So when is the nerf to Camping and Tunneling being announced?
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Don’t get be the first one to get caught and if the killer is camping and tunneling do gens for the GG EZ win
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You do not need compensation every time you receive a nerf.
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Your comment couldn't be more biased. Tunneling is a problem in the game, both killers and survivors are in agreement of that.
This right here shows that you agree they can abuse their ability, but you just don't get it:
"If the killer want you dead you better get gud at looping."
The same could have been said about DS and even old before it was nerfed (again). But we all know how that turned out. ;)
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Who is asking for "compensation"?
I am simply bringing up an issue directly tied to what DS was already suppose to be countering that it isn't.
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Oh right, the survivor being camped and tunneled can do gens right from the hook. I forgot how that works!
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DS is losing some power. Yes. However it will still function to counter tunneling. You just won't be able to use it offensively anymore. When ruin got reworked, what did killers get? Nothing. Did Nurse or Billy get any buffs when they were pimp slapped with a cd? No. When Moris got changed did killer get anything to compensate? Nope. When Undying lost some of it's power did killer get something in return? No. Every time they nerf something you don't need a buff to counter act the nerf. DS will still be meta after this change. Unlike some other perks I can mention that were garbage after their changes. Old MoM being the prime example. That had to be changed because it was broken but they could have done a better job. Now it's practically useless. DS will not be useless after this change.
DS is being adjusted so your asking for something else to counter tunneling and camping?
Learn to loop?
Bring BT?
Do gens?
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You can still tunnel with this version of DS.
You can quick-switch and break a chase with someone just go to back to the hook and track that survivor down. Meanwhile the survivor has already had their DS deactivated via the touch of a heal or merely touching a gen. So I am not sure why you think this is actually an "anti-tunnel" perk that will actually stop killers from proxy camping a hook waiting for the right moment to continue to tunnel that same survivor. This change simply saves the killer time because they no longer have to slug.
You apparently didn't read my comment. DS is directly related to Tunneling and Camping due to it's countering feature. Two built-in abilities that can be abused, meanwhile a perk that counters them is being given conditions while they stay the same. That's why I brought it up. Because current DS assures that a killer won't suddenly change their minds about tunneling.
Let me put this to you into perspective. DS will ALWAYS be meta, as long as Camping and Tunneling remain the same. I'll repeat again, DS will ALWAYS be meta as long as Camping and Tunneling remain the same. The threat of those actions are cappable of being abused, so if you can't see the scenarios in which they can (just like you supposedly did with DS) than I don't know if we are playing the same game.
Since you edited your post, I will respond to the rest.
"DS is being adjusted so your asking for something else to counter tunneling and camping?"
"Learn to loop?"
"Bring BT?"
"Do gens?"
Again, you are missing the point. A) I am asking for Tunneling and Camping to be toned down... as in give it some downsides. Think how vaulting windows too many times gets entity blocked...that sort of treatment.
B) I am not asking for these to change because of the DS change, I have been asking for them to change since a long time ago.
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And when is it the killers fault if they tunnel or its the survivors how is the game going to know i.e if a survivor does a unsafe unhook 2 seconds after a killer hooks someone without BT are the killers meant to give that survivor a free pass because the teammate made a bad call or play smart and get someone to 2nd hook stage because off a mistake by YOUR team not the killer. That's a problem i see a lot when i play killer i could be chasing someone and they will run for the unhook 2 things will happen i will down the unhooked person if there is no BT not my fault your teammate led me to you and keep going with chase then hook both off you that's not on me that's on YOUR team again.
If i find you at the start off the match and only chase you and hook you then im tunneling to many times survivors will say the killer is tunneling or camping the hook but yet they have a teammate looping the killer around the hook why would the killer leave the have 2 survivors doing nothing.
What this DS change will bring is survivors learning how to play smarter and killers having to change how they play to and will shake the game up a bit, you get unhooked then tunneled then hear no heartbeat you have to make the choice work on a gen which might be right there or keep moving to another gen to be safe knowing you still have DS to cover you to get to a new gen.
If you really want tunneling and camping to be looked at then get them to look at gen speeds and how fast the game can go, if killers have more time to kill survivors and spread out the hooks then tunneling and camping might drop down, but there will always be people that will tunnel and camp just like you will always have survivors that will do stuff no matter what.
