Face camping easy fix?
I've been trying to get a few friends into this game. At high ranks you run into a lot of face camping, we all know this. This isn't usually a big deal in terms of winning the game, but what is the suggestion you always see for countering it? Gen rush. Sure the other 3 still "win". But it is really lame for the person who only gets to sit and watch from the hook after playing for 2 minutes and gets barely any BP. It's also usually the newer friends who end up being the victims. I tell them it isn't as big of a deal later on but it can be very discouraging for new players and BT only goes so far.
Face camping already hurts killers in terms of winning and in BP but newer players may not be aware or may not care, they just want to get a kill. Tunneling is a tougher problem to deal with but for face camping, why not just make it so that if the killer stays within a certain radius around the hook for say 20-30 seconds, the hook progression freezes until they are a certain distance away. They can have some sort of indication to let them know this is happening. The distance/time specifics can be worked out to minimize hurting people who are just chasing somewhat near the hook, but that is the general idea.
Or hell, since this has been a problem for years now, at the very least give the player a safety pip if the killer has spent 50-75% of the players hook duration standing next to it because it's not like they've really had a chance to get points (Even ranks <16 should have some protection from immediate face camp).
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This was a mechanic that was tried and tested some time ago - it didn't work then and it probably wouldn't work now, due to the fact that sometimes a killer needs to stay near a hook, if a gen is close to completion for example or if another survivor is in the area.
And no, a safety pip shouldn't be given - pips should be earned, not given away.
Camping/tunnelling are all mechanics in this game, it's a thing that does need to be got used to. Survivors have perks that can help counteract both of those mechanics as well, it's down to them if they want to use them. But the best way to punish a camping killer is just to do the generators and get out, you might still get the opportunity to make a save (if you have Borrowed Time) but focusing on the generators in those circumstances is the wisest decision to make.
Yes I appreciate it's not so fun because the fun thing in DbD is the chases imo, but players have a right to play their own way (providing it's in the game rules) and the killer is already getting punished by losing the match, not pipping (will probably get a black pip), and getting hardly any points.
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You can always just trade hooks with BT
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"sometimes a killer needs to stay near a hook, if a gen is close to completion for example or if another survivor is in the area."
True I suppose in that sometimes hooks are really close to gens.
"And no, a safety pip shouldn't be given - pips should be earned, not given away."
I really don't see it as "giving away" a pip, as you aren't making any progress toward ranking up, nor losing progress. Just a neutral result, instead of losing a pip you had no chance of maintaining. A throwaway game, which it essentially is.
"You can always just trade hooks with BT"
This rarely seems to work out in any meaningful way with these types of new killers. The killer usually just chases their original target for an extra 20-30 seconds and re-hooks them to continue camping.
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I was told that bbq & chili is the only perk preventing face camping. Anyway, bullshit aside, Kindred is a must. More than it ever was before. I don't play with SWF teams but even they use it a lot more now. The information is too valuable. If it's a killer that's not viable without bbq, you'll see them coming. A face camper, you can keep working on gens or try a rescue with borrowed time.
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"At high ranks you run into a lot of face camping"
What? It's happened to me twice in a year and I play 5-10 games per day. It happens in low ranks not red ranks it's super rare.
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I can understand your frustration; we have all been where you are now. There are a couple of things I wanted to comment on. Mandy pretty much said all the important stuff, so I'm not going to reiterate her wisdom. Instead consider:
- No, Squatting (what I call face camping) is not common in the potent Ranks. It is pretty common in the Potato Ranks, but not so much after. New Killers are desperate to get at least one Kill and don't really know anymore than new Survivors. They don't know how to find them. They don't know how to mind game them. For them, a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. Something is better than nothing in their mind. Sadly, this is the opposite of the truth. Squatting (again, what I call face camping) is detrimental to Killers long term as they are giving up precious time and pressure. What is worse they are not getting practice in hunting, mind games, or LOOPING. These are key skills that are not being improved while they continue to squat on one unfortunate Survivor.
- Time is the most precious resource Survivors have in the game. Squatters give you free time. Use it. Keep in mind that if you are getting sat on by a Killer you are doing the most important thing you can for your team. You are letting them get Generators up. Perhaps they will have time to come get you, perhaps not. But the TEAM is winning.
