If the devs are going to nerf DS-Unbreakable, i can guarantee it's going to be a shadow-nerf
We saw with Insta-heals that if the devs make a change to something overpowered then everyone will run that thing and make games miserable as a form of protest, and we saw with Moris that the devs have learned from this and shadow-nerf things in order to stop scenarios like that happening again
So, We probably all know that 4 DS-Unbreakables is about as fun face as a god Nurse, so i'm certain that if the devs are going to change the combo then it'll be a shadow nerf that comes out of the blue, in order to prevent the scenario where every survivor runs it and making every game boring as hell
That may just be wishful thinking though, what are your thoughts?
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No no, they shadownerf things that make killers stronger. Don't worry, they will let thier precious survivors know when they are about to nerf DS+Unbreakable (If it ever actually happens).
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Oh shut up they nerfed everything survivors had that was OP stop making it look like killers always get nerfed
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Everything except the "Invulnerability Combo"?
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Don’t feel either of those perks are getting nerfed... definitely not anytime soon, anyway
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I think you and I have very different definitions of the word "Everything"
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I don't get why people complain about this. It's two perk slots for things you can only use once. Yeah, it's irritating, but there's an easy workaround. Don't tunnel people. It's not hard. If one person just got unhooked, go for the other guy. Seriously, all this complaining about people punishing killers for having bad manners. If someone is able to DS you, you shouldn't have gone for them in the first place. If you down someone and they can't DS you, grab and hook em, so Unbreakable doesn't do anything.
Now, I get that there are toxic survivors out there, I play both sides, but these are reactionary perks, not like flashlights or head on. I do find it funny that when I complain about Doctor and the list of like, sixteen different abilities he has, the killer mains tell me to quit being a baby and get good. Shoe's on the other foot here.
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Nah, killer mains aren't really able to process that, or at least the vast majority of the people who come onto these forums appear not to be. Why avoid the problem in the first place, when you can tunnel the same guy again (which you would probably be doing even without said perks) and then come whining over the forums? You've gotta have something to say to at least give the resemblance of a fair point, right? Some days ago someone literally posted videos of him playing Doctor, going into DS on purpose, then acting surprised and crying in here. Sure, when it happens during EGC it's another thing, but during the match it's not that big of a deal. Not in the slightest. Unless you are a weak killer, that is (and I mean player, not character).
Anyway, OP, I can't really see how the Mori nerf, which was a rightful one (though it should have been coupled with a key nerf, too) can be considered to be a shadow nerf. Shadow nerfs are nerfs that aren't announced, while the Mori change was specifically written in the patch notes.
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Eventhough it sounds right I still have to disagree with you on that one.
I've been hit by ds several times while I don't even tunnel.
Hooked 2 other survivors when I found the first survivor again.
When i downed her and picked her up I got hit by ds.
Tell me were did I tunnel her and why is it justified that I got hit by ds?
That is the problem what a lot of people fail to see, you don't tunnel anyone and still get punished for survivors mistakes.
Now did i tunnel the person straight of the hook and got hit by ds than it would be justified.
But after 1 or 2 new hooks and than get hit by ds from the first survivor is far from fair.
That, that is what need to be changed.
Ds is abused with ub as invulnerability to unhook in your face, do gens or anything else what otherwise would have been punished hard.
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The time limit on DS is not that long. You've got what, 50 seconds? And once it gets burned it's gone. One time use.Same with Unbreakable, you burn it, it's gone. This is, in fact, a pretty niche situation that killers have a tendency to force themselves into. I run DS and oftentimes, I never get a chance to use it because my hooks are too far apart. That's how it should be. So, if you're getting DSed, then maybe you're not trying to tunnel but the timer doesn't lie. Even in that case, it's a one time thing per match per survivor and not everyone runs DS.
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The 'best' way to overhaul DS would be having dynamic perks: perks that change their behaviour if certain other perks are attached. In DS' case this might mean:
if you have DS + Unbreakable DS lasts shorter and you can't use UB until it runs out.
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It's 60 seconds to be exact.
