Get rid of 3 and 4 man SWF.

SadonicShadow

I think it is safe to say the devs will never consider segregating SWF into a separate queue or removing it all together but at the very least would it be possible to get a concession on this issue? Entirely remove the ability to make 3 and 4 man SWF games. 3 and 4 man SWF is what begins to make games hellishly toxic. Granted i know solo survivors and even some duos can be awful, there is no question about that but a 3 or 4 man coordinated team is like fighting seal team 6. The game would not suffer the slightest from losing 3 and 4 man squads if anything it would improve the game by making it impossible for cancerous players to queue up together and bully the killer and any players that we would lose because they cant create 3 and 4 man toxic squad will be to the benefit of this game.

Also i know people will say friends will try and lobby hop until they all get together. This could easily be rectified by removing the pregame chat, steam name and ability to view steam profiles.

Jack11803

NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

SadonicShadow

Also change the name of Survive with Friends to Survive with a Friend. > @Jack11803 said:

NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

Your kidding right?

Jack11803

@SadonicShadow said:
Also change the name of Survive with Friends to Survive with a Friend. > @Jack11803 said:

NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

Your kidding right?

No, when the game first released, there was no SWF, I don’t like it either BTW. They then added that, as they were losing money due to no friends mode really fast, they had to cave. Now that it is a thing, removing it would cause even more backlash. It’s like a vice that’s been tightened, balanced or not, it ain’t coming off.

I mention a possible solution in my post “why balance is so hard” or it’s called something like that, I don’t remember, just check my profile.

SadonicShadow

@Jack11803 said:
NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

If someone is willing to quit the game forever simply because they cant make 3 and 4 man lobbies then they were not a player worth keeping and did not care about this game in the first place. I imagine the bulk of SWF is duo's. They are what matter. Not the people that play with a group of friends just to bully the killer.

SadonicShadow

@Jack11803 said:

@SadonicShadow said:
Also change the name of Survive with Friends to Survive with a Friend. > @Jack11803 said:

NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

Your kidding right?

No, when the game first released, there was no SWF, I don’t like it either BTW. They then added that, as they were losing money due to no friends mode really fast, they had to cave. Now that it is a thing, removing it would cause even more backlash. It’s like a vice that’s been tightened, balanced or not, it ain’t coming off.

I mention a possible solution in my post “why balance is so hard” or it’s called something like that, I don’t remember, just check my profile.

Why did you not read my post. I said 3 and 4 man SWF. Not duo.

Jack11803

@SadonicShadow said:

@Jack11803 said:
NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

If someone is willing to quit the game forever simply because they cant make 3 and 4 man lobbies then they were not a player worth keeping and did not care about this game in the first place. I imagine the bulk of SWF is duo's. They are what matter. Not people the people that play with a group of friends just to bully the killer.

Statistically 75# of games are SWF, 60% of SWF is AT LEAST 3 man. Sadly no

SadonicShadow

@Jack11803 said:

@SadonicShadow said:

@Jack11803 said:
NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

If someone is willing to quit the game forever simply because they cant make 3 and 4 man lobbies then they were not a player worth keeping and did not care about this game in the first place. I imagine the bulk of SWF is duo's. They are what matter. Not people the people that play with a group of friends just to bully the killer.

Statistically 75# of games are SWF, 60% of SWF is AT LEAST 3 man. Sadly no

Killer best get some massive buffs in the future then because i am getting sick and tired of facing these animals. They have to many tools, to much information and not enough time for me to deal with them. Game is over in the blink of an eye and if i manage to down one they swarm me like flies. Those survivors that want to queue in large groups could just suck it up and play with their best friend. If they want queue as a 3 or 4 man they can come to the forums and ask someone to host them a KYF lobby or have one of their friends do it.

Jack11803

@SadonicShadow
My suggestion, give solo full SWF like comms, so them survivors can be nerfed without making the solo survival rate even worse than the current 30%

mintchapstick

@SadonicShadow said:

@Jack11803 said:
NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

If someone is willing to quit the game forever simply because they cant make 3 and 4 man lobbies then they were not a player worth keeping and did not care about this game in the first place. I imagine the bulk of SWF is duo's. They are what matter. Not the people that play with a group of friends just to bully the killer.