- This is a 4v1 game, and it was never expected for all the Survivors to get out, nor for the Killer to always get a 4K. Naturally every individual would like to survive the match, and it is a given that the Killer wants to get as many of you as he/she can. You must go into every game expecting to die, so that you aren't worrying about it constantly. Accept it so you can get on with the real work. You will get better (and so will those you introduce) and survival will become more and more common. Set realistic expectations and long term goals, i.e. goals which happen over the course of all your games. If I find I'm in a match with a Squatter, I do the best I can for my team but if I'm about to go down and I KNOW I'm going to get camped, I head into the hinterland of the map (where there are no Generators or ones already done) so that I'm taking the Killer as far away from the others as possible. I take pride in making sure that if I die, the others get out. That is how you have to look at Survivor. If you are not a team player, you should be playing Killer more. Survivor, if you want to be good and win more often, means you (and your teammates) have to be about the TEAM first. The old Football saying, "there is no 'I' in team" is very appropriate in this context.
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This is why it can be confusing that the rank system goes down not up when communicating, do I say higher ranks as in number or higher ranks as in closer to 1. Lol. Yes, obviously I mean high ranks as in higher numbers.
And yes, the survivor team "wins" the game. But it's just an outright ######### game for that one person that they have no control over (eventually someone has to go down), more-so considering the common suggestion is to do gens rather than unhook, ie the best solution is to not rescue them. And they have no chance to attempt to outplay the killer next time, to get points in any way, and they are doomed to de-pip that match. It is fun for nobody, even the winners.
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I don't know why they don't do it, they already have a perk that tries to do something similar, it's just a matter of polishing the perk to actually make it good and viable and not trash like it currently is...
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Campers and tunnelers are the worst part of this game. I’m sure they remove more players from this game that any other stuff. But devs think is fine, can’t imagine a reason
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Yea, I even thought about having my friend who has the worst luck with campers run it. Thinking maybe it'd buy more time to get the exit gates open and go for the end-game rescue. But like, that 36 seconds would just be better utilized by me, again, doing a gen.
It's so accepted that the loading screen tip in DbD mobile touches on face campers and their suggestion is to...do gens and avoid the rescue. I just find it very strange after all this time that such a universally despised gameplay mechanic is seemingly unsolvable to the point that the best response is for one person to essentially sit the entire round out and de-rank while everyone else also has a boring game.
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Dunno the region you play but i guess it's in North America.
In EU, camping & tunneling or leaving the hook, going 15 meters away to instantly come back is happening in 80% of the game, even more...
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I get you, Face camping is actually bad for the killer but still unfun for the one being camped, I invited a friend to play the game, he played the game for a few days, when I asked him if he liked it his answer was ''I spent around 60% of my time playing doing nothing...just watching the killer face camp me from the hook, how is doing nothing supposed to be fun?'' it's not like the mechanic is unbalanced because it's basically a lose/lose scenario for the killer if the survivors know what they are doing but it is extremely unfun especially for new players, sometimes even a deterrent for them to keep playing the game but I don't think devs will do anything about it at this point.
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Agree. I create some posts about it, but they removed them. They don’t see it in North America, but mornings in eu are a hell of campers, imagine the reason
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For the guy being camped, it's terribly boring and not fun.
There are tons of possible ways of fixing it :
- increase the time it takes to go P2 and P3 when the killer is near the hook
- increase the speed of doing generators when the killer is in the near
- makes borrow time a free power an not a perk
- decreasing the killer's points when he is near the hook or hooking a survivor twice in a row
etc...
Also those options could be conditioned "if there is more than 1 gen left to be done", "if you tunnel and hook the same survivor twice in a row".
Anyway, i don't care now, killer is camping and tunneling someone ? If it's me i suicide immediately, and i go next time; if it's anotehr player i go to the killer to be hooked and i suicide.
Does it ruin the game for other survivors ? yes, i don't care, killer is ruining my game so why should i care ? I'm suiciding almost 50% of my games now in red rank.
Sad to be forced to play like this but well... BHVR tolerate that killers are able to ruin someone's game, so...
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It confuses me when the decision is made to ruin someone else's fun because someone ruined your fun. Running to the killer or suiciding doesn't help your team. When I am face camped, I try to stay on the hook as long as possible to give me teammates the most time possible. I always run Kindred as well, so they can see the killer standing right there and I hope they are working on gens and not trying to save me.
I also warn the people in the lobby if I've encountered campers that day (such as today, a clown and a doctor.)
As a killer, I don't camp or tunnel. I play more by survivor rules. Even if I am trying to stop an unhook attempt, I try not to hit the hooked player and I don't chase after them once they are free. If I run into 2 survivors at a gen, I tend to chase the one that hasn't been hooked, or was hooked longer ago.
I strive to maximize the fun for all players, regardless if I am playing as a survivor or killer.
