This entire update was bad for killer
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Why did you revert the flashlight accuracy change? With lower base accuracy, it gave the grips an actual purpose. With it reverted, now again the only useful addons for flashlights are batteries. Why even have any other addons in the game when only batteries actually do anything for the flashlight?
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Again you missed my point. I wasn't requesting a buff to ruin undying.
I was stating that you complained about oppression THEN complained about ruin /undying. I was stating that oppression won't even get used because it's the worse option for killers.
And yes I can do fine as survivor on ormond now. But I know killer is meant to be 1v4 so I never count on a loop to last half a match....
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If you think Ormond is fine then try lasting more than 30 seconds against a decent killer without throwing everypallet instantly
I never complained about opression, i'm just saying it's a good perk and showing that they give good stuff to killers.
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Ormond is no worse than Backwater or old Autohaven. It's just not instant win for swf anymore.... You still have Haddonfield for that though😉.
Oppression is decent. It's also the only killer perk that's not an absolute joke from this killer. Hell, hoarder may as well be on Elodie.
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so you're saying coup de grace is bad? Is that because it's not an insane gen slowdown perk which you wished for?
Look i agree haddonfield and old ormond are busted and i was more than happy for them to get the desperate changes they needed, but now the maps are flipping power roles and i don't see how that's anybetter than what we had.
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Coupe de Grace is not good at all... It shows you don't play killer. You only get 5 tokens max and those are used on the next lunge regardless of whether you wanted it or not. It auto activates, so trying to get value from it will cause you to miss a lot of quick attacks because you are trying to save lunges. 99% of attacks are lunge unless you're attempting to grab or hit somebody trying to 360 you.
I want map balance as well. To me, right now ormond feels fair. I'm not 4k'ing easily but I'm not running the entire match trying to get my 3rd hook when my 5th gen pops.
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No i'm sayign that so many ppl these days aren't happy unless they get some undying level gen slowdown perk because they rely hard on gen slowdowns.
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So I apparently don't play killer because I think a perk is decent that you think isn't good?
If you use ur lunges correctly, those 5 tokens can be almost 5 downs you otherwise woudln't have gotten, and it can make for some sick plays.
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You know what i mean stop twisting my words
And yes i play killer and i refuse to use ruin undying because running that build literally makes me loose brain cells not needing to think or be held accountable for my plays.
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Possibly in a meme build. If you get coupe de grace value than you have the most amazing timing and map awareness in the community. Because I'm wasting 2 tokens on average and every streamer I've watched is as well.
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Just because a perk isn't pop or bbq doesn't mean it's bad, like i keep saying people like you need to stop assuming every perk is bad because it's not a huge gamechanger for them.
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Undying when combined with ruin counts as a slowdown perk. Same with tinkerer. You dont need somethign actively slowing gen speeds for it to be a slowdown perk.
Hex perks have counterplay until you throw undying into the equation, which prevents you from being able to pop the totem unless you find and pop all 5, which by then you woulda already lost the game.
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Would gen speeds having gone much faster without tinkerer or undying combo'd with ruin? Yes. Then it's a gen slowdown perk in that instance.
There is no counterplay to ruin undying other than praying you get the totems in the right order AND hoping you can find the totems before you've lost the game or without throwing the game.
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Did you not see what old coup did with things like demo's and spirit's lunge? There was a good reason why it was nerfed.
And like you see value in iron maiden, i see value in coup.
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But there's perks to counter totems. Small game and detectives hunch. You don't even need to bring a perk. If you bring a map then you're good. Saying there's no counter play is just false. It gives the survivors a second objective which is good. Theres 4 survivors. You just need 1 to look for totems or be a good looper. Also coup de grace is a bad perk imo. You only get 5 tokens. As a killer you need as much help as you can get in a match. Yes it could help you make some ok plays but all a survivor needs to do is drop the pallet and you lose a token. There's way more better perks out there to be replaced by coup de grace. Perks need to be a game changer bro.