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Well said mate.
That's what this these players are wanting in the long run - not an obscene advantage over killer. I find this game replayable solely because I'm versing a human player(s). I do really want this game to be as balanced as it can be fun.
OP there is a problem with the core game mechanics that allow this behaviour but you cannot polish a turd. There is no real solution and as for being forced to bring in BT/DS etc. Do you think killer players like bringing regression perks or they are feeling forced/obliged to bring regression perks? Maybe the answer is nerf gen speed and camping/tunelling effectiveness idk. The solution isn't simple.
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alternate title:
People aren't playing a game they bought the way I want them to play it and that's simply unfair.
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If tunneling is abusive, then so is looping. I play both sides btw, survivor 60 to 40 and I don't ***ch about tunneling or camping, even if it is annoying👌
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The issue is its behavioural and tactiful. You can nerf them all you want, people will still do it because like 80% of the time its still the best option.l, or because theyre #########
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Nothing needs to be nerfed about camping because it's a valid strategy and does not require any action to be taken.
In the time it takes for a Survivor to go from full health status to dead as a hook victim the Surviving team can drop the existing generators from 5 to 2, and that's assuming not a single generator was completed beforehand.
The only thing I MIGHT suggest is giving any such victim a black pip. But the tactic itself is fine, and already has a counter in the game. The fact that it makes people mad is irrelevant.
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Well at least you admit that it isn't something that people always do because it is a strategy, unlike more than half of these forum members.
I know it isn't an easy thing to nerf, but acknowledgement of the issue is a good way to start a conversation.
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A tactic would imply that it will win you the game no?
Camping doesn't always win you the game, but in many cases it is used by griefers, not by people who actually want to play the game.
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First off, I never once said "unsafe hook" in the example I provided as a response to someone else. Don't mix proxy camping because you saw a potential for an unsafe unhook to going back to hook because you feel like it, when you weren't even around the hook at all.
So if I want tunneling to be looked at I have to get them to look at gen speeds? Oh I didn't know the two were related AT ALL. I have my own concerns about gen speeds, but guess what? That isn't the conversation we are having today nor it is something that the devs have not stated that they are doing nothing towards improving. Don't worry soon you will have a trial warm up feature as a result.
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maybe we should all go play killers and quit trying to survive ;)
An actual good idea. Would help shorten the Survivor queue for me.
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It absolutely can win you the game. I have had many 4Ks on Bubba because the Survivor team came down with a terrible case of Arrogant Altruism and tried to rush the camped hook and got splattered for it. Bubba is in fact the only Killer I camp with because of how insanely effective it is. On any other Killer I get bored and go find someone else to play with.
But with any camper, had they taken the free generators, 3 of them could have won. Which is the correct play.
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You can power all the gens before the killer can tunnel 1 person and by then you'd still be on struggle phase, this applys to every Killer that's not Nurse or Spirit. So in a sense they're actually right juat do the gens.
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Not every killer plays like Bubba and has the potential to win by camping alone.
The point I am making is that stating something is a tactic, means it will win you the game. A lot of killers aren't playing to win the game, they are playing to make that one player to not even have a chance at playing the game. Because the others were forced to hold M1.
Saying something is a 'tactic' is like saying fixing a gen while your DS was up was being used as a 'tactic'... or is that not what the initial DS complaint was?
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Look, you can't have this argument both ways.
Either camping is a legit strategy that can get you kills as a Killer, in which case nothing needs to be done about it...
... or it is a dumb idea that is going to cost him the game, in which case nothing needs to be done about it and camping needs no action taken against it because the Killer is shooting themselves in the foot.
Pick a lane.
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Nobody is arguing that it isn't a strategy, but it isn't always used as a strategy. Because sitting by a hook idling in hopes that some less than intelligent survivor comes to the rescuse doesn't equate it as a tactic.
I did pick a lane. It's called playing both sides. Enough to understand how there is absolutely no downside for Camping and Tunneling someone out of the game unless they actually have perks to counter those "tactics".
I see many many people crying about "the meta will never change".... and they are right. It won't. Not unless survivors have more options outside of perks.
