Can we nerf Spine Chill please?
It makes stealth killers barely viable.
A quick fix with minimal effort would be to reduce the range by half or more if the killer is Undetectable.
It shouldn't be that hard.
Edit: Sorry, I was angry writing at the time I wrote this. I had just played Wraith, Pig and Ghostface consecutively and three survivors had Spine Chill in each match.
Edit 2: I left comments down in the comments section that you scroll by when you comment on this post. Please read them before you respond, as to get a better idea of what I meant and why.
Comments
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No luv
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No
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So, there's really a campaign to nerf Spine Chill with all those threads popping up. Holy moly this community gets more surreal by the day.
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no why nerfed something that already fair. this perk is not even common in red ranks
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Unlike what most of the people above have said, I'm in favour of a Spinechill nerf.
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I think a slight nerf would be justified, but not in the way you suggest. If it wouldn´t work vs Undetectable, the perk would lose its purpose.
That being said, it´s too strong against stalking Killers. A range limit of 24m would keep all the benefits alive while removing the need for Killers to never look in the direction they´re moving.
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Stalking killers still having a good chance to catch the survivor with Spine chill.
Right now this perk is fair and helps the survivor to be alert. Especially if he has a hard time figuring out where the killer is, or when to leave the spot before it's too late.
Even in certain situations where the killer can see the survivors auras, the survivor can know how to defend himself, although the survivor only depends on guessing.
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A fair perk in the game needs a nerf...what is this?
Spine chill is perfectly fair, you killers have BBQ and Chilli lmao. Leave it alone.
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UHMM A BIG NO.
for stealth killers, learn to use the rocks to hide. use your skill as a stealth killer and not walk in front of a survivor.
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Admittedly, I was in a state of mild rage when I wrote this, so my suggested nerf is equally insane.
I love stealth killers, and I hate how I have to deal with always having to deal with at least three survivors with Spine Chill every match. It makes killers like Wraith almost almost worthless, with no abilities to his name other than a moderate speed boost with fairly major downsides to using it.
BBQ and Chili is specifically an anti-camp perk. If killers didn't get it, they would have to walk towards a random generator and hope for the best whenever they got a hook. Or facecamp.
The extra BP isn't useful during the trial, and your strategy doesn't need to change all that much if you want to stay hidden from the killer. Just work on generators, hide in a locker, or stay within 40 meters of them (which is outside their terror radius, generally) when the hook a survivor, which isn't hard for you flashlight enthusiasts. I know that last strategy is stupid.
Spine Chill is designed seemingly to at least partially negate the powers of stealth killers. It also speeds pretty much all your actions, at the cost of an admittedly pretty noticeable skillcheck disadvantage.
If you have Spine Chill, Ghostface is barely a problem given that even if he stalks you from far enough away, he's gonna have a really hard time closing the distance in his slowed down stealth mode, especially with your sped up action speed. Wraith would have to bodyblock you into a corner to get a sneak attack. Pig's stealth is basically just screwed over, so she can forget about using ambush dash against anyone who has any reaction time whatsoever. Not sure about Shape, since I haven't played him, but from what I gather, he'll have the same issue as Ghostface.
Stealth killers give up too much for their power to just have it crippled by a single perk that gives another undeniable benefit, even if it has a balancing factor.
As survivor you don't learn an entirely mechanically different character for an ability that is countered easily by a single perk. Every survivor is mechanically the same, but killers go through the process of learning a completely different playstyle with every killer.
My issue is that with the amount of time and effort killers put into learning to maximize the potential of their benefits while minimizing their downsides, it's not exactly fair that a minor ability that any survivor can and should get should so nearly negate it is unthinkable.
You learn a killer specifically for an ability that is difficult to use effectively, but is fun and gives massive benefit, with the tradeoff of a major drawback (unable to attack, slowed down massively, etc.). Spine Chill works the same, giving you massive benefits for a decent tradeoff...
...but with almost no learning curve.
If it required you to do something other than be good at what you're already supposed to be good at just to play survivor, I would be fine with it.
BBQ is similar, but it holds a purpose that isn't purely the benefit of the killer. It allows them to use a less effective, but less toxic tactic than facecamping or slugging without as much of a power tradeoff.
Plus, having to click at the right time a little bit better and chasing down and mindgaming a survivor twice while their friends are generally trying to stop you, and then bringing them to hook that you hope Jake isn't 99ing right now are fairly different skill requirements to utilize a perk.
Hell, with Spine Chill, you don't even need to do the objective to benefit from it. You can just have the killer chase you and let your friends do gens, using the bonus vault speed to bait the killer better or run away faster. Or be a Blendette.
Anyway, my argument was valid to an extent, even if my idea wasn't. I apologize for the high sodium content.
