Buff the Killer Hook UI
Killers should have the same separated per Survivor hook UI widget as Survivors,
The dev's comment of "the concern we have is this would encourage tunneling a bit too much" is completely illogical considering if a killer is going to tunnel they'll still do exactly what they do now and go back to the hook as soon as the survivor is unhooked and only chase them with no need for the counter.
And for those who's definition of tunneling is off:
Being solely focused off of hook is tunneling.
The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization, which unlike tunneling is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't be frowned upon.
The survivors hook widget lets them more easily prioritize who to give protection hits to, when to exit the trial to avoid blood warden triggered by someone on death hook, etc etc.
In balance the same information should be given to the Killer so they can prioritize.
Comments
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@Peanits could you please give a comment on this?
Not only would this UI change be good quality of life for killers but it would go a ways to declutter the UI.
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if there is a legitimate reason against the points I've made i'd love to hear the rebuttal,
but as of yet the only responses I've seen have said it would encourage tunneling without a good explanation behind it.
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At least r/deadbydaylight seems to mostly agree.
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if a killer sees a survivor dead on hook they will tunnel them
also just count hooks yourself it's not that hard but i don't want a visual indicator saying "hey you should tunnel this guy so one less is in the game".
If they do change it to that i wouldn't care too much anyway but based on the fact that it counts total hooks instead i think the devs agree with that line of thinking above.
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if a killer sees a survivor dead on hook they will tunnel them
either:
A) not all killers tunnel, even if sometimes only to avoid getting hit with decisive strike
B) your definition of tunneling might be off: Being solely focused off of hook is tunneling. The killer hooking you, then hooking someone else, then choosing to chase you over someone that hasn't been hooked isn't tunneling, its just good prioritization, which unlike tunneling is perfectly reasonable and shouldn't be frowned upon.
just count hooks yourself it's not that hard
in that case, Survivors should just remember they're team mates hooks and not have a Visual indicator saying "hey you should take a hit/down for this guy so the killer doesn't get a kill"
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When talking about what players will or will not do you take a look at how out of place it would be to do whatever we are talking about and in this case it is tunneling from seeing a survivor and looking at their hook state to see if they are dead. Now how out of place or even how difficult would it be to make the decision to tunnel that survivor if say you could chase any the four, obviously it is a pretty easy decision to make and nearly all killers will choose to kill the survivor dead on hook.
As for the survivors your right they should know what hook stage the other three are at but that is way more difficult then keeping track as a killer. However using that logic then there is no reason for them to even add a hook counter in the first place but since they did they took the reasonable approach that helps solo players and gives killers a indicator on how well in the match they are doing.
Regardless you can't say players wont tunnel whatever the definition may be and it's clear the devs agree with that line of thinking and i highly doubt they will change their minds.
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A tunnler will always tunnel, it is their nature. Giving them easy access to the info won't make a big difference in the game. If they are really dead-set on tunneling someone they can also just count the hooks themselves.
Yes, there being hook status per Survivor viable by the Killer will encourage people with the tendency to tunnel to do so more often and make it a bit easier but Survivors can play around it because they have the same information. When someone is dead on hook don't go for a risky save on them, and when you do save them don't just leave, stick around to provide some protection.
The main reason a lot of Killer Mains or even Occasional Killers want individual hook status is we don't want to sacrifice anyone, but not always to the point of caring enough to mentally keep track of it when we have so much else to keep track of. I had three games tonight where I got my Hook Count to eight and couldn't remember who it was I hadn't second hooked and in one of them I had already forgotten who I had hooked last out of three people because I'd been in a long chase with someone. That game and one other I found and hooked someone dead-on-hook before second hooking the last person. Neither game did I want to sacrifice anyone but nope, I forgot so sorry for your 5k BP you won't get now because people are worried about giving the [bad word]s more info.
