Bloodlust Nerfed: The Creation of More Infinites
One of the most baffling balance decisions I've ever seen was the nerf to Bloodlust when most major window loops were specifically designed around the killers:
a.) being several magnitudes slower than survivors at vaulting windows
b.) going off of ledges with momentum and sliding a further distance than they intend to drop off to
c.) having a weird delay before regaining control on large drops, like a survivor already has
d.) utilizing Bloodlust as a failsafe to catch someone
Prior to the Bloodlust nerf, I hadn't encountered infinites. The closest things were the "hanging tree" on Coldwind Farm--due to the guaranteed pallet and vault--the double through-windowed barn on Fractured Cowshed, and the windows on both floors of the Red Forest cabin (even the small corner shack is really bad to deal with now). All were dealt with by being forced to stack up Bloodlust. It was obviously a patchwork fix to the problem, but it worked in that regard.
However, now that there's no longer an emergency band-aid mechanic to cover for the mediocre map procedural for chase balance, so previous strings of windows that weren't infinites or near-infinites now are. And now that Bloodlust is worse, all long loops that rely on Bloodlust are simultaneously that much better.
I knew this nerf was a bad idea the moment it was announced because there wasn't a snowball's chance in Hell that they were going to change vaults to accommodate it. A lot of map variations became worse to play because the swing in RNG is now far more severe, and more likely to roll against the killer.
Comments
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Totally true.
They talked about a trade off on stream, making BL slower, but faster to gain stacks, since you lose stacks already to fast anyway.
But a plain nerf was outright wrong.
The maps have not been changed that much to justify it.9 -
They probably nerfed BL in order to satisfy the Survivors who whined about 2.1.0. Same thing with the kobe and hook rescue cancel changes.
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The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.
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I’ve never even reached BL3 before, and I’ve been at rank 1 killer tons of times
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I don't mind the changes, but I do think the Dev's should have made the changes vary based on killer's speed and powers. It impacted killers like huntress and hag far more than others.2
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@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And no survivor should be allowed to loop houses in Haddonfield and Badham forever because of the procedural system constantly spawning them.
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@Wolf74 said:
Totally true.
They talked about a trade off on stream, making BL slower, but faster to gain stacks, since you lose stacks already to fast anyway.
But a plain nerf was outright wrong.
The maps have not been changed that much to justify it.Just a classic BHVR move.
I am currently trying to play at high ranks. SWF ######### so hard on my its not funny anymore.
I will give my best to reach rank 1 and then I will derank like all the other guys to "bully noobs". I will never go through this unbalanced piece of ######### the game is atm again.5 -
A lot of borderline infinites usually involve buildings with windows. I feel like that they spent a long time trying to change window layouts which does work to some degree but what I think is the right approach is increasing entity window blockers from 16 seconds up to 36 seconds.
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@Williamz said:
A lot of borderline infinites usually involve buildings with windows. I feel like that they spent a long time trying to change window layouts which does work to some degree but what I think is the right approach is increasing entity window blockers from 16 seconds up to 36 seconds.36 is a bit much but 20 would be fine and if they vault a window right next to it say 5 feet that window has 1 less charge so to speak.
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The entity window blocker needs to be more generous and longer lasting.
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I never will understand why the bloodlust nerf was a thing. It simply doesn’t make sense. The last thing anyone should think after looping a killer around for 45 seconds is “wow, bloodlust is so op”. Should be more like “I just wasted a minute of the killer’s time and exchanged one hook for 2 generators”. I don’t even understand why they did this, it doesn’t make any sense7
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There are a lot of really long loops. I don’t see how wasting 45 seconds of your time to get a speed boost to close the distance of a loop is considered overly rewarding, especially since it can be lost just by cutting line of sight for a few seconds. I don’t understand how you can complain about bloodlust when it’s needed in a lot of situationsonly1biggs said:The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.
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@powerbats said:
@Williamz said:
A lot of borderline infinites usually involve buildings with windows. I feel like that they spent a long time trying to change window layouts which does work to some degree but what I think is the right approach is increasing entity window blockers from 16 seconds up to 36 seconds.36 is a bit much but 20 would be fine and if they vault a window right next to it say 5 feet that window has 1 less charge so to speak.
You'd be surprised on some maps as a lot of loop infamous areas have jungle gyms next to them which can easily make 20 seconds fly by. I honestly think 33 - 36 seconds is more adequate.
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@Williamz said:
@powerbats said:
@Williamz said:
A lot of borderline infinites usually involve buildings with windows. I feel like that they spent a long time trying to change window layouts which does work to some degree but what I think is the right approach is increasing entity window blockers from 16 seconds up to 36 seconds.36 is a bit much but 20 would be fine and if they vault a window right next to it say 5 feet that window has 1 less charge so to speak.