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So we mad at Spine Chill now? Really? 😂
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The forums have too many salty killer mains who want to gut survivor perks after they lost a match. They don't care about balance, the only thing they care about is their 4k tbh.
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As a killer and survivor player I do find spine chill to be a very "noob" perk and really honestly not unbalanced just... ruins the fun. There is so much info in this game for most killers. I really wish spine chill had a much smaller radius for undetected killers, really my only complaint about it these days
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I don't care about the 4k. I can get those one out of three matches.
It's just annoying that the powers of several killers are countered by a single perk that takes minimal effort to use.
If it revealed the killers aura, I would be fine with that. But not just "Someones looking at you!"
The reason I like stealth killers is because I can try to force them to look around and pay attention.
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Shockingly, there are survivors who use stealth as their defense and some survivors prefer to be stealthy than to be in a chase, and spine chill helps them accomplish this, you'd be destroying the way some survivors play just so you can score a free hit or expose them. It can also help survivors dodge a spirit using her power or to otherwise escape a chase.
This has nothing to do with balance and everything to do with nerfing one of the few counters to stealth killers so you can have easier matches.
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Its gotta be active before the terror radius or it will have no picks.
And the stealth killers are not common enough to use it if they nerf it at all
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I’ve said this before in another post that spine chill can obviously be a buzzkill when it comes to stealth but literally 3 out of the four killers that can be stealth heavy are licensed (Myers, Pig, Ghostface). Without spine chill Dbd could potentially give off a pay to win vibe. Without SC survivors are only left with something like premonition. SC gives survivors a heads up against things like Tinkerer as well but if you’re like me you’re trying to work on the sides of gens with the most available sight while constantly moving your camera.
Would I be down for stealth to not be countered by SC? Sure why not but on the bright side it’s typically very easy to tell if someone is using it so that’s one less perk slot available for maybe something like Unbreakable or BT.
There’s something about spine chill that is often overlooked since it doesn’t usually impact the game much but it’s the increased chance at getting a skill check... tons of times SC gamers will hop off a gen knowing you’re on your way and wind up missing a skill check as they let go... if you’re lucky and that happens then you get super ghetto makeshift Surge value lol.
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To me, it is obvious this is what they should do.
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If you want an ability, you should have to directly work for it, at least a little.
Spine Chill isn't OP, it just makes an entire category of killers unfun to play.
If you really need a counter to stealth, looking around is one of them. You shouldn't need the red stain or the terror radius to detect the killer. The survivors basekit essentially gives them permanent undetectable, a wider FoV, and the ability to see the area immediately around them.
The undetectable buff just makes it so that the killer doesn't broadcast their location to you and tell you the direction that they're facing.
You don't need Spine Chill to counter "stealth."
And you don't need it to be stealthy yourself.
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You're gonna get a LOT of survivor mains protesting this. They don't want stealth killers to be able to actually sneak up on them.
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the perk is fine, its not even that reliable against stealth killers because it doesn't tell from where the killer is coming, so it only shine when there are few points the killer can come from. Kindred does a way better job at snitching.
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It looks more like some killer mains don't want survivors to have some sort of counter to things at all, which is the purpose of many perks.
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I'm fine with counters, just not ones that are this strong, especially against more than one killer.
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As many people have said already, it doesn't tell you where the killer is coming from. It's kinda like whispers, the difference is that whispers doesn't have a counter at all while spine chill does.
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No. An easy counter is to approach with your vision at an angle.
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Why should survivors be able to 'counter' an entire killer mechanic? Why bother having stealth killers at all then? Being undetectable to spinechill wouldn't stop survivors from doing gens and looping, so what exactly is the issue other than shitting on the stealth killers?
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Some killers completely ignore game mechanics, like the nurse, so why can't survivors have a PERK that helps them against stealth killers?
Gonna repeat what i said 3 posts above:
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Nurse is the only killer to ignore them and she's a huge complaint amongst killers and survivors, but does not address the issue of Spine chill and stealth killers.
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Spine chill is not an issue, especially because there's a counter, as i have already said.
Survivors don't know where killers are coming from or even if they are targeting them. Not all maps are outdoors either, so survivors can't always look around to see if the killer is coming, and if they can hear them then that's a guaranteed hit.
If Spine chill was part of the base kit i would agree with you, but it's a perk, so it's fine.
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Spine chill is an issue, because of how it counters the stealth aspect of stealth killers. Again, what's the point of having stealth killers if a single perk (a perk without even a cooldown, mind you, and speeds up survivor actions from just having the killer look in their direction).
I cannot agree with you that this perk is fine. You're only looking at it from the point of view of survivors.
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What rank are you playing at where so many people are running Spine Chill to the point where Stealth Killers are unviable because it sure as hell isn't Green -> Red
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That is again ignoring the perk and it's use. The issue is how much information a survivor gains versus killers with stealth mechanics built into their kit. It doesn't matter what rank you play, because the perk is in the game and counters those killers.
