Mori should be artistic only, and keys should be chests only, remove hatch
Mori should be an offering you can bring that makes the final hook play the mori cutscene (does not slow killer down or effect gameplay).
Keys should be changed to open chests faster or instantly.
Hatch should be removed as it is a mechanic that is no longer necessary and only detracts from the game.
Change my mind.
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There are a lot of achievements and previous tome challenges which require hatch. So there's no way they will delete it.
Just make it so that opening a hatch with a key takes 10-15 seconds, and the purple key only lets 1 survivor escape. Moris are still a very powerful offering.
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Hatch is fine and actually a really good mechanic to ensure the game remains playable for solos.
The emblem system DEFINITELY should be changed so the killer cares way less about the last hatch kill, which in tight skill games often is decisive even when the killer is dominant due to how killer emblems works. However, from the survivor perspective, as a solo player, the hatch lets you play a high skill game with low skill teammates through purely personal excellent play, so it is still a very good mechanic.
Keys just flat out shouldn't interact with the hatch, or if they do should only remove the person who used it AND the option for anyone else to hatch.
The problem with keys is they completely destroy the killer's ability to correctly apply pressure and make winning a game vs a key unfun as hell. In that way, they are worse than moris, despite moris being 'more powerful' because they so drastically screw over one side of the game's ability to really do much of anything, while Moris merely remove one hook state and change the pace of tempo. While to the individual survivor getting Mori'd it sucks, the mori is ultimately less of an NPE than being in a game with 2-3 gens done and feeling actively punished with a loss for killing someone who isn't carrying the key.
The actual equivalent of a killer 'key' would be something like suddenly undoing all the gens and taking away half of the survivor's lightbringer emblem progress, because the key directly mucks with the killer's method of actually winning games in a way moris don't.
Don't get me wrong, Moris DO need to change, and it was smart to not pre-announce the change. Its just even pre-nerf keys were a worse experience for those subjected to them, so its absolutely buckwild moris were changed first without also changing keys and really shows a massive disconnect of the devs with where the community stands, especially when they try to argue keys aren't a problem despite being a tool that single handedly will lose the killer the game unless they play entirely around it in a very unfun way.
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idk what you are smoking dude, but can I get some? it seems like the best buzz ever.
Hatch and Keys are fine as they are, Mori Offerings being incredibly niche in usefulness to Killers is the real crime.
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The hatch will always be necessary because it is the last chance of escape for survivors. What is a survivor supposed to do 1v1 with no hatch option, just roll over for the killer and give into them? In the majority of 1v1 situations, any halfway decent killer will always down the last survivor because that is how the game is designed. For this reason, the hatch is the great equalizer and even then its not guaranteed a survivor will get it before being sacrificed. Even with endgame, how many times do you see a solo survivor escape when the killer closes the hatch and powers gates? Chances are it's slim-to-none because killer holds all the advantage in this situation, leaving the survivor to fight an up-hill battle. If the gates spawn close to one another it's pretty much a death sentence for the survivor regardless of what they do.
Dezzmont brought up solos, which is another good point because as a solo survivor you can only do so much but you still rely heavily on your teammates' performance. While there are good survivors in higher ranks, you also get idiot teammates and selfish ones that do nothing but ruin your game and be a hinderance to the teams' performance. Ever had a survivor suicide on first hook or DC while at 4-5 gens? I'm sure we all have had a similar experience or heard stories of that happening and it ######### sucks because now the killer has one less threat to worry about and that can easily snowball to a hopeless match. That's where the hatch comes in because it provides the last survivor (assuming there isn't a pink key) an out, but not a guaranteed out. I do wish they'd bring back hatch interrupts for killers though, always thought that was a neat and dynamic feature but they took it out which is definitely a bummer.
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The hatch is a necessary mechanic. The hatch gives the last survivor something to do, a goal they feel they actually have a chance at, and it means they can't hold the killer hostage forever by stealthing around the map.
The problem is that the hatch should be less rewarding for survivors and less punishing for killers. It feels like the hatch is treated like it's even better than escaping through the exit gates, survivors will stop working on gens and play for the hatch, and that's just totally backwards. The hatch is supposed to be a consolation prize for a bad match. It should be that the fewer gens done, the fewer points received for escaping via the hatch; it would require completing all five gens for the hatch to reward the same number of points as an exit gate escape. And like I said, killers shouldn't feel punished by the game's RNG when a survivor escapes through the hatch, because that's what it is, RNG.
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Kind of like how merciless killer for adept used to be just getting a 4K (as it almost always resulted in a merciless), and then they revamped the emblem system and made merciless as killer nearly impossible, even with a 4K, making adepts for killers extremely difficult if not impossible without farming. 🙄Nah, they'd never change something that would so heavily effect achievements. Riiiiight.
