The DS changes have arrived.
Comments
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For the slug you have unbreakable.
So basically you wasted time on a survivor who can just escape your grasp easier then the time you spent on downing him.
That's why DS+UB was so bullshit it doesn't matter what the killer do, it Will always have a negative side so no counterplay.
-Chase the surv with ds? While you are going to waste time chasing the surv who can get up easily.
-fricking ignoring the survivor? Well now you got to waste time to find other survivors.
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DS can still be a strong perk, especially with end game collapse. You have nothing to do at that point, except maybe cleanse the NOED totem if that is in play. You also can save your DS by not hitting the skillcheck.
If you get unhooked at the EGC, you can make it out because of DS if you're tunneled. Add BT protection with it and it can still be a free escape.
But it needed a nerf in mid-game, because it is just b*llsh*t survivors could do a gen for 60 seconds without being afraid. So for me, that warrants the nerf it got. It got abused by survivors and now its finally getting nerfed (but it's still strong with EGC).
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Yeah I can understand that. If I understand correctly, you believe the effect of DS just doesn't fit the anti-tunnel idea behind it so changing the requirement won't fix the problem. Given the points brought up in the OP and such, I can say that sounds reasonable.
Now the question is what to change the effects to. We are talking about 2 complex and controversial subjects, so apologies for the long post. But I'll try to break down the issues on their own in my current view and understanding if you even care to read about it.
On DS becoming a focused second chance perk:
Second chance perks are very volatile right now (and have been for a while) since their are so many of them and they can be stacked freely. I don't think we should go back to OG DS days where each survivor essentially had a extra hook state with deliverance attached (they free themselves). So a much different version of the perk or putting some general restriction on second chance perks similar to exhaustion but match long would be ideal. So you can only have one second chance a game. Then you can balance each one individually and they'd be easier to work with.
On a dedicated anti-tunneling perk:
I don't know what to really purpose at this time, it'd have to be something the survivors essentially have no control over or they would most likely abuse it. Something along the lines of UB before DS got redesigned. A survivor couldn't make a killer slug them so unbreakable was "fine" (potentially a little weak) as a second chance. Its when they got DS and got control to say "you need to slug me or you get punished, but if you do I get off free" that UB+DS became an issue as a lose-lose situation. Potentially we could lump them into the second chance category and put in the limit I previously mentioned, which would again, make them easier to work with as you wouldn't need to consider every other perk like what led to UB + DS.
It'd also have to be something that can detect when the killer is ignoring other survivors just to go after you. But even that is tricky since going for the guy that's on death hook and injured and not the other guy that is healthy (or even injured depending) with 0-1 hooks is just the right play to make and a common situation. Also, as you stated, just stumbling upon the same survivor is a thing.
Creating an anti-tunnel perk that can't be easily abused or is too strong is very difficult since that's directly tied to killers objective and their optimal goal of getting someone out the game asap. Turning the 4v1 into a 3v1 is a very big deal to the killer gameplay. Making a perk to cover that up will still leave core issues.
You can't really just limit the killers power to get someone out the game too hard since that's literally their main objective. Its a fundamental problem with the game on the killer side and hard to really address it without screwing the killer side over for just wanting to win/play well.
If you did, you'd have to do an equivalent to the survivor side to balance things out. The new DS deactivations are at least a good starting point, as far as I see, as that's what it does, both sides can't make progress while its up.
The ideal solution, in my opinion, would require a rework of the hook/death system and then tunneling can be more easily addressed by disassociating it from the objective. But that's not happening. So we'd probably have to settle for half solutions or something unrealistic like getting the whole community on board to purposely play the game sub-optimally on both sides so everyone can have more fun
The new DS is a half solution. Is getting someone out the game asap still optimal? yes. Is this an ideal anti-tunnel? no. But it helps a little without screwing killers too hard (at least that's the current prediction).
I would love a better solution and am open to hearing them out, but its very hard to do with the way the game was fundamentally designed.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
I don't really agree with healing deactivating DS. So you have DS, you got unhooked, the person who unhooks you starts healing you and DS deactivates, the killer comes back and you are screwed. Same even if the unhooked person doesn't try to heal you, you have to spend 60 seconds hurt, without trying to heal, the killer finds you in the last 5 seconds, which results in you getting downed again, not have healed and DS not working because the timer expired. I don't use DS, but for people that do, it's a huge nerf.
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Exactly; specifying its activation to be more tailored to tunneling is helpful (although it can expire while you're being tunneled, and requires you to be unhooked to even think that you're being tunneled), but it's just one stab and then it's done.
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