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So you think perks need to be game changers and you want to be carried by them? Why are people complaining about ds, unbreakable etc if that's the logic that's being applied? It couldn't possibly be one standard for killer another standard for survivor right?
Detectives hunch requires gens to be popped first and even the limited info it gives you is just somehow goign to magicaly wish ruin undying away?
Small game is actually garbage in terms of totem hunting.
Do you know how maps work? You actually have to find and be within range of the totem for it to show up, so you wan't to run around the whole map at the start and then go and pop the totems?
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Oh no a gen's popped time to facecamp and force death and run 4 gen slowdown perks - that's what im gathering from those last two sentences. Not everyone plays like this and doesn't get value from coup.
Coup still works on spirit and nurse.
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The way you said you don't want mediocre wins makes you sound exactly like someone who won't accept a loss.
And what who said you were winning and who said this argument is about winning? Why is everything about winning?
You know what this discussion is getting nowhere so I'm done.
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So tinkerer too. I'm starting to think you're trolling 🧐.
Hex's can be broken. Bones are a secondary objective. Gens are too fast if the team ignores bones. So undying literally balances the game into the state it's supposed to be.
But it IS PAINFULLY OBVIOUS you're not a killer player. Because you've basically written "I'm an impatient, entitled survivor" in 🖍️ for us all in your last 10 statements.
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They're saying coupe de grace can "make amazing plays" then saying "small game is trash for totem hunting". 😆😂
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Ace_Ventura
you're winning.
Withered8
Agreed. You've failed to make us see your completely flawed logic. I'd be embarrassed enough to concede by now too. But in the same style as all of your arguments. By trying to act confused, changing subjects and Just ignoring that you're wrong. Bubye
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Stg yous all make out like its op with undying, undying doesnt make it a better perk it just makes it stay up longer sometimes
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Survivors use game changing perks all the time bro. Why do you think they use DH, adrenaline, ds, UB, bt? They're all second chance perks. Detectives rewards you for completing a gen. Small game is ok to learn totem spots you just don't wanna replace your meta perks as survivor right? Rainbow maps show you totems within 8 meters. With detectives and a green map you actually have it easier but of course you wont replace a meta perk. Its not the killers fault that their applying pressure with undying and ruin if you're not gonna bother finding totems.
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Bones have NEVER been intended as a secondary objective because it's not mandatory. I'm all for secondary objectives but bones is NOT the way to do it, and is NOT intended as a secondary objective.
Does undying balance the game for everyone or balance it in the way that YOU want it so you can win more easily.
I hate when people throw this "Your obviously not a killer player ur an entitled survivor" argument out because it's pathetic. I could show you that I'm literally in the top 200 for perfect killer games worldwide but you wouldn't believe me so I'm not going to bother.
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Undying means that you can have ruin up for the whole game majority of games, is that not making it a better perk and cancelling out the risk reward situation which base ruin offers to give it counteplay?
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So why complain about survivor meta perks when you literally stated before that you think perks should be game changers?
Perks should never be game changers, you should have to win off ur own skill not abusing ds unbreakable or chucking on ruin undying.
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Bones ARE a required objective if the killer makes them one ie. Ruin/Undying And even NOED is the way it is to be a reminder to survivors that ignoring totems can bite you. The devs have stated that survivors should strive to do all bones or risk losing. This was intentional as hex totems are meant to be strong. Plus you have a fifty fifty shot at getting Undying first. So wahhhh gotta do 2 or 3 instead of gen rushing.
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Gen slowdown is NECESSARY. Here's basic math so it might sink in:
4 survivors need to complete 5 gens.
1 killer needs to kill 4 survivors.
1 kill takes 3 hooks (don't even argue this, because if the killer is camping, his ruin/Undying is doing exactly NOTHING thus nullifying your complaint... So YES 3 hooks!)
4 kills is 12 hooks.
So yeah 4 people doing 5 combined objectives is too fast compared to 1 killer doing 4 objectives requiring ending 12 chases.
K your turn to sound more entitled and literally add nothing to the argument.