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I don't want to ruin their fun but i don't care about it anymore, i won't wait on my hook for games and games and games, i don't play to wait on hook...
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there are players that enjoy facecamping and you want to ruin their game because you dont like it?
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xD
Face camping is ruining the game for the survivor.
Face camping is not a gameplay mechanic, it's nothing, staying next to a hooked survivor and waiting, how waiting can be an interesting gameplay for anyone ?
Face camping doesn't bring anything good for the killer if the 3 others are gen rushing so it ruins the game for the killer and the survivor.
In fact, when you do the list of things facecamping adn tunneling bring to the game, you clearly see that this can't be a feature in this game.
- Either other 3 survivors gen rush, they go out, killer lost the game, the camped/tunneled survivor game is ruined
- Either other 3 survivors try to save the game, they don't do gens then and everyone ends up dead, killer won the game but the game is ruined for all survivors
- Either the guy on hook suicide/DC, the game is ruined for the other 3 survivors
In all 3 points, one or more players have a terrible experience in a video game that has a purpose to be fun :). It doesn't work, clearly and it has to be removed.
Another way to fix it easily : once a survivor is hooked, the hook disappear in the ground and reappear somewhere random on the map, somewhere the killer can't see. If there is one gens left and no survivor killed, the hook stay in place.
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Your response is kinda cute...
I know what "camping" is. And im not a brainless AI or bot, I know how to shift the game in my favor. But I know, survivors are always the innocent victims, thats what they are known for. They get abused so much that its unbelievable there are still any left.
i probalby won more games with a facecamping Insidious nurse than you have played games overall. ;)
please stop trying to enlightening me.
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This. A high rank killer is losing if he facecamps. That's assuming his opponents know how to play at all.
Also facecamping was patched out years ago. You're talking about "camping"
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How often does that happen though? Freezing hook progression for the killer staying too close to the hook for too long is probably the best answer to this problem to discourage it. This is also an idea that has come up with my friends who play this game and we feel it would be successful. The thing is, camping is considered toxic to a lot of survivors and it literally makes people not want to play the game. If no survivor/killer interaction is going on by a hooked survivor then the hooked survivor's bar should freeze until either interaction between other players happens nearby or the killer leaves. I can't think of a better solution to this problem though I have thought of a few before that I'd like to talk about at some time.
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At the very least, the camping BP penalty should be bigger. In fact you could show the killer in game in the same way you show gains, something like -500BP camping penalty. To deal with any potentially valid reasons a killer has to stay in the vicinity of a hooked survivor, you could run an algorithm to check prior to imposing the penalty. Alternatively you hit survivors with the crows if they stay still for any length of time, why not do a similar thing for a camping killer? Progressively blur their vision or hit them with an M1 cooldown, something...
I agree completely that the perfect answer to a camping killer, undetectable or not, is for survivors to complete gens and exit. This, however, frequently does not happen, and survivors keep trying to go for a rescue and we just wind up in rinse and repeat reiterations of swapping survivors who are on the hook, it's completely ridiculous and I agree with those above who said it ruins the game for survivors. It really ruins the game for the killer too, as they do not learn how to go out and hunt survivors down like they're supposed to.
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It's not discouraging enough to face camp. In theory, the killer can't afford camping someone on their first hook if other 3 are rushing gens meanwhile.
In real life, lower ranks and especially solo, it doesn't work that way. Other survivors could be doing gens but 2 of them approach the hook, see that killer is camping, crouch behind a rock thinking what to do, run around a little and try to lure the killer away. Then notice that the one on hook can't be saved. The hooked survivor died and not much gens were done during that time.
I think the hook timer should be longer. So long that it discourages camping and leaves team mates time to do gens even after they have tried rescuing.
Camping works unfortunately and it's bad for the health of the game.
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A safety pip isn’t really earning a pip per se, as it leads to no progression. It’s simply a net zero pip
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Also, isn’t that a game mechanic/design flaw issue if you can negate the ability for someone to play in any meaningful way? I just think about CoD and old school Demolition, where teams could spawn camp and kill you before you even had the chance to move. Eventually, Demolition was removed from future CoDs except once in a very rare weekend event because of the issue. Just my two cents
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There are players who enjoy spawn camping, hacking, using extremely OP items, or just ruining games for other people. What is your point exactly?
And no, I don't buy that many people necessarily enjoy it. Maybe if survivors are new and run into the hook for you to get you more downs. If they just do gens then everyone basically sits around until the game ends. The killer likely standing by the hook in frustration from previous games and they've decided to take it out on one survivor. I can't believe that joy is what they feel at those times.
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