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Hatch isn't a necessary mechanic - there are two exit gates that could simply be powered after the second to last survivor dies, giving players a chance, if they play it right, to open a gate. The hatch is instantly open, and it is a pure dice roll on who finds it first in many cases, giving it a very unfair feeling, moreso for killer than survivor (survivor can STILL escape through an exit gate if the hatch is closed, whereas killer is just SOL). EGC should simply start when the second to last survivor dies and gens are not complete, and the hatch is removed. This then requires skill on the part of the survivor to sneakily open the gate and outfox the killer, or the killer to outfox the survivor. Not dumb luck.
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Except it isn't. If EGC starts as soon as the second to last survivor dies, then the last survivors chance of escape is in one of the two powered gates. Any halfway decent survivor can start gate without giving away their position, avoid the killer, and cleverly get the gate open before they return. The hatch is a dumb luck get out of jail free card that requires no skill.
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Here comes the hatch apologists.
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This also have problems, the door location RNG is just as bad as hatch sometimes they are spaced out far out from each other, other times they are literally a small walk away from each other where the killer can stand in between them watch the doors. With this its also leaving it down to dumb luck.
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No argument there, sometimes the RNG on gate proximity to each other is very poor. But that can be programmed to be better with relative ease. Hatch placement is true RNG as it can be anywhere on the ground floor map wide.
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Well what about how long it takes the door to open is the time now fast enough to accommodate getting rid of hatch? and what about perks like left behind? If there is no hatch then how would this perk change?
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In removing hatch, a number of things would need to change. Achievements, hatch spawn addons they recently put in, perks related to hatch, key functions (swapped to chests in my opinion, maybe add new special chests that can only be opened by key that give a high tier item). But in my opinion, they would all be changes for the better.
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I would never use a key to open chests faster or instantly, this is useless since opening a chest takes 6 seconds. Bringing an item just for that is a loss. Plus, there are 2 perks that affect chest opening speed.
Moris are very ok since they changed the fact you need to do it on survivors who are on their last hook.
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I agree with a lot of this, the only thing I would change is to just remove keys and give their aura reading to maps, that way people would actually use them.
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Wouldn't you rather they work on other issues?
Hatch is fine.
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That's not the case at all. Does the killer have no perks? Considering that it takes 20 seconds to open an exit gate without any boosts from perks like wake-up, any halfway decent will not give a survivor a chance because realistically they'll have tracking perks like BBQ and/or Whispers. Take the hatch out of the equation and that's one less thing the killer won't have to worry about finding it so that's more time to come straight to you. You do realize how easy it is to track with the info a killer gets just from BBQ, right? So once that last survivor is hooked it'll come down to RNG. Unless your RNG luck is so bad and those gates are spread out on a map like Mother's Dwelling or Azarov's, the Killer will most likely catch the survivor as they open the gate just about every single time. Won't matter if they hide in a locker or try to be stealthy because the probability of a survivor being caught in the act is very high in this situation, especially with a good high mobility killer.
I feel I should also mention stealth killers because there are high mobility stealth killers (i.e. Wraith) that can get the drop on you before you even know you've been spotted, which makes the gate a moot point since you'll be chased off. Realistically, the Killer can also just go "X" amount of feet to get a good look at one gate and then go back to a spot where they have a good view of the other gate, meaning they won't have to run the full distance to the gate just to see what's going on. Watch any Rank 1 killer and that is exactly what they'll do, get a good vantage point where they can see both gates without committing to going to one or another unless they spot the survivor. There's also the fact that Devs are making maps smaller, which only decreases that chance to get a gate powered on smaller maps because a killer can just walk between the two on a small map regardless of where it spawns, i.e. Badham, Father Campbells, and so on. Makes it next to impossible because when gates are close together there is nothing a survivor can do outside finding the hatch, regardless of how you spin it. Again, This isn't yet taking into account killers with great map mobility already who shine on small maps.
There's no chance of powering a gate even halfway on a small map with a killer that has mobility because of the pressure they can apply and having both gates locked down without losing much in terms of time spent patrolling. I've been playing this game since year 1, and I can count the number of times I've seen a survivor win a 1v1 by powering the gate on one hand because it just isn't something that happens unless the killer is throwing or makes a big mistake. There's literally a ton of variables at play that you'd have to consider before making a change like removing hatch, some of which I covered in this post. No two games are the same and that leads to different experiences and outcomes. That being said, you can be the best survivor in the world, but escaping through gates in a 1v1 is something that'll happen only once in a blue moon, and certainly not enough to be to warrant a hatch change until there is a better mechanic in place to replace the hatch.
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I think 100% removal of hatch is not needed...Since 1v1s happen.
However, the rest I agree with
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Mori is already useless now.
Keys should only let one players through the hatch only. Not any other players.
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