And your "I'm a top 200 killer" is more straight BS. you're not even good at the side you're defending 😂
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When you describe taking out 2 or 3 totems as an easy thing to do you fail to take in ANY considerations or factors as to how games are played. Gens need to be done, people need to be rescued of hooks, people need to heal and there's a killer running around pressuring you and potentially applying their own secondary objectives/passive slowdown. Taking out totems like you've mentioned would work if first chases lasted for 2 minutes or so, but how often does that actually happen in a game these days, especially with half a roster full of antiloopers and far more weaker and 50/50 map and tile designs.
There's a HUGE difference between the way noed works however as opposed to ruin undying. Noed does punish survivors for not doing totems but you are given the opportunity to do it throughout most of early and midgame as survivor. You do not have the luxury against ruin undying to space out when you take out totems because the longer it's in the game, the more it hurts you. It basically makes totems something which needs to be done ONTOP of applying insane pressure.
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There is 1 killer. The killer can't force everyone off gens while chasing, downing and hooking. So in early game R U should only effect 1 gen maximum. By the time 1 person is down and hooked 2 gens should be nearly done. If they're nearly done let the hooked cook for 20 seconds to finish the gen. If every single survivor doesn't let go of gens to unhook immediately then outplaying R U is not too difficult until 2 survivors are dead. By then gens should be done.
You're doing something wrong if you're not actively doing totems and still losing massive gen progress. Either hunt totems or stick to gens and only allow 1 to go for unhooks. If he's camping stick on gens and R U does nothing at all.
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Once again your failing to take in ANY factors as to how a real game plays out, so i'll put this to you. What if I told you that almost EVERY killer has some form of passive slowdown, ofcourse you wouldn't believe me. But when you've got a stealth killer, ur far more inclined to waste time healing, jump of gens early or you risk going down insanely fast. You've got oni who makes people want to heal or they are vunerable to his ability, you've got legion and doc who make people do stationary actions, you've got pig (self explanitory), you've got plague who makes people go to fountains and cleanse, you've got freddy who is a slowdown machine himself, you've got trapper hag and demo who make surviors waste time in order to find, disarm and caution around traps and portals, you've got all antiloop killers who end chases far faster, you've got high mobility killers who are able to get across the map in very short amounts of time. This is killer power slowdowns themselves btw. Then you've got hook slowdowns, heal slowdowns, threat of an incoming killer slowdowns etc etc.
You havn't provided any mathemtics in your described situation just briefly scimmed over some basic concepts of the game. You don't "need" gen regression, you wan't it to have easier wins because the minute you loose one match out of say 50 the game is immediately broken and survivor sided. I play almost half of the killers on the roster without any gen slowdown perks, a couple with bbq only.
And yes you can camp and get value from ruin undying, either by hooking in a three gen or playing any trap based, map pressure or decent mobility killer.
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My whole previous post was literally a simple MATH BREAKDOWN.
I wish I could draw in crayon for you but it's not possible.
Enjoy hearing only what YOU say. I've seen myself and at least 1 other totally invalidate every claim you make. Yet you refuse to concede. Take the pride hit. Because every word makes you look worse.
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yes because you can automatically tell when someone is going in for the save in solo q...
The killer cannot force everyone at gens that's right but they can force enough people off of gens and create enough pressure that they are not able to be compelted at a fast rate. If two people or more are on a gen and the killer goes there, they've immediately pressured those survivors into doing nothing, they go and chase one, potentially hit and injure both and now ones on the floor in 60 seconds. You've already got very good pressure right off the back. Lets even go the extreme and say all 4 survivors get on 4 individual gens at the start, the killer goes and finds one and downs them, now they are on hook and the killer goes to one of the other three survivors. Two gens are popping at most. Now someone else is in chase, another has to go in for the save and the last will pressumably be looking for a gen, and it goes on from there. This isn't taking into account a mobility or extremely fast downing killer, a killer who's playing hit an run or any perks such as ruin undying, corrupt, pop etc etc.