Having the individual hook counts will also help prevent accidental tunneling when people run the same character. One of my games tonight I had two Davids, had hooked but but couldn't remember what his outfit had been. Wound up hooking the same one again but thankfully they had both been together so now I knew what the other one was wearing. Another game I had two Dwights and two Megs, with the Megs both being default with no charms and both with medkits. Literally no way to tell them apart at a glance. I hooked one super early because she got super cocky at a pallet (drop them people!) so later in the game I had already forgotten which position she'd been in. Thankfully I wound up hooking the other Meg first before that one a second time.
Really the reasoning of "It'll make tunneling easier" is just, really weak. Yes, it will, but it will also make it so much easier for the Killer's that just want to two hook everyone do that without putting extra stress on their brains. We're already trying to deal with so much going on and making the game actually fun having one less thing to keep track of will be nice.
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You still seem to be missing my point that a Killer inclined to tunnel is already told the Survivor they are hooking is dead on they're next hook by them beginning to struggle and the "entity summoned" score event.
the addition of a useful hook counter adds no additional information that would be useful to someone tunneling, it would just be good quality of life for those that don't, so they can prioritize targets later in the game and get better value out of powers (like pig's reverse bear traps)
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This. "It'll make tunneling easier" really is a weak excuse.
I don't even think the per Survivor Hook widget would encourage people with the tendency to tunnel to tunnel more often.
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Another point in favor of giving Killers that individual hook status per Survivor is after many games I've either apologized to a Survivor for accidentally sacrificing them, hooking someone twice in a row because I forgot who had been hooked and who hadn't, and slash or complained about not knowing who hadn't been hooked yet and gotten many "Why not look at the U.I.?" type of responses and had to explain that I, as Killer, did not have individual hook status for each Survivor like the Survivors did.
A lot of people already expect the Killer to have it.
Most of the time he Survivors I tell about it say it's dumb for Killer to not have it. Others show apathy about it and only once has anyone said it was the right way it should be.
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That's something i hadn't thought about, seeing 4 survivors with two notches would be much more gratifying than seeing 66% of the total hooks widget full.
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Literally this.
If a killer isn't good enough to keep a general tab on survivors and their hook stages, then they're bad enough to think the "2 out of 3" means "tunnel the ######### out of this pheasant"
The one thing this game does not need is more incentive for shite killers to tunnel
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A Killer inclined to tunnel is already told the Survivor they are hooking is dead on they're next hook by them beginning to struggle and the "entity summoned" score event.
the addition of a useful hook counter adds no additional information that would be useful to someone tunneling, it would just be good quality of life for those that don't, so they can prioritize targets later in the game and get better value out of powers (like pig's reverse bear traps)
And if your going to use remembering hook states is a matter of skill as reasoning, by the same reasoning survivors shouldn't be given that information as if a Survivor isn't good enough keep a general tab on their team mates hook stages they shouldn't be given that information freely that they could use to prevent the killer getting kills by giving protection hits for someone on death hook, exiting the trial to avoid blood warden triggered by someone on death hook, etc.
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feels bad knowing this is likely going to fall on deaf ears with all the other more game breaking stuff going on and how stubborn the Devs have been about feedback on the UI..
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Its not going to be changed and its not even really about tunneling specifically. Giving a killer the information of which hook states the survivors are on more easily allows them to effectively prioritize survivors for killing. This is not really tunneling per se, however it could be viewed as 'condoned tunneling' if the devs do increase the information about individual hooks. In essence, it would punish survivors that had poor starts to a match by increasing the odds they will be targeted at the 2-3 generator mark to relieve pressure on generators. Therefore, allowing it to be a built in part of a killer's general skill ceiling to keep track of which survivors are on death hook might be the most effective compromise.
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Reduced the size of the Killer's hook count widget to be more in line with the other objectives.
Or better yet use the Survivor one as suggested and free up that screen space completely..
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Giving the Survivors the hook state information allows them to effectively prioritize preventing the killer getting kills by body blocking and not wasting time hanging around for a save if the person being hooked is on death hook. winch In essence punishes killers that had poor starts to a match by taking away the momentum they might gain from a potential kill or from someone not getting that head start.
If memory of hook states is going to be lorded as part of a killer's general skill ceiling why shouldn't that also apply to survivors?
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I've referenced this in another post
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