You'd be surprised on some maps as a lot of loop infamous areas have jungle gyms next to them which can easily make 20 seconds fly by. I honestly think 33 - 36 seconds is more adequate.
Split the difference and go for 25 but only that 1 window and NOT A WINDOW MORE !!!!!!!!
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@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?4 -
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
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@DexyIV said:
only1biggs said:The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.
There are a lot of really long loops. I don’t see how wasting 45 seconds of your time to get a speed boost to close the distance of a loop is considered overly rewarding, especially since it can be lost just by cutting line of sight for a few seconds. I don’t understand how you can complain about bloodlust when it’s needed in a lot of situations
Those 45 seconds can be spent on other people in more vulnerable spots. Bloodlust isn't needed 90% of the time.
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@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You intentionally twist things upside down I guess, huh?
Please don't insult my intelligence here… survivor abuse these all well known spots all the time from mid to high ranks.4 -
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You must not play at higher ranks where most survivors know the maps, their variations, and the specific loops inside and out. It doesn't matter if the killer is a god; there's nothing they can do against infinites.
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Then how is it unbalanced if they don’t even need it most of the time to kill you? It’s there in the event where it is needed, which is on those really long loops like the Coldwind Farm tree. I don’t think people should be able to loop that forever personally.only1biggs said:@DexyIV said:
only1biggs said:The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.
There are a lot of really long loops. I don’t see how wasting 45 seconds of your time to get a speed boost to close the distance of a loop is considered overly rewarding, especially since it can be lost just by cutting line of sight for a few seconds. I don’t understand how you can complain about bloodlust when it’s needed in a lot of situations
Those 45 seconds can be spent on other people in more vulnerable spots. Bloodlust isn't needed 90% of the time.
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@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
Its just balancing around the low ranks, thats what the devs do.
As long as you avoid the high ranks as killer, you are fine1 -
@Eninya said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You must not play at higher ranks where most survivors know the maps, their variations, and the specific loops inside and out. It doesn't matter if the killer is a god; there's nothing they can do against infinites.
If the killer would be a god, then it would be a nurse that would laugh about infinites.
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@DexyIV said:
only1biggs said:@DexyIV said:
only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.
There are a lot of really long loops. I don’t see how wasting 45 seconds of your time to get a speed boost to close the distance of a loop is considered overly rewarding, especially since it can be lost just by cutting line of sight for a few seconds. I don’t understand how you can complain about bloodlust when it’s needed in a lot of situations
Those 45 seconds can be spent on other people in more vulnerable spots. Bloodlust isn't needed 90% of the time.
Then how is it unbalanced if they don’t even need it most of the time to kill you? It’s there in the event where it is needed, which is on those really long loops like the Coldwind Farm tree. I don’t think people should be able to loop that forever personally.
Everytime there is a jungle gym next to it (sometimes even two) you can basicalyl concede if the survivor know what they are doing.
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@DexyIV said:
only1biggs said:@DexyIV said:
only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.
There are a lot of really long loops. I don’t see how wasting 45 seconds of your time to get a speed boost to close the distance of a loop is considered overly rewarding, especially since it can be lost just by cutting line of sight for a few seconds. I don’t understand how you can complain about bloodlust when it’s needed in a lot of situations
Those 45 seconds can be spent on other people in more vulnerable spots. Bloodlust isn't needed 90% of the time.
Then how is it unbalanced if they don’t even need it most of the time to kill you? It’s there in the event where it is needed, which is on those really long loops like the Coldwind Farm tree. I don’t think people should be able to loop that forever personally.
I like those arguments.^^
"Bloodlust nerf is fine" versus "Bloodlust isn't even needed"
Than why the heck does it get a nerf if it isn't that powerful in the first place? XD2 -
@Eninya said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You must not play at higher ranks where most survivors know the maps, their variations, and the specific loops inside and out. It doesn't matter if the killer is a god; there's nothing they can do against infinites.
I play in red rank. I 4k 90% of the time. With M1 killers too. Shocking
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@DexyIV said:
only1biggs said:@DexyIV said:
only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.
There are a lot of really long loops. I don’t see how wasting 45 seconds of your time to get a speed boost to close the distance of a loop is considered overly rewarding, especially since it can be lost just by cutting line of sight for a few seconds. I don’t understand how you can complain about bloodlust when it’s needed in a lot of situations
Those 45 seconds can be spent on other people in more vulnerable spots. Bloodlust isn't needed 90% of the time.
Then how is it unbalanced if they don’t even need it most of the time to kill you? It’s there in the event where it is needed, which is on those really long loops like the Coldwind Farm tree. I don’t think people should be able to loop that forever personally.