And like I said it most of the time doesn't have anything to do with tunneling but abusing it and forcing the killer to grab you because you are invulnerable for 1 minute.
The best way to change ds is just to deactivate it as soon as you start working on a gen, heal another or yourself, do a unhook or something like that.
About burning it, i can only say what the person above my previous post said.
What's the crying about ruin/undying?
Totem spawns are easy to find and to cleanse and so you got 2 killer perks deactivated.
See itot that hard
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Did you see it with MoM nerf too? Because I didn’t see it since the “rework”
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DS + Unbreakable aren't comparable to instaheals. Perks aren't a limited ressource like items, Addons & Offerings. "Surprise nerfing" one of those makes more sense, because of the reason you said. But with something that you can equip any game either way, it really doesn't matter. You don't have to save them for bad times. So you might as well use it every match.
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How come spirit Slinger and Hag haven’t been nerfed yet if they only listen to survivors. There the most complained killers and yet they haven’t been touched while survivors lost god loops, Insta heals, old DS and BT, exhaustion, they added entity blockers and bloodlust to help killers out. People complain everyday about NOED and yet it hasn’t been nerfed so not everything gets nerfed
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Except that this isn't an equivalent situation. Undying's whole thing is interacting with other perks. Now that it's been changed, there are some strats that won't work, like having every totem being Haunted Ground. But, this also improves other perks by keeping tokens on Lullaby or Devour Hope. It's more dynamic now, and it was meant to be that way and now it does its job in a more balanced fashion. Comparing that to a set of perks that only function under specific circumstances that are entirely dependent on what the killer does is just wrong.
What the community says is important, up to a point. But people are always going to be biased towards what they want. Can't always get what you want. And I say this being someone who plays survivor and killer about the same amount.
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Don't forget you have small game and of course a map with an add on. If you really wanted get it easier you can even run detective hunch but nah survivors want the meta.
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Well, things that got nerfed on Survivor side were broken af. Insta helas, old BNP, infinite loops. Survivors that days had literally the power to never even get hit by a killer (thank god most of them weren't skilled or experienced enough for that. DS and BT are still VERY strong perks, so that one doesn't count as a nerf. Exhaustion, yea..I remember the time when survivors could sprint burst every 20 seconds without having to stop running in between...broken af. Window blockers after vaulting one window three times during a chase, so you can still pretty much abuse god windows. Bloodlust is bullshit, we all know that. NOED already got nerfed/altered two times.
So none of your arguments is valid.
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*a barely noticeable baby nerf, announced with months of advance to allow survivors to abuse the ######### out of them while they can.
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Your such a hypocrite you literally said my points are invalid yet you said the stuff I mentioned was broken on the other side your analysis is flawed!! Yes I know DS and BT are still strong but back then they were OP as ######### DS all you needed to do was get downed and you stun the killer for 5 seconds then BT would apply the bleed out timer to both survivors. If they favored survivors those 2 perks would still be the same so your argument is flawed
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lol you're dreaming if you think those perks will ever get a nerf, especially a meaningful nerf. They're survivor perks so they're not meant to have counter play.
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Hahaha yup.
But you don't think they want to switch that for some meta perks right.
Can you believe how patato they would be if they weren't using ds, ub and even soul guard with it? 😂
And they definitely don't want to switch their key or metkit with insta heals for a map 😂
It's pretty sad tbh if you ask me
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They literally said 100 times that there never changing NOED they literally get posts about it everyday and not one change has been made to this perk since 2018 stop being so biased and whiny get over it it’s a ######### game
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Spirit got nerfed 2, maybe even 3, times so yeah they do nerf them.
Btw, what is wrong with hag, did I miss something?
Since when did she becomes "OP"?
Is that because 1 or more streamers said that?
Because to my knowledge, she has easy counters and isn't even good to commit chases with.
If you are a patato or new to the game I can understand she might seem OP, but she is far from OP.
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No tunnel No slug = No DS No UB ;)
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Sounds logic but it is still flawed.
If you read a previous comment from me you would know.
