Three desperately needed changes (Key action, Gen regression stops, Door 99%ing)
Behavior in the interest of objective criticism and strongly needed changes, i have three suggestions to make that could be implemented with relative ease and would STRONGLY impact the "roughest" elements of gameplay currently in the game for both sides. Here are three DESPERATELY needed changes:
- add a 5-10 second action to hatch unlocking, potentially with an additional difficult skillcheck if the killer closed it
- Only stop a generator from regressing if a survivor repairs it for at least the animation time taken to kick it, 0,01 second taps mid-chase are as broken as old hook 99% sabotaging
- Doors constantly being left at 99% completely negates the existence of the Endgame collapse, therefor they should regress slowly while not being held. Additionally i would suggest the ability for a survivor to literally hold the switch up as long as they want, with the ability to then release the door by pressing spacebar. That way someone actually "holding the door" would still be a viable option for the current 99%ing, but at the cost of needing a "maintaining member".
These mechanics are currently the most "gamey" and bad feeling mechanics in the game, keys in particular not being addressed before Moris, DS and even OoO get a rework is just bonkers considering their indirect "buff" in the form of the brown hatch location addons is very much still in the game and very much lacks any form of counterplay at this time.
Comments
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Bonus points if you increase your goals for reducing dedicated server ping, because playing matches on 150ms is just completely impossible, and even at 60ms ping things like this are commonplace, even if the clip is a bit older:
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What are all these post begging for more nerfs?
How easy do you want playing killer to be?
I mean if you have played for a bit, are you losing often? I feel I can 4k quite often, and now DS is almost a hindrance to survivors for killers that rarely tunnel.
No, I suggest you start working on keeping the gates from getting powered. Stop looking for even easier games.
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EGC is not intended to be a killer mechanism, even though it already favors the killer. if you see a door 99%, just open it. The whole point of EGC was so that matches cannot be held hostage by either side. I don't know why there's this sudden desire to make EGC yet another killer tool.
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tell me you're bad at killer without actually telling me you're bad at killer
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1) You got EGC which gives you killers plenty of free kills already...deal with it.
2) Agreed.
3) Endgame collapse is to end hatch standoffs or games that go on too long because of Blendettes and their ilk. You want EGC to start, open the door yourself. Survivors should leave a gatekeeper anyway - if they don't a 99% is the same as a 0% to someone injured with a killer on their heels.
Bonus) Agreed - though I'm pretty sure we're stuck with the current state until DBD reaches end game.
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The devs already tested this, and adding exit gate regression had little effect on SWF and a big impact on solo survivors. So, it's not happening. Solo survivors get screwed enough. The EGC was meant to stop hatch stand-offs and survivors who would hang out stealthing around the map just to make killers miserable even after they opened the gates. It's not meant as a tool to get kills; it's just there to make sure the match ends.
The best fix for keys would be fixing the hatch. Make it so that the hatch only spawns once one survivor is left alive (so it would spawn open) or after all five gens are completed. No more multiple survivors escaping before the last gen is done. No more hatch campers. DCing to give someone the hatch would no longer be so enticing, because no one knows where the hatch is. There's no good reason for the hatch to spawn so early in a match. It's the easiest fix, requires no messing with animations or other likely-to-be-buggy-as-hell crap.
I agree that tapping a gen needs to be fixed, it's an absolutely bull[BAD WORD] mechanic when it takes the killer so much time to kick it and regression is already so minimal,. Survivors being able to tap the gen to stop regression is just an unnecessary kick in the teeth to killers.
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As almost everyone here and the devs have stated, the Endgame Collapse was created specifically to stop stalemates and to continue progression of the game to its...End.
Failing to stop 5 gens from being completed and then failing to catch survivors in the amount of time it takes to reach and open a gate should not be rewarded by a gate regressing.
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I don’t think any of these killer skewed changes are needed. The hatch only spawns at a certain point. Counters gate camping and when gates spawn too close. Keys are fine get gud. Use Franklin if they bother you sooo much. Already a perk that reveals who is near gate and will block the gate if a survivor is hooked when they are open. Naw nothing to see here.
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I don’t think any of those three items need fixing.