Most killers don't know how to chase correctly, just like most survivors don't know how to loop correctly.
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@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You intentionally twist things upside down I guess, huh?
Please don't insult my intelligence here… survivor abuse these all well known spots all the time from mid to high ranks.Twist things? Not at all.
All the time huh? Are you sure about that? Sounds to me like you need your intelligence to be insulted if you actually believe that.
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@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You intentionally twist things upside down I guess, huh?
Please don't insult my intelligence here… survivor abuse these all well known spots all the time from mid to high ranks.Twist things? Not at all.
All the time huh? Are you sure about that? Sounds to me like you need your intelligence to be insulted if you actually believe that.
I'm done arguing with you… no point in it. I am pretty sure, you know better, but you would never admit it to keep pushing your agenda.
But I will keep speaking up if you spit more nonsense.
Just feel free to ignore my postings, because I don't talk to you, but to those reading your crap and I try to prevent them from believing your fairy tales.hushthe easter bunny isn't realhush
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I suck at looping and I do indeed know where at rank 1 all the good looping spots are but i don't abuse them either. I'll try and loop 2-3x if needed to break los if i can then try and sneak off and evade.
But most of the time at rank 1 the killer either gets me on the loop spot or hopefully thinks I've got godlike Dwight looping skills and gives up.
There's some people at rank 1 I know no matter what name they play at are godlike loopers and a lot of the killers do as well. But even then they'll still go after them because half the time they'll gt them they've versed them for so long.
For the most part if you need BL3 to end a chase you're just being a bad killer since it's very rare for most to ever get to bl2 in chase.
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@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You intentionally twist things upside down I guess, huh?
Please don't insult my intelligence here… survivor abuse these all well known spots all the time from mid to high ranks.Twist things? Not at all.
All the time huh? Are you sure about that? Sounds to me like you need your intelligence to be insulted if you actually believe that.
I'm done arguing with you… no point in it. I am pretty sure, you know better, but you would never admit it to keep pushing your agenda.
But I will keep speaking up if you spit more nonsense.
Just feel free to ignore my postings, because I don't talk to you, but to those reading your crap and I try to prevent them from believing your fairy tales.hushthe easter bunny isn't realhush
Arguing? I'm not sure you know how to given your childish responses.
It's not crap, it's just that the majority of people complaining about such things as nerfs to bloodlust, are the people who don't want to learn new things or play better, or have been convinced they can't. Sure, there are many issues, but not as much as people here would have you believe. Otherwise, why would I and many others not have any issues and 4k 90% of the time? Against a good group on a bad map, I'll take the loss, but it's so few and far between it doesn't matter.
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@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You intentionally twist things upside down I guess, huh?
Please don't insult my intelligence here… survivor abuse these all well known spots all the time from mid to high ranks.Twist things? Not at all.
All the time huh? Are you sure about that? Sounds to me like you need your intelligence to be insulted if you actually believe that.
I'm done arguing with you… no point in it. I am pretty sure, you know better, but you would never admit it to keep pushing your agenda.
But I will keep speaking up if you spit more nonsense.
Just feel free to ignore my postings, because I don't talk to you, but to those reading your crap and I try to prevent them from believing your fairy tales.hushthe easter bunny isn't realhush
Wolf, you argue with everyone on these forums.
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Skidaddle Skiddoodle, let's all get Bamboozle!
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@Williamz said:
Wolf, you argue with everyone on these forums.
Agreed and if you look at the responses they'll argue to different and opposing things at the same time in one post. Very obvious troll now for those that haven't figured it out, even the other killers have been calling this one out.
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@Williamz said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You intentionally twist things upside down I guess, huh?
Please don't insult my intelligence here… survivor abuse these all well known spots all the time from mid to high ranks.Twist things? Not at all.
All the time huh? Are you sure about that? Sounds to me like you need your intelligence to be insulted if you actually believe that.
I'm done arguing with you… no point in it. I am pretty sure, you know better, but you would never admit it to keep pushing your agenda.
But I will keep speaking up if you spit more nonsense.
Just feel free to ignore my postings, because I don't talk to you, but to those reading your crap and I try to prevent them from believing your fairy tales.hushthe easter bunny isn't realhush
Wolf, you argue with everyone on these forums.
Only with those that try to spread their biased agendas and do not care for balance at all.
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Im sorry to tell you, but if you relied on the old bloodlust 3 to catch survivors, you're just bad at playing killer.
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@Wolf74 said:
@Williamz said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
You intentionally twist things upside down I guess, huh?
Please don't insult my intelligence here… survivor abuse these all well known spots all the time from mid to high ranks.Twist things? Not at all.