No, you're right. They don't care about the game.

Because it's a game that they clearly bought to enjoy with two or three of their friends. Most people play the game to have it be a social experience. They care about having fun.

Now this might be hard for you to hear, but: that's why games exist.

SadonicShadow

@mintchapstick said:

@SadonicShadow said:

@Jack11803 said:
NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

If someone is willing to quit the game forever simply because they cant make 3 and 4 man lobbies then they were not a player worth keeping and did not care about this game in the first place. I imagine the bulk of SWF is duo's. They are what matter. Not the people that play with a group of friends just to bully the killer.

Now this might be hard for you to hear, but: that's why games exist.

Thank you for condescending, really i do appreciate it.

mintchapstick

@SadonicShadow said:
Thank you for condescending, really i do appreciate it.

No problem, friend.

Jack11803

@SadonicShadow said:

@mintchapstick said:

@SadonicShadow said:

@Jack11803 said:
NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

If someone is willing to quit the game forever simply because they cant make 3 and 4 man lobbies then they were not a player worth keeping and did not care about this game in the first place. I imagine the bulk of SWF is duo's. They are what matter. Not the people that play with a group of friends just to bully the killer.

Now this might be hard for you to hear, but: that's why games exist.

Thank you for condescending, really i do appreciate it.

SAD TROMBONE

SadonicShadow

@Jack11803 said:

@SadonicShadow said:

@mintchapstick said:

@SadonicShadow said:

@Jack11803 said:
NO, they’d lose to many players and profits

If someone is willing to quit the game forever simply because they cant make 3 and 4 man lobbies then they were not a player worth keeping and did not care about this game in the first place. I imagine the bulk of SWF is duo's. They are what matter. Not the people that play with a group of friends just to bully the killer.

Now this might be hard for you to hear, but: that's why games exist.

Thank you for condescending, really i do appreciate it.

SAD TROMBONE

End me plz

SadonicShadow

@Jack11803 said:
@SadonicShadow
My suggestion, give solo full SWF like comms, so them survivors can be nerfed without making the solo survival rate even worse than the current 30%

Honestly if they want to do anything with it this would be a good start. Give Solo queue optional voice comms and then buff the killers significantly. This would literally destroy the atmosphere BHVR was trying to make with this game but that has been destroyed the moment they introduced SWF anyways. I think at that point something seriously drastic would need to be changed to buff the killer. Either remove pallets so that the chases can end quickly or rework the whole objective system and give killers more time to get something done.

vampire_toothy

I see where you're coming from, but I don't believe they should take steps to remove SWF even if partially by limiting the amount of members allowed to join it. The reality is that not everyone fills up their game to have a 4 man squad with the pure intent to be nothing but toxic, this is a rarity out of all players in total. For me when I play the game as a survivor I often play solo but occasionally when I see a friend or two online then I decide to invite them to have fun with them as that's pretty much the point of games - to have fun. I do agree something should be done so that the killers can be better equipped to handle toxic groups or changes in the game that will continue to penalize toxicity or toxic actions and at the same time changes that help those out who play solo so that all survivors in general are in the same level of ability to cooperate so that effective changes can begin to happen. But in general, I just disagree with the idea of removing 3-4 player SWF groups mostly since it's already been in the game for a long time and most people just want a game they can enjoy with their friends.

SadonicShadow

@vampire_toothy said:
I see where you're coming from, but I don't believe they should take steps to remove SWF even if partially by limiting the amount of members allowed to join it. The reality is that not everyone fills up their game to have a 4 man squad with the pure intent to be nothing but toxic, this is a rarity out of all players in total. For me when I play the game as a survivor I often play solo but occasionally when I see a friend or two online then I decide to invite them to have fun with them as that's pretty much the point of games - to have fun. I do agree something should be done so that the killers can be better equipped to handle toxic groups or changes in the game that will continue to penalize toxicity or toxic actions and at the same time changes that help those out who play solo so that all survivors in general are in the same level of ability to cooperate so that effective changes can begin to happen. But in general, I just disagree with the idea of removing 3-4 player SWF groups mostly since it's already been in the game for a long time and most people just want a game they can enjoy with their friends.