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Hatch standoffs are effectively gone because grabs at the hatch are gone. The survivor with the key gets 100% priority and just jumps out, even if you land a downing hit as they are jumping in. Keys are incredibly busted, always have been. The amount of times i get stuck with 1 kill because 3 survivors happily yeet through the hatch (that they picked the location for) just feels absolutely awful.
Yes, i can consistently 3k and 4k if i proxy-patrol, force 1 for 1 trades, and slow gens with slugging. But i find those "effective" playstyles to be INCREDIBLY boring, both to play against, and to play myself.
If you wanna call me "bad" at killer for not using the most powerful (but boring) strategies at my disposal, go ahead. I would like to not be forced to use them. In fact i would like to see the game as a whole move away from making them both as powerful, and as "necessary" as they are right now.
Go ahead and watch some youtube videos of the absolute top killers, in 2018 and now. Let's take Tru3 as an example, because he represents this very well. He himself gave detailed analysis of the weak points of the game design for years and years, until he snapped and decided he'd just play the "optimal" style the devs are promoting. And now he gets quad-kills on the regular while people tons of people slugged for minutes, to ensure they are off of gens. To a point where he's keeping closer track of who has Unbreakable, than who has DS. Is that REALLY the gameplay DbD needs or thrives off of? Cause yeah, i could play like that, i just don't want to.
Don't get me wrong, you bring a key and i'll proxycamp you and force 1 for 1s so i can hopefully get 2 kills before the hatch spawns for my black-pip - i just don't think that level of stress for no possible reward (because lets face it, you NEVER pip in red ranks if 2 people escape through the hatch after 3 gens) is good for the game. There's a reason my killer queue times are under 60 seconds, and my survivor queue times range between ~12 to 20 minutes on average.
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hatch does need a rework and one where the killer can stop the interaction. Anything resembling instant escapes like what we have now is bs hatch should not be instant, safe, with no real counterplay. we already know a key nerf/rework is on it's way and it's not happening now but i hope hatch will look something like this just ignore the whole key rework part just look at how it would be opened.
Honestly gen tapping isn't that much of an issue in fact i hope the devs make it so the new DS allows you to do that. however i wouldn't mind if you had to be on the gen for like 0.25 - 0.5 seconds to stop it's regression as that would make it not usable in a chase as well as still making gens quick to stop there regression.
exit gates are fine this should not happen unless it's part of a perk, the only reason this is a issue is when enough survivors are alive to do the save and body block and at that point you have lost. As said tho i wouldn't mind if this was another end game killer perk as that could be pretty cool if you combine it with say remember me and a few others.
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- add a 5-10 second action to hatch unlocking, potentially with an additional difficult skillcheck if the killer closed it - well i dont want to agree with this kind of nerf. but lets see with devs
- Only stop a generator from regressing if a survivor repairs it for at least the animation time taken to kick it, 0,01 second taps mid-chase are as broken as old hook 99% sabotaging - you "Pop the weasel" for that.
- Doors constantly being left at 99% completely negates the existence of the Endgame collapse, therefor they should regress slowly while not being held. Additionally i would suggest the ability for a survivor to literally hold the switch up as long as they want, with the ability to then release the door by pressing spacebar. That way someone actually "holding the door" would still be a viable option for the current 99%ing, but at the cost of needing a "maintaining member". -killer can open the door actually.
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i see that hatch change a lot making it so it only spawns when one player is left alive but honestly i think this is because of two reasons.
- People used to compare mori's to keys and mori's got a extremely simple nerf ever since then a lot of people have started mentioning this nerf to hatch.
- a lot of players annoyed at hatch and just want to remove the potential for anymore than one survivor escaping by it regardless of how balanced it can become.
Hatch unlike mori's are a base game mechanic that is present in every match but to open it that is rarer and IMO more unfair than old mori's when it happened however that doesn't mean it can't be completely changed along with keys to create a balanced way to open the hatch while allowing the killer to stop it. unlike mori's where most idea's just don't work for various reasons hatch can be changed in so many different ways to create a fair way to escape by it.