All the time huh? Are you sure about that? Sounds to me like you need your intelligence to be insulted if you actually believe that.
I'm done arguing with you… no point in it. I am pretty sure, you know better, but you would never admit it to keep pushing your agenda.
But I will keep speaking up if you spit more nonsense.
Just feel free to ignore my postings, because I don't talk to you, but to those reading your crap and I try to prevent them from believing your fairy tales.hushthe easter bunny isn't realhush
Wolf, you argue with everyone on these forums.
Only with those that try to spread their biased agendas and do not care for balance at all.
You pretty much described yourself. lol.
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@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
What rank are you? Because the majority of survivor and killer games I've been in between ranks 7 - 1 has involved at least 2 survivors being competent enough to abuse loops in the most efficient manner possible. Maybe your matchmaking luck is different to mine and others but survivors being efficient is much more common than a bad killer.
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If it was never used then why nerf BL3 then? @Jack11803Jack11803 said:I’ve never even reached BL3 before, and I’ve been at rank 1 killer tons of times
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@Nickenzie said:
Jack11803 said:I’ve never even reached BL3 before, and I’ve been at rank 1 killer tons of times
If it was never used then why nerf BL3 then? @Jack11803
Probably to punish bad killer plays. Even harder than the time wasted just getting it. There are a few times when it’s completly out of the killers control, in that case I still didn’t get B3 due to chase breaks and other stuff. It’s useless and just used as a tool to focus someone down (and not strategically)
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@JackieEstacadoWhen said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
What rank are you? Because the majority of survivor and killer games I've been in between ranks 7 - 1 has involved at least 2 survivors being competent enough to abuse loops in the most efficient manner possible. Maybe your matchmaking luck is different to mine and others but survivors being efficient is much more common than a bad killer.
Rank 1 (Billy, Wraith, Myers, Trapper, Freddy, Doc) You are incorrect. Maybe you're just a bad killer? Maybe you need to improve your chases?
Why do people always ask that? Like rank means anything other than time played.
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only1biggs said:
@JackieEstacadoWhen said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
What rank are you? Because the majority of survivor and killer games I've been in between ranks 7 - 1 has involved at least 2 survivors being competent enough to abuse loops in the most efficient manner possible. Maybe your matchmaking luck is different to mine and others but survivors being efficient is much more common than a bad killer.
Rank 1 (Billy, Wraith, Myers, Trapper, Freddy, Doc) You are incorrect. Maybe you're just a bad killer? Maybe you need to improve your chases?
Why do people always ask that? Like rank means anything other than time played.
Which points exactly was I incorrect?What parts of my post say I have trouble with chases? I know the tricks and when it's smart to just leave someone alone and my games go great most of the time. Not saying I don't need to improve on things but your post suggests you underestimate me.Rank doesn't equate to skill exactly but it does factor into matchmaking which can affect who you get in your games and that's why I asked, not because I believe your bad.0 -
@JackieEstacadoWhen said:
only1biggs said:@JackieEstacadoWhen said:
@only1biggs said:
@Wolf74 said:
@only1biggs said:
The nerf was a good thing, as no killer should be rewarded for bad plays with a speed boost.
And how about the survivor abusing broken loop spots?
They get rewarded for exploiting bad map RNG?
True, but what's more common? A survivor knowing these spots and being able to use them in such a manner, or a bad killer not knowing how to chase correctly?
I'll tell you. It's the bad killer.
What rank are you? Because the majority of survivor and killer games I've been in between ranks 7 - 1 has involved at least 2 survivors being competent enough to abuse loops in the most efficient manner possible. Maybe your matchmaking luck is different to mine and others but survivors being efficient is much more common than a bad killer.
Rank 1 (Billy, Wraith, Myers, Trapper, Freddy, Doc) You are incorrect. Maybe you're just a bad killer? Maybe you need to improve your chases?
Why do people always ask that? Like rank means anything other than time played.
Which points exactly was I incorrect?
What parts of my post say I have trouble with chases? I know the tricks and when it's smart to just leave someone alone and my games go great most of the time. Not saying I don't need to improve on things but your post suggests you underestimate me.
Rank doesn't equate to skill exactly but it does factor into matchmaking which can affect who you get in your games and that's why I asked, not because I believe your bad.
"Survivors being efficient is much more common than a bad killer." This. This was incorrect.
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I disagree with both of you.powerbats said:@Williamz said:
Wolf, you argue with everyone on these forums.
Agreed and if you look at the responses they'll argue to different and opposing things at the same time in one post. Very obvious troll now for those that haven't figured it out, even the other killers have been calling this one out.
He never argued with me.2