Thank you for your reply and i agree with you. I also use SWF. Its mostly just my girlfriend and i but sometimes we run with 3 and once in a blue moon 4 people. We dont play toxic either and i can agree that its not every group. I just want to see some serious balance changes because even if my group of friends are not aiming to troll the level of information we get for being a squad is unfair to the killer. As a killer i just get fed up with how little power i actually hold in this game. The killer role is supposed to be a position of power. A weakling survivor should not be able to 1v1 a killer in any circumstances yet they can and then when you throw the SWF level coordination into the mix with tryhard survivors you have a killer that is absolutely powerless. Even a god tier nurse can get dumpstered by them. Its sad. I just hope by the end of 2018 we will have a balanced game that will account for SWF because playing killer makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes when i face cancer squads.

Mc_Harty

Removing SWF isn't possible since it'll destroy the growth of the game.

Even adjusting it to where only 2 people could play together will have a negative effect for the games population long-term. Without a populated player-base, this game will take longer to find lobbies, causing even more players to leave.

If anything the devs should adjust it so the killers will be on par with them, but removing it isn't an option.

vampire_toothy

@SadonicShadow said:
Thank you for your reply and i agree with you. I also use SWF. Its mostly just my girlfriend and i but sometimes we run with 3 and once in a blue moon 4 people. We dont play toxic either and i can agree that its not every group. I just want to see some serious balance changes because even if my group of friends are not aiming to troll the level of information we get for being a squad is unfair to the killer. As a killer i just get fed up with how little power i actually hold in this game. The killer role is supposed to be a position of power. A weakling survivor should not be able to 1v1 a killer in any circumstances yet they can and then when you throw the SWF level coordination into the mix with tryhard survivors you have a killer that is absolutely powerless. Even a god tier nurse can get dumpstered by them. Its sad. I just hope by the end of 2018 we will have a balanced game that will account for SWF because playing killer makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes when i face cancer squads.

I completely agree, I think ultimately the game should be in a position where it begins to feel more like a 4v1 and less like one person taking up all your time. The killer should be powerful as this is an asymmetrical game, I feel like teamwork should be encouraged if people want to escape. I feel like the main problem however is the fact that all players in general have been on the same routine every single game with no new objectives to shake it up, nothing in the middle to prevent that early-game momentum either so nowadays we're seeing a game where when you do run into the occasional toxic group they already know everything they need to do and with essentially nothing to really "fear". Perhaps each trial can feel like a unique trial at random to where it breaks the pattern everyone is used to. Thankfully though they're at least looking into some of the more broken aspects of the game such as the vacuum which got removed in the PTB.

Zagrid

Just dodge it when you see it. Ez Pz

SnakeSound222

Unfortunately we can’t. DbD would lose a lot of players and money. More Survivors are in 3-4 man SWF than 2-man SWF or solo. Don’t forget that not everyone wants to be as toxic as possible, and that some people just want to play with their friends. That 10-20k player count that game currently has would experience a big drop. Killers just need some big buffs in order to deal with them. Until that happens, our best defense against them is to just dodge. 

Vulipus13

Sure, let's hand them the kills now. I struggle as is to survive with my friends and killers already control so much of the game. This game is already just becoming a killer simulator. I love this game so please stop buffing the killers into Oblivion.

SadonicShadow

@Vulipus13 said:
Sure, let's hand them the kills now. I struggle as is to survive with my friends and killers already control so much of the game. This game is already just becoming a killer simulator. I love this game so please stop buffing the killers into Oblivion.

This statement is completely and utterly false.

SnakeSound222

Vulipus13 said:

Sure, let's hand them the kills now. I struggle as is to survive with my friends and killers already control so much of the game. This game is already just becoming a killer simulator. I love this game so please stop buffing the killers into Oblivion.

You’re funny. It sounds like you’re not as good as the Killers you face at your rank, so you’re purposefully deranking so you won’t have to face them instead of getting better.