Someone Necroed this by accident because first post weirdness plz ignore
So in the 1v4 asymmetrical game not only does the 1s special offering that is only found every now and then in late game bloodwebs and not at all ingame through chests and luck, but also it is effectively somewhere between useless to a waste of time, With keys on the other hand even if they are nerfed to close the hatch behind the one person escaping, they are still
An early escape
A free 2 man escape at 3 gens done because the hatch opens for the last survivor
Able to be found in chests and have perks that increase the likely hood of finding them in chests
Able to have a team of 4 bring them in with no actual way to challenge them now other than throw your build into the trash for franklins and hope one or more isn't immersed the entire game, and if 3 or more gens get done by 4 people (childsplay) late game is just going to become a bunch of immersed survivors looking for their easy escape
Literally the only nerf you could do with keys that could be on par with moris would be this
Keys now only open the hatch if you are the last survivor
But knowing the devs this is highly unlikely so for a while we get to deal with keys running rampant, which is why the community was asking for both at the same time not one or the other
Comments
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Just because Keys are too strong doesn't mean Moris didn't need a nerf lol. They were both stupid
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yea but to nerf them into the ground like this while letting keys run rampant and nerf them beyond what keys will be nerfed to in a 1 v 4 game with 1 mori and 4 keys you gotta ask yourself if it was a good change, my answer is no
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Every pink addon on the survivors side they've touched in the past two years has been "nerfed into the ground", no one runs odd bulb, no one runs BNPs, no one really uses needles, they're all pretty irrelevant compared to their first iterations.
I feel very confident that the keys will get nerfed into the ground as well.
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My answer is yes. Moris being changed should not be dependent on keys being changed and vice versa.
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true that its likely but still doesn't make me happy they decided to do one before the other and announced the other now that the keys main counter measure is gone
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As a mod said, the key rework is probably a rework of the mechanic as a whole. Both are problematic and needed to be addressed ASAP imo. Just going to have to wait on keys.
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People run BNPs a lot more since the toolbox nerf.
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Then why change mori's now instead of waiting till keys were ready as both are issues for the respective sides as both cuts games short and not fun for either sides to deal with.
Also it would of saved you the hassle of all the posts saying devs are survivor sided if both were changed at the same time.
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look at it this way, you are dueling an opponent on the regular and have the same weapon, but due to a "bug fix" you bullets have become blanks while youre opponent still has real bullets but they attached a promise in a while they will be given blanks as well, do you think your opponent will take advantage of this situation and milk it for all its worth or just cancel for a few weeks until its all sorted
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I know they said it I just hope they would have waited to do both not do one and annonce the other because it leads to the situation where we are currently entering where one side still has their easily abusable item available while the otherside has had theirs taken away
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But there's a drastic power difference between these 2 items now. It's nigh useless for killers but keys can still be 4-man escapes for survivors with minimal effort. I'm not saying they're equivalent but not touching keys at the same time is a very bad idea and extremely unhealthy for the game even for perceived reasons. Now everyone is going to be using their keys as much as possible so they don't lose out like killers did with Moris, and now killers have even less response to it.
Great change.
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you dont use moris to counter keys, stop using this argument. Moris are a stupid mechanic and so are keys, both need to be changed. yes it was a good change, getting hooked once and dying because you got tunneled 2 minutes into the game without even being able to use DS/flashlight or pallet save is stupid and broken. So what if they are useless now (which they are not)?? it's a stupid offering that brought nothing good to the game
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one kick of pop counters an entire bnp, and we all know how popular PGTW is, it's almost useless to even use BNPs.
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ditto I have seen and had games with 2+ bnps a decent amount of times even though they aren't instantly complete a gen or complete a gen in 20 seconds 5 seconds for 20 seconds of gen progress still isn't bad
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Survivors can only get 4 man escapes with a key if they finish all the generators. In which case the killer already failed to pressure the survivors and prevent them from completing their objective.
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Keys have a lot more interaction in game I feel though, like mori is one hook and you can kill. (or was)
Keys can't be used straight away, they can be dropped, the survivor with key can be killed (and if they have an addon, taken with them), It's harder to balance something that has more counters than the mori in a similar fashion, if that wording makes any sense.
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Keys have never been better than ebony moris.
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yes you do, if you have every seen 2+ keys in a lobby there is a 99% chance that there is a mori on the other side, also just because a save can happen doesn't mean the offering is suddenly better, because those don't happen 95% of the time anyway even if you aren't paying attension and if you are that jumps up to 100% not happening, yes they were both stupid but at least they kept each other in check to some extent
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How about you remove them from the chest spawn rates for a start? It wouldn't take more than an hour to adjust the code for this.
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animations are going to be needed huh, interesting :)
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I'll just kill them with a different weapon. Ez
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still better than moris in its current form and so what that they might not get a 4 man escape a 3-2 man escape is pretty strong for 1 item that can be FOUND IN CHESTS IN GAME WITH LUCK
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It's not the first time the devs have ruined something before adjusting it's counter part. Remember when they reworked ruin they didn't touch tool boxes until a month later?