I've been hit with ds several times after hooking 2 other survivors.
I found survivor 1 again at which you won't expect ds anymore, but what a surprise it was I still got hit by ds.
Now if that to falls under tunneling then I think I might stop playing dbd at all 😂
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If you can down and hook 2 survivors, down a third and pick them up within 60 seconds I don't think that DS is gonna affect the match in any way if you're downing them this fast. It's really stupid when it happens but it's a mild inconvenience at best.
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If you did bother reading my last lines, I specifically said that the key nerf should have been a part of the same update that nerfed Moris, and that should suffice into making you understand how unbiased I try to be, since I tend to play both sides, even though much more killer than survivor, lately. IF you did bother, which you clearly didn't. I guess being a killer main comes with shouting, caps lock and not really reading what you are not interested into because it doesn't work for you. I never even mentioned Undying and Ruin once, and I guess nobody else really did, here. But fine, if you want to go for this ride, let's go. Though, be warned, you gotta be this tall to ride.
Undying and Ruin are pretty much the same thing that so many killers whine about, DS and UB. So yeah, I can't see why you can cry for those, but survivors cannot be doing the same for Undying + Ruin Well, there are many differences. Ruin makes the kicking gens for the killer, at double the regression speed, so it doesn't only act as a slowdown perk, it also saves the killer seconds from having to kick gens. If you apply that to the many instances where you would have kicked it otherwise, it becomes retroactively "semi-op" (please, note the " " before you start doing your thing).
Then, there is another important difference. Totems are RNG, which means that they can be found instantly, or they can stay completely hidden until the end of the match (and in some maps, hell, they are even poorly placed, so they become uninteractable). Oh, and by the way, Hex totems, whichever they might be, were never meant to be able to last a whole game, anyway. DS, on the other hand, only requires the killer to have enough brain to keep track of those survivors who might have it and leave them on the ground, which not only completely erases the perk, making it a wasted perk slot because it won't even serve its purpose, but it also means that other survivors will stop working on gens to go help the one into dying state. If he has UB, he will pick himself up, while you go hunt his friends. Good, so now at least two people are not doing anything, which is what a killer wants to apply pressure. Now, I know, at this point (if you bothered reading this time) you are already eager to write "Oh, but they get into lockers so I am forced to pick them up and let them use it". Well, if that was what you were going to say, can you please spare me your reply? Because that means that you aren't able to process that you AREN'T forced to do anything, just leave them there or fake going away and hit them when they come out. I know, it's that simple.
So, while DS and UB can be bothersome during EGC, if you killers keep crying so desperately about them instead of eating them when you have the chance, or just ignoring people who have DS and are on the ground, you're calling it upon yourselves. Trust me, I always eat DS early to mid game, when I run into the same survivors who were just unhooked (because if I lose it's fine to me, still much better than being a tunneler). And guess what? I still win. And yes, in red ranks (ranks mean nothing anyway. I could be a rank 20 and still play much better than a rank 1). The only thing ranks mean is that you played a lot, or not, during that particular monthly "season". On the other hand, as a killer, the only thing you need to make use of Ruin is to scare survivors off gens, or have them do something else. You can completely deny DS without ever interacting with it. But you can't deny Ruin and Undying without actively looking for them. Yes, those are still much better than NoeD, of course. No, those perks aren't meant to hold your hand throughout the whole duration of the trial. And the aura reading part of Undying shouldn't have been a thing, to be honest.
So yes, DS and UB tend to be overly exxagerated by killers, while Ruin and Undying, while kinda overly exxagerated as well, aren't as much. And to be frank, I think DS should be made stronger against tunnelers. I don't know how, but if there was a way for the perk to detect that you are being chased forever, I would have it being usable more than once. Just for tunnelers, though. Ah, right, one last thing. Don't forget that killers have Bloodlust, something that was added as a direct counter to infinites, that have been removed a while ago. So yeah, if you FAIL to hit survivors for 15 seconds, which is nothing, you are rewared by getting faster. And if you abuse that by respecting pallets and not destroying them, as a lot of maps are really awful pallet/pallet safety wise, you'll get survivors because of Bloodlust alone, not because of skill. I would gladly concede both DS and UB, perhaps even Dead Hard, if tunneling/chases that go on for so long that you may die of old age, camping and Bloodlust were not to be a thing anymore.