As for dc'ing to give hatch that only fixes one issue and that is giving it to another player and that would still work since the survivor can still find the hatch after another survivor dc's. this also still creates the situation at least at the end of the game where all survivors can instantly escape by hatch if it's near say a hooked survivor.
For hatch to become balanced they need to remove it's instant escapes so it takes time to open and alert the killer in some way it's being opened. something like when it is being opened a noise is made that can be heard within 32 meters or theres a lock you have to remove first before you can open the hatch with a key that alerts the killer once removed or hell maybe even both. I also see a lot of players say that a key should nearly always spawn in the trial and imo that is a bad idea as keys opening hatch shouldn't be a nearly every game thing.
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Sadly 70-90 ping is quite normal for console. I shudder to think what our Switch cousins get....
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i SUPPOSEDLY get like 25-30ms on PC, and clips like that still happen to me every single day, it's ridiculous. Either the ping indicator is just outright lying, or more likely the opponents high ping is the actually deciding factor - and it's annoying from both sides. I've literally turned crossplay off because of it (and because your average purple rank console player doesn't know how to M1 a gen)
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There is nothing to address with keys or really anything in your post. Keys are not a problem. They are literally in most situations a backup plan for when everything in the match goes to hell and you literally only have the hatch left to escape. You want to put a 5-10 second unlock timer on the hatch? Are you serious? NO ONE will ever escape through a hatch with the key if they do that. If the killer finds the hatch before you they're going to close it and camp the hell out of it especially if they know you have a key. I like to play a key now and then and guess how often I actually get to use it? About 1 out of every 10 times I play one. Its either deleted with franklins or I die in the match. The VERY few amount of times I was able to actually use my key was very fun and super scary because they often come down to close encounters with the killer and just the experience of running around and looking for it is also intense. PLEASE don't change keys!
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I have a proposed buff to Remember Me that might counter door 99-ing. I once saw this in another thread :
Survivors need to complete a secondary gate opening sequence to open the exit gates. This sequence requires 0/1/2 seconds to complete
Every time you hit the Obsession, gain a token
Each token prolongs said sequence by 4 seconds. You can have a maximum of 2/3/4 tokens
The Obsession opens exit gates 5%/10%/15% slower
Basically you're running from the killer and you've 99'ed the gates. Then the moment it opens, a second progress bar appears and you end up going down. It makes adept Freddy dangerous since if you open the gates too quickly, you might trigger Blood Warden. Also the obsession debuff is so that this perk doesn't encourage tunneling.
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I hear ya very hard to trust the pings we see displayed, both new and old system.
Maybe if they added an M1 button to our controllers it'd help some! ;)
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I do agree a lot of these people make us killer mains look whiney. But I will say, egc is a joke. It was a bandaid on a bullet hole, and over a year later no actual fix has been proposed. If egc is meant to prevent games from being held hostage, then the hatch in general needed to be addressed. The killer and survivor should HAVE to interact in some way for the last person to get out. Having two gates spawn a mile from hatch, making it impossible for the survivor to escape is kinda ridiculous. Equally so, a killer shouldnt be able to reach either gen from one another and make escape literally impossible. The solution seems to be a multi stage system. "hit a button on the door, it starts a timer. When the timer is up, you can hit another". The killer could hit the button to regress to the most recent stage, but no more. So now a survivor needs to loop the killer around that area so they can hit this button 3 or 4 times, giving the opportunity to protect themselves, while allowing the the timer to be long enough that the killer will always be physically capable of reaching it.
Also face camping is so ######### easy to fix. Just make hook progression take 300% the normal time if the killer is within 15 meters. There would be no reason all 5 gens couldnt be done in that time, easy fix. BHVR just sucks at understanding their own game
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I would argue the EGC is fine. It should be a killer sided stage in the game. It prevents survivors from hanging around for too long if they completed all the gennys, and if the killer closed the hatch after 3ks, well the last survivor should have slim odds of escape.
I have no problem with facecamping. Especially during the EGC. Not that I think it is a good strategy in early game or fun to verse. But, I can make a safe hook rescue as I usually run BT. And at EGC all bet are off. They did try the hook progression idea, once. But it was too easily abused.
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