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Lmao, it's you that you are only seeing it from the point of view of killers.
Stealth killers with undetectable have:
- No Terror Radius.
- No Red Stain.
- Blocks aura reading perks
Spine chill just lets survivors know the killer is somewhere around, it DOES NOT disable any of those features. It doesn't even tell the direction they are coming from nor how close they are.
Don't forget that survivors have to use one of the 4 perk slots to counter something that they might find or not, that's another reason why i'm saying the perk is fine. PLUS YOU JUST NEED TO LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE TO COUNTER IT, JUST MOVE YOUR CAMERA A BIT FFS LOL.
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Exactly. Spine chill let's survivors know the killer is somewhere around. It completely defeats the purpose of the stealth mechanic of those killers (more than 1 killer, mind you) with just one perk. You act like a stealth killer getting the surprise attack means survivors don't still have their complete arsenal of windows, pallets, and loops at their disposal.
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Just look away when approaching a generator. You already know where they are. Why do you need to be staring directly at them to approach especially if you know they have Spine Chill.
It just sounds like you're being lazy and don't want to adjust your play
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Ok so should we nerf Whispers as well since it tells that a survivor is around even if they are hiding inside a locker? Btw, Whispers doesn't have any counter at all, Spine chill does.
You act like Spine chill leaves stealh killers powerless, which is completely false.
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Killer and survivor roles are completely different. Whispers is a tracking perk, which survivors do not need. It has a wide radius to let a killer know there's a survivor around, but not how many or their exact location. Spine chill let's the survivor know a killer is looking in their direction, which can be used to get away before the killer even arrives, so they can use that information to get away that much faster.
I personally don't mind Whispers being nerfed, as I don't see it as a strong perk to begin with (best used for beginners, in my opinion), but I don't see why survivor's should have a perk that gives them so much information at no cost. I wouldn't mind it so much if simply allowed stealth killers to actually be undetectable by Spine Chill, but that it can completely negate a stealth killer's surprise attack just seems unfair.
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A perk that let's a survivor know a killer is coming ahead of time, potentially avoiding a hit or even a chase, with no cooldown whatsoever, and you call it lazy on the killer's part?
ok.
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Look away. I literally told you how to counter it especially if you know it's there and you still insist that it's overpowered.
Believe it or not kiddo playing the exact same way every game you queue up in is a bad idea and you might have to implement this weird concept called adaptation
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Survivor perks aren't as important as killer perks. Killer perks, in general, can alter an entire trials course easily. Survivor perks effect mostly just that one survivor. If they're expendable enough to use them all on second chances instead of any actual abilities, they're not that valuable.
As I've said numerous times before, and you have repeatedly failed to acknowledge, the Terror Radius and Red Stain don't need to exist. They have no purpose other than to preemptively alert survivors to the killer's location. The fact that you demand a way to detect an ambush predator before they can detect you is.... problematic from a game design standpoint alone.
Most other 4v1 games don't implement a mechanic like this, mainly because, given that they're supposed to be horror, they would rather the team have to look around (suspensefully) for tension instead of semi-uncomfortable noises broadcasting the power role's position and a red spotlight telling you which way they're facing.
On Whispers, it literally just tells you if there are survivors in a certain distance from you or not. It's the only perk in the game (as far as I know) that should have the ability to be downgraded. As you upgrade it, it becomes less and less precise. It doesn't tell you anything other than a rough distance. There could be a four man SWF, all with flashlights, right behind you or a single survivor 40 meters away behind a building and it would give the exact same information: "There is a survivor in x meters of you."
All this does is cut down the time needed to find hiding survivors, which you usually would find anyway, and sightly reduce the time of patrolling gens.
As for the counter... that's not a counter. There are so many ways to know if a killer is coming that your suggestion is basically instantly putting yourself at disadvantage if the survivor has any other ways to detect you (IE, any way that a reasonable game would have you detect them, such as sight, situational awareness and hearing, the first of which survivors already have an advantage at because of the third person view) on the vague inclination that they have a specific perk.
That's so insane it almost makes my suggestion of "play the game like the other team has stealth capabilities" seem, Entity forbid, reasonable.
You also still fail to mention that almost every stealth killer has a power that either is the undetectable buff, or relies heavily on it. I would say the only killer that has any powerful stealth capability is the Wraith, because he can actually go invisible. Ghostface is virtually totally countered by the perk, given that both of his main abilities are countered by this one perk.
Are you serious? "You're being lazy and don't want to adjust your play?" You are literally using a perk designed so that you don't have to take into account that the opposition isn't broadcasting their location and line of sight to you to let you run away before you reasonably should. Or, even better, you are using
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"I don't think that my play style should be counterable, so I want this perk that does that nerfed or removed from the game."