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The downside is literally losing all the generators you are not patrolling because you are having a staredown contest with Jake while he hook wriggles.
Your argument seems to be coming down to the motivation of the camper, which is also irrelevant. It doesn't matter if the Killer is doing it to be mean, grief, to do a daily, or to AFK while they go pee.
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That is not enough of a downside when you are basically saying that survivor doesn't get to play the game.
My argument isn't why they are doing it, it is that they shouldn't be able to in the first place, at least not without the survivor having more options. Period.
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Saying "period" at the end of a statement doesn't give it more value.
"Dying first" is a factor in tons of video games. Sometimes you are just the first one out. SOMEONE has to be first. You are not entitled to an unhook just to get more playtime.
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Saying period is another way of saying that is my stance. Like, I don't care how many excuses you have for Camping and Tunneling, they aren't always a strat. This has been stated so many times and proven via the fact that people lose those matches, but still got that one kill.
So, if you yourself don't have a problem with dying because someone camped you or one of your teammates got camped, then good for you. I want to play the game and also want my teammates to have a chance without a ridiculous cheesy mechanic being the reason they don't. You know... much like how killers wanted to have a chance without DS 'tactics' getting in the way.
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That's the problem you want tunneling looked at but how is the game to know what it is when you don't even know i gave a good example of what you would call tunneling someone unhooking a survivor 2 seconds after you hook them and the killer downing the hooked survivor once again that's on your team, if the killer is no were near the hook then the unhook should be safe as only a few killers can move that quick to get back unless they are still close to the hook.
Chasing a survivor around a hook is not proxy camping why not ask the question why didn't the survivor lead them somewhere else if the survivor left the hook and the killer stayed then yes that's on the killer but if the survivor want's to try and get the save that's on the survivor stop trying to blame killers for survivor mistakes.
If i go for a unhook and the killer starts chasing me i run away from the hook even if it means i take a hit why because it allows someone else to get the unhook without the killer there to get a hit off a survivor mistake.
You want tunneling looked at then anything that might help it is up for conversation be it perks, add ons or adjustments to the game, not i want tunneling nerfed because i can't use it to carry me anymore anything else is off topic sorry that's not how a discussion works, you wan't tunneling nerfed then answer what is tunneling, when is it a survivors mistake and not tunneling, when is the killer really tunneling someone without those answers or even BHVR saying what tunneling truly is and classed as it will never get nerfed sorry to break your dream.
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Camping is not a "mechanic". It's just choosing not to walk away to give the enemy team a free rescue.
You sound like those people that scream about how NOED is bad for the game because it "gives killers kills they did not earn".
I see no difference between being the first one hooked with being the first one to take a bullet through the head in PUBG, or the first one to take the baseball bat in Smash Bros, or any other competitive game where you can be taken out in the first minute. It sucks, but that's the game. You are saying that Survivors somehow DESERVE more than one hook state. Games are not always 100% equitable.
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as soon SFW blocked l will stop tunneling and camping
If this does not change, I don't have to stop doing it
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Yes, it is up to YOU to make it harder for them to go for the same person. Things like Borrowed Time help you with that. It is awesome if you do a safe rescue in the first place. And it is even BETTER if you don't unhook the person and vanish Ninja-like so the returning Killer has really only one option. In other words, you should be fresh and taking that protection hit. The tools to prevent Tunneling already exist. Survivors need to implement them. That is the game; that is YOUR job.
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Freddy shouldn't be able to bypass BT and Hag needs some kind of buffer zone around the hook and especially the basement stairs.
Change my mind
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If I'm getting tunnel I'm gonna loop him until I goes down. I play both side and dealt with both playstyle involving camp and DS. If you are getting tunneled the other can do gens or can use an instant heal for you. You can even run ds or even soul guard if killer decides to slug you.
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Freddy's dream world has no terror radius. Borrow time need a terror radius for it to activate.
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Yes, that counters tunneling and camping. But when you say things like this it completley ignores the reason why so many people hate these playstyles. It's dismissive to just blatantly ignore how frustrating that is for survivors.