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Well, isn't "wanting the meta" the reason why so many people start threads crying about Ruin+Undying being nerfed? And that happened even BEFORE they actually had a chance to test it out in the PTB, and check how it worked with token based hexes. Can't the same be said about the fact that there are so MANY people playing Spirit and Freddy, without ever being able to play killers that actually require a hint of skill? Or wasn't that the reason why people kept playing instasaw Billy, when it still was a thing? Calling names is easy, ain't it?
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Well, I guess it was wrong on my side to expect you to be able to provide an intelligent reply, or at least something that wasn't childish. But you proved my point, showing that you don't really have any points yourself, to begin with. I'd say you were worth my time, but as you said "it's not nice to lie". Ok then, I guess it's past your bedtime, anyway. Be seeing you, kiddo ;)
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i don’t believe you they haven’t said one thing about noed and just because they nerf one thing and don’t nerf the other does not mean biased they literally said keys will be nerfed and they are changing DS to get rid of the abusive property’s of the perk here’s what they said
“It's still frequently discussed among the devs, and do want to do something about the more abusive side to it,”
even though they said it’s not planned yet they want to change it sorry but here’s the truth that they want to change it also keys are different cause they need to make a new animation new addons and ways to not make achievements impossible.
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It didn't but that wasn't my point.
My point is that I don't tunnel and hooked other survivors but I still get punished for the mistakes of the survivors.
And trust me it can for sure turn around the match.
I've had games as survivor where I played just stupid and went down way to fast for my standards.
So when I got unhooked on my 2nd hook the killer thought let's get him out because he's not that good and I can't blame him even though only 2 gens were done.
I hit ds and he kept going for me (even though I understand it it was his mistake), he actually went on losing the match as all 4 of us escaped.
All it takes is 1 survivor on the gen and 1 survivor with ds who can adept when needed the most.
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People hate Hag cause she has the most unfun play style of camping she is a monster at camping
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We don’t even know what it is but anyway I’m done here case and point your a biased killer main who doesn’t like to actually bring points to have an argument
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True she can camp but basically every killer can camp.
If you know you go against hag just crouch and unhook.
If you she she's coming back immediately after the unhook than take a hit.
If she stays to close to the hook than do the same as with every other killer, rush the gens and leave.
Sure it's not fun for the person on the hook, but it punish the killer harder as survivor you rank up easier than killer.
If I'm being camped than I don't mind that the others do gens and leave.
As long as they wait at the exit till my struggle phase is over as it will lose her more points then
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No tunnelling + no slugging mean none of the perks get used up earlier and guarantee an escape if all gens get done. With the prevalence of these perks it makes sense to tunnel and slug early on to get them out of the way, even if there isn't much reason to otherwise.
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Which is a mistake they made and even getting rewarded for it too.
If you have a feeling you get 3 genned, than do whatever you can to stop that.
You got 4 survivors so just spread over gens on 1 side to counter the 3 gen.
Escaping when you allow to get 3 genned, isn't realy a fair mechanic
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Yes killers can camp but Hag and Twins are bad cause Hag can place traps pressure gens teleport back to trap and tunnel that’s not fun same with Twins put Victor near hook, hook survivor then pressure with Charlotte while Victor camps. That’s why there the most hated
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Neither is it to have exit gates spawn next to each other, possibly with a hill in the middle that the killer can sit on. Unless gates spawn on opposite sides of the map, the last survivor will have no chance of escaping, anyway (considering the hatch closed). And well, the whole 3 gen thing isn't exactly fair, either. Having a killer hit someone then go from one gen to another until the end of times gets obnoxious really fast. Sure, that depends on which gens survivor complete, but it shouldn't be possible if they game was properly done. But if you are lamenting multiple survivors escaping through the hatch when 1 gen is missing to power the gates, it means that you weren't really able to keep up with them. You can't blame them directly for that, since you didn't apply enough pressure, nor did you do it fast enough.
