and I think it's fun to be stealthy. The moment you dupe a killer completely is so satisfying.
As a killer even If i do mindgame its repetitive. The same thing at every loop. Once you've got it down That's kinda it. If the survivor makes no makes there's little I can do.
I agree that the current way stealth is promoted is a little boring for killers as a killer myself I feel the same. But if they where to put effort into making it more of an intriguing playsyle for both sides I think it could be cool.
Sorry but I and loads of other people are getting a little bored playing one game mode. Running the same loops, the same mind games with the sane meta.
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Good to see this community hasn't lost its toxicity.
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If you don't want to chase them there needs to be a mechanism put in place to counter attacks from the killer. Otherwise all in hearing is "I can't win and that's not fair". I'm not red ranks, but I get caught in chase loops often. The fact that the killer moves faster than the survivor is more than enough.
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... Killer has never been easier than it is today. No, looping isn’t slowly killing anything and anybody who has been playing this game from release knows looping is at its weakest today compared to how it ever was before.
Spirit isn’t an example of a well designed killer. It’s a “get everything for nothing” killer just like Freddy. You don’t need to be good at anything, and get every reward out of it. I’m killing everybody in red ranks before they can repair more than one or two generators. I only struggle a bit more if I unequip Ruin + use a weak killer.
Being a killer is the most boring and easiest it’s ever been before
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