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I am okay with being dismissive of absurd things to complain about. Including, but not limited to: tunneling, camping, NOED, and ten other things that get daily nerf threads. Just cause you don't like doesn't mean it should be removed from the game or nerfed. And this is coming from someone that plays more Survivor than Killer. By a lot.
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Camping and tunneling are just ways to play the game. They bought the game so they should be able to play how they want. Nerfing someone's play style makes no sense. Just like if a survivor decides to hide all game then get hatch. It's just a way to play. Is it annoying? Yes very much so. But It's just something you have to deal with.
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When they finish making the Killer AI.
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Camping is the worst of the 2 but especially for the survivor on hook. I kind of feel like survivors on hook should get some sort of buff if they are on hook while killer camps (such as if killer remains in radius of hook you go up a percentage of luck per second killer remains in radius or something like that). Borrowed time exists which is a good counter but there ought to be something for the hooked survivor even if its minor imo
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Just what do you propose to do about camping and tunneling?
These are core parts of gameplay that can be played in a certain way, not some perk that provides a situational buff that can be tweaked.
Also they tried doing paused timers ect on hook but survivors just ran around the hook giving themselves infinite time for hook rescues.
Its a mechanic that can be played in a certain way, like survivors leveraging smaller hit boxes for tighter turns on loops to extend chases, or choosing to split up on gens rather than group up.
There are perks available to counter this and you don't have to take them to do well.
Also DS when paired with UB is basically a minute of invulnerability that often gets used aggressively by survivors to stifle killer momentum, if you are injured and fresh off the hook then jumping straight onto a gen should be a bad idea. But no, as you can leverage your free minute aggressively and that's what needs to change.
Camping works because survivors either aren't coordinated enough to get the save off, or stop doing gens and just get eaten playing around the hook. Smash out gens and then go for a save as a group and its a very poor strategy.
Its not much fun to be the person hanging on the hook during that time, perhaps they could get distraction points and an up-ticking BP reward for the duration that the killer remains within range of the hook. I'm sure this will also be abused but at least there is some benefit to hanging there for 2mins at 5 gens.
In my experience folks will often cry camping and tunneling no matter what you do as killer, so at this point its really just mute.
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You are not forced to bring any type of perks. Yes, bringing those perks really helps against that, but tunneling and camping honestly hurt the killer much more than helps. If I'm getting camped or facecamped and my team decides not to do the objective while they have so much freetime, that's our fault. If the killer tries extremely hard to tunnel me, my team should do the objective while I run them around. A killer doesn't have to bring any perks either. Again, those perks really help, but good killers and good survivors know what is broken and unfair for both sides. I agree camping and tunneling isn't fun to go against, but you can't whine that it makes the game unplayable, because it honestly doesn't. I'm glad DS got nerfed, because it still functions the exact same way but now you can't just do whatever you want and get away with it, its anti tunneling, and now it functions properly.
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Yep, but according to many on here the person on the hook should just suck it up and be glad his/her team were able to fix gens (if barely).
I am currently working on a different thread with some ideas. One of them including a built-in idea for the hooked survivor forced to play the role of sacrificial lamb from the moment they go on first hook.
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Yeah I know thats the general feel which i get. I just want there to kinds be something for the survivor on hook to either do or benefit from. Its terrible having a 20 minute wait for a game to start, you get hooked early on and die from a camping killer. Super frustrating. Im glad my team benefits but I wish it just didn't feel like a waste of time
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Camping and tunneling is just a strategy.
The devs cant nerf a strategy.
Its not a very good strategy but finding out how to counter that strategy is how you beat it.
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Ds still counters REAL tunneling. Not the crap survivors call tunneling when in reality they just played badly
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Camping and Tunneling aren't always used as a strategy. Sorry to break it to you.
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DS was never strictly an anti-tunnel perk, as per the devs comments AND DS still won't be an anti-tunnel perk because you can tunnel someone even when they haven't been hooked.
I've also never seen a killer that stops tunneling because they got hit by DS.
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Much like crouching isn't always used as a strategy for survivors.
Maybe devs should do something about survivors who can't hold their crouch button.
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Except crouching doesn't make gens fix themselves, Camping on the other hand assures the survivor will be forced to go into a 2nd phase and ultimately get you a sacrifice.
Nice try tho. I'm impressed.
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