That's all I hear in these threads.
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No
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You are literally using a perk designed so that you don't have to take into account that the opposition isn't broadcasting their location and line of sight to you to let you run away before you reasonably should.
You mean like how Killers are using Ruin + Undying so they don't have to waste time kicking a gen and can apply gen pressure without having to stop what they're doing?
Tell me, how hard is it to look away for a few seconds while you approach a gen?
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It isn't very hard. But there is little to no reason for me to have to.
Since you seem to be deliberately ignoring my primary argument, allow me to make it more visible, as, judging by the nature of my argument and your sheer inability to respond to the actual point, you seem to be unable to see.
THERE ARE VERY FEW OTHER GAMES, INCLUDING IN THIS GENRE (4V1 HORROR), THAT BROADCAST THE LOCATION OF THE POWER ROLE TO THE TEAM. THE REASON IS SIMPLE: THEY DO NOT NEED IT.
IN THE EVENT THAT THE POWER ROLE UTILIZES STEALTH, THE TEAM SHOULD HAVE TO LOOK AROUND FOR THEM, AS OPPOSED TO HEAVILY RELYING ON OBVIOUS, BLATANT AUDIO AND VISUAL CUES THAT HAVE LITTLE TO NO REASON TO BE IN THE GAME.
FURTHERMORE, IF THE POWER ROLE IS SACRIFICING THE ABILITIES THAT COULD BE AVAILABLE TO THEM IF THEY CHOSE A DIFFERENT ABILITY, THUS CREATING AN OPPORTUNITY COST, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE THAT ABILITY, WITH THE CAVEATS THAT ARE ENTAILED WITH CHOOSING SUCH AN ABILITY.
IF THE POWER ROLE HAS AN ABILITY THAT CAN BE CHEAPLY AND EASILY COUNTERED BY AN OPTIONAL ABILITY ON THE TEAM, ESPECIALLY ONE THAT GIVES OTHER BENEFITS, THEN BALANCE IS IMPOSSIBLE BY NATURE. IT IS SHEER INSANITY TO THINK THAT IT IS FINE TO CRIPPLE THE BENEFITS OF AN ABILITY THATS SOLE PURPOSE IS TO REMOVE AN UNUSUALLY STRONG ADVANTAGE WHILE KEEPING THE DISADVANTEGES OF SAID ABILITY, AND IN THIS FORM, IT SHOWS EXTREME FAVORITISM TOWARDS THE TEAM ROLE.
Also, Ruin+Undying exists because the Survivors have a much easier, faster, and simpler task to complete. Giving them an additional task, forcing them to focus on their task, or slowing down the current task, even when combined, is not entirely unreasonable.
The fact that you made such a comparison shows just how little you understood my argument. You essentially have an extremely powerful variant of Whispers in your basekit, along with the ability to see where the killer is looking.
I honestly don't think that the Red Stain and Terror Radius should exist. The fact that you think that you are entitled to them, or other abilities that give such a strong advantage, is a result of how poorly designed game this is. This was meant to be a horror game, if you remember.
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angy
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That's pretty much how I see it as well.
Spine Chill is not a broken or OP perk at all, it's mediocre at best, and perhaps needs a buff. Yet there are people who want to nerf it because they don't want to adjust their playstyle? That's not how balance works.
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"I honestly don't think that the Red Stain and Terror Radius should exist. The fact that you think that you are entitled to them, or other abilities that give such a strong advantage, is a result of how poorly designed game this is. This was meant to be a horror game, if you remember."
Deadspace, Resident Evil, Bioshock, Dying Light, these are all horror games that give the survivors access to really strong equipment, and they're not "running" from danger, they destroy it. Horror has nothing to do with gameplay or balance choices, it has to do with atmosphere which dead by daylight has been improving on with the latest graphic updates. Though I'm not a fan of the new junkyard, too dark for me.
The Red Stain and Terror Radius is about game play, and I've never, ever, seen Killers complain about them in the forums before. Rank 1 Killers know how to play around these things. If you are going to make the case to remove the Red Stain and Terror Radius from the game on the grounds 'survivors aren't entitled to this" then scratch marks and blood trails should go too because killers aren't entitled to these either.
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I have never understood this "It makes stealth killers unviable" nonsense. You can play around Spine Chill as a stealth killer.The biggest issue is for Ghost Face and Myers but Myers can still get his stalk in chase. And actually so can Ghost Face.
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It's a junk perk for noobs who can't handle stealth killers and have no intuition. There's nothing to nerf... it's already trash and a waste of a slot.
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Agree completely, often gives more info than the damn TR with even more range. An incredible pain to outplay and so easy to use, not to mention the incredible number of buffs it gives. As a 4.5k hour GF main, I've learned over time to play around the majority of survivor perks but spine chill's just too much man.
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