Can you not see how throwing in an ability for all gens to regress at an insane rate whilst not being worked on until most totems are taken out compeltely skews logic of the game? If people commit to finding all the totems at the start like you said, by the time that happens, someone would probably be hooked with more pressure on it's way and not a single ounce of pressure on the killer in the form of a gen popping or being worked on.
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Camping 3 gen is rare (grasping at straws) and shouldn't have 3 gen'd yourself. High mobility killers aren't camping🤪... "Hillbilly camped me while chasing someone across the map".
Gen slowdown is necessary and you cry because it denies you easy, fast escapes. (See what I did... I used your arguments about wanting easy games against you because it's redundant AF.
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No I don't want easy and fast escapes, i want games where the outcome is not predetermined by perk combos or before a match has even begun, with very little possiblity of changing the fate.
Camping a 3gen is rare, so what do you think happens in tournament levels of gameplay?
Tell me how you escape a three gen on say coal tower or thomspons house or with a killer who knows how to play to a three gen?
Any killer with mobility can go right back to the hook as soon as they see someone cutting in the for the save and go get a free down, it's not hard. It's also not uncommon for proxying to occur and forcing death on people.
You claimed that i was loosing this so called win/loss debate yet ur only argumetns seem to be either comical or mimicing my points.
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If this combo based on RNG is predetermining your match knowing that 80% of survivors know most totem spawn locations.
So the only possibility left is you are horrible at survivor. So I'll end our session with an old adage that I truly despise but oddly enough fits your situation like a glove...git gud😃.
Edit: also an argument is a "win lose" debate. And @Ace_Ventura bested your claims long before this.
Oh looks like he's banned. You really can't handle being wrong huh.
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Can we make a mode where killers can't touch gens... Or survivors? So certain players can just live their fantasy of just dominating all matches and stop bothering the community? Just curious.
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So your counterargument to all of that is just "haha u noob i'm good"? What is this kindy?
How is me providing arguments and rebuttals to someone's point of view me not handling being wrong? Are you saying that I shouldn't be allowed to voice my opinion because it doesn't fall inline with your's? If anything you're the one refusing to be wrong becaues you won't give me a single reason as to why those points I listed are wrong.
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If survivors are good theyll do bones
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The typical "just do bones argument", it's just not practical and I can't be bothered to explain.
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If you guys felt 10 seconds was good for now, then I'm assuming the theory on you're not supposed to go far from Charlotte to be most effective is true?
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It is practical, if you cant split up from your team and ruin is a huge problem equip a map, small game or dectectives hunch
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Yes because equipping a map, small game or detectives hunch is just going to magically wish away ruin undying and all your problems...
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Tells you and witht he map addon, the rest of your team where totems are, go break them and go do something instead of gens all game
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I gave you options for counterplay with or without doing bones. You just say gen slowdown is only used to give killers easy games.
I'm saying you're not very good at survivor bc most I use RU my undying falls within 2 mins of match start.
If you can't play around it and 8 out of 10 others can, I'd say those 8 are better than you. So learn where your deficiency is and get better.
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Of course because your "explanation" relies on an omnipotent killer argument that's been shown to be illogical.
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Your opinion is fine. Not ONCE have you presented anything as your opinion. You blatantly claim it's "the reality of actual matches", that's not an opinionated claim, it's a false statement.
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Is the proposed counter to what you consider a necessity for killers one specific item, addon, or perk to deal with the RNG of bones?
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I havn't said it gives killers easy games and sometimes i do think it's rightfully helpful, however sometimes it can also be way over the top and carry killers without them learning ways to improve their game and skillset.
Yes because ruin undying falls within 2 minutes majority of games, i bet stats would differ if they ever were to be released.
Beating a bad killer who is running it or throwing the whole game to do totems is not "playing around it".
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No i said that the reality of actual matches is that there are many other things survivors need to do and are pressured by, so using base gen speed stats proves nothing but how fast gens can go against an afk killer, I never said the reality of matches is that ruin undying breaks the game, I just gave evidence and poitnts as to why I believe ruin undying is busted.
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