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I don't know the devs priorities, so I cannot tell you why one has been addressed now instead of releasing the changes together, I'm sorry.
The scenario you are showing is something that happens really rarely, and even if I agree both moris and keys are unfun and unhealthy for the gameplay, I don't think one thing is strictly linked to the other and I don't think people will use keys more just because moris got nerfed.
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It's literally not though. Even if they kick it you're still better off than before if it even has 1% progress left.
Yes this is true, but it can still happen and they still completely avoid a part of the game (gates) like killers did by tunneling off of 1st hook.
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the item doesn't take the keys with them the keys stay in the game for other survivors to use the addon just gets used up, id rather keys be for aura reading than early escapes by letting keys only open hatch if they are the last survivor
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thats a lot more effort to get that one kick of pop then right click a gen for 5 seconds
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The devs could have waited. It was an easy wait. I've been told...we as a community have been told to be patient with things like this. When one side gets nerfed and the corresponding side does not (in my experince usual killers getting nerfed and survivors either getting buffed or not nerfed at all), its frustrating, and shows the devs don't have patience to wait for both. So I am done being patient. I want a corresponding key change, or I want this nerf reverted until both are ready.
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I don't understand the relevance?
Keys are not a mories counterpart, and mories aren't a keys counterpart, in any way shape or form.
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Yea addons not items and they are tampering with the flash lights not nerfing them before you try that on me
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its alright I forgive you, I know you aren't responsible so I shouldn't be mad at you
but to be fair I am going to start a key tally and see if they are more likely then they once were because I feel the power balance has shifted to more keys
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PGTW - 25%
BNP - 25%
PGTW can be used on multiple gens, I don't understand how PGTW doesn't directly defeat the effect of a BNP.
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I think there will probably be an unlocking animation with the hatch that can be interrupted.
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2-3 man escapes still requires the survivors to get gens done. Key nerfs are going to come, but they aren't nearly as game changing as moris and it's fine that moris got hit before keys.
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True, making toolboxes have so few charges made BNP's viable, which imo is a very healthy way of making once broken add-ons viable.
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In a way they are. Both speed up the objective for whichever side uses them. Moris help the killer get rid of the survivors faster. Keys help the survivors escape quicker.
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keys are not a counterpart to moris but moris are a counterpart to keys, the reason you don't see keys 24/7 in lobbies is for a few reasons
- players are stockpiling
- players are scared there is going to be a mori for bringing a key
- people see someone else with a key and don't want to bring another to basically guarantee a mori
and now that 2 and 3 are compromised you bet your sweet bippy that keys are going to be more prevalent
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Because the survivors don't have anything pink besides keys & maps lol.
and they have to use an item to use an addon.
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ah yes the good old franklins water gun
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It requires you to chase someone, down them, hook them, and come over to a non-regressing generator.
BNP can be used whenever you want and all at the same time potentially.
But what I'm really trying to get at here is unless a gen is under 25% progress by a kick you have gained value out of it even with a PGTW kick. Even if the gen has 1% left after that kick, that's 1% more than it would have had if you weren't using the BNP.
Of course that's all barring you used BNP entirely plus a few seconds+ before the PGTW kick.
EDIT: They're not massive value like they were before but before they literally broke the game beyond balance. Now they're just strong boosts which is way healthier than a decisive gen finisher.
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Nope, I'll just kill them with a Reverse Bear Trap like I always do.
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they should be as game changing as moris because right now the only form of balance I can see is if keys can open the hatch for the last survivor, thats the only way to get a item to be on the same 1v1 power level for a team that can bring 4 of them
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reverse bear traps suddenly prevent survivors from hatch escapes, never knew that one
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"It requires you to chase someone, down them, hook them, and come over to a non-regressing generator."
Oh, it requires you to play the game normally as if you weren't even running the perk? Darn, takes so much effort to use PGTW.
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Its a much needed and welcome change. I'm not saying that with any bias because I will be popping champagne bottles when they nerf keys into the ground, too.
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Easier doesn't mean better. In fact, since you said this, means you just revealed and proved the balance team is super lazy. Oof
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It is very rare in my matches that I see Key + Mori being played, the difference is killers can back out of a lobby if they see a key, survivors who bring nothing in have nothing to do against a mori besides "don't get hit" .
and when I do see Key + Mori, the killer doesn't care who has it, they'll mori everyone.
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oh and what do you need for bnp again, playing the game normally as if you weren't even running the addon, touch a gen and hit skillchecks
as if that suddenly balances when they can get them throughout the game and killer suddenly has a pop at the start too counter your free progress you got while they had to cross the map
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That's not the point, that's part of what makes it a healthy perk actually.
What I meant by that is it takes time and multiple actions before you can actually use it. BNP require you only have it equipped and are at a generator, and can last forever until used.
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