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Agree I don't like it when both exits are next to each other I don't argue about that.
They said they "fixed" it but as usual they didn't.
If you let yourself push off the gen realy easy that that is on you.
If you see him coming, you run.
He doesn't chase but just kick the gen, go back and start repairing it.
Yes it is slow but the regression from the kick is barely noticeable and before he's even back you already got more repaired then what he kicked off.
Don't be afraid if you get hit.
If he doesn't commit to the chase than go back and continue while injured.
Or touch it and then heal if you are not confident.
Remember, he has to commit to a chase eventually because he's gonna lose it anyway when all 3 gens are repaired at the same time.
And i disagree with you if they got to 1 gen left, there are multiple factors in play.
They could have used toolboxes, BNP, prove thy self.
It is always possible to get back from it as killer.
I've had a match as scratch mirror myers and I brought a map offering for the game, the survivors brought the clown map and they got it.
They got to 1 gen which wasn't a 3 gen btw and I still got a 4k.
This was before nemesis btw and I don't think I was using pwyf either.
Now if you play killer than you know how terrible slow myers is at T1 and you can barely surprise them on that map.
So yeah it's not always on the killer when they get to 1 gen.
Even if you apply pressure they can easily get to 1 gen left, everyone could even be on their dead hook and still get to 1 gen
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I know it's not that specific situation, he just brought it up.
But indeed getting robbed of a victory because the survivors just played badly and getting rewarded for it is a bad feeling.
I can remember a game as demo on the swamp and they didn't even 3 gen themselves, they just didn't break the portals and I had 2 add ons for recovery speed so I could quickly use portals as soon as i came out of them.
I didn't saw the starting screen so didn't expect they had a key and during the match I didn't pay attention to it.
All of a sudden the game dies and I couldn't find them as the were crouching around the map.
And all of a sudden the game was over because all 3 escaped through the hatch.
Did they deserve that escape?
Not even close as they would have died the next time I put them on the hook.
But because of a broken mechanic that rewards bad play and a single press of 1 button they escaped
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Oh I could careless about what goes on. I play both side and don't bother with undying and ruin. Both sides complained about everything don't you know? I haven't play freddy since his pre-work cause of how bland he gotten.
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And if survs do 5 gens and you can’t kill anyone and then you hit someone at egc and facecamper him isn’t a broken mechanism?
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You can't exactly face camp anymore. Face camp was when the unhooked prompt didn't appeared due to killer standing in front. You can unhooked from either side. Mori can be used on death hooks now and if I hook someone at EGC then pray your team of randoms have borrow time.
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Undying is getting nerfed after it’s been released for 3 months but when DS and UB, 2 perks that have been in the game for 4 yrs they don’t touch it 0_0
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Now that’s a good change my idea was if you take a protection hit or hide in a locker it turns off and so you can’t force it being used by acting as a diversion or taking a hit deliberately
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DS has been nerfed 5 times and unbreakable is so balanced it’s only a problem when paired with DS. Undying was a problem cause it was literally TOTH and Retribution combined and no other perks worked with it. With the change it makes it so now I can run other perks and not just ruin.
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i DoNt TuNnEl, i JuSt HoOk TwIcE wItHiN 60 sEcOnDs!
Killers who complain about DS will wipe survivors out of games within two minutes or less if DS wasn't a thing. Invincibility or not, there's a reason it exists still.
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With dynamic perks a lot of things would be 'easier' to balance I think. sure, it's be a lot of work beforehand, but at bottomline... for example:
If you have borrowed time DS could only trigger if you took a protection hit (and get engaged in a chase.) Because DS has such a bad reputation due to people abusing it to mock the other player more often than it is actually used to punish them for unfair play (tunneling)
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They will never touch those perks
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That’s another thing ds should only proc in a chase after being unhooked or slugged
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