Stop saying "'nerf' Spirit"
Just going to ask a straight forward question to the people who want Spirit "nerfed": are you asking for a buff to compensate? It doesn't sound like you are because of the way you're wording your logic. I feel like a lot of people need to realize balancing things out doesn't always necessarily mean nerfing them. Let me educate a lot of survivor mains that the definition of "nerf" is "to decrease the power of something." Why does Spirit need to be a weaker killer? I main Spirit and agree she needs some tweaks but it's not impossible to keep her as strong as she is while balancing her out.
I've seen many people make proposed changes to Spirit that have so many flaws in it that it makes me feel like they have never played Spirit before. I remember watching this one guy on YouTube that ranted about how "OP" and "easy" Spirit was and proposed that they should bring back the breathing bug along with having a fatigue coming out of phase similar to what Nurse and Legion has. As you expect, I didn't hear about any buffs she can receive to compensate. These two changes would immediately drop Spirit down to B-tier and would honestly make her just as hard as Nurse in some situations. Honestly wouldn't really mind if she was almost as hard as Nurse as long she's still on Nurse's level of strength. Adding a fatigue to Spirit's kit is such a big addition that you'd almost have to make Wakazashi Saya (purple reappearance add on) base kit to balance it out. I've also heard people say Spirit shouldn't be able to hear survivors while phasing. Spirit relies so much on audio that this would about kill her. All survivors need to do against Spirit is to make distance and double back as soon as they see Spirit stand still if she couldn't see or hear them.
I really don't mean to be rude when I say this, but if you don't play Spirit, then your ideas for her probably aren't going to be good, and this applies to every killer. If you do want to brainstorm good ideas, play Spirit more often and you'll get a better understanding of what would be best for her. Also, for the love of Jane Romero's thickness, please stop saying to nerf a killer without proposing something in return. That right there proves to me you're only for one side. Not saying there aren't people that are bias towards the killer side and think that Spirit's flaw in giving the survivors little information is balanced. There are definitely a lot of Spirit players that ruin the reputation of my waifu because of their toxicity and entitlement. We can all ignore those people and the survivor mains that do the same and have a civil discussion about this topic.
EDIT: Ok so I’m not sure why this old thread is getting publicity but let me just say that my views for Spirit have changed quite significantly since I posted this. Back then, I understood that Spirit was an unfair killer and that she needed changes but I was still bias towards her. Just wanted to add this before people wrote comments disagreeing with an irrelevant post that happened almost 4 months ago.
Comments
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They want her dead and buried like hillbilly.
Then they complain about lack of variety at red ranks lol!
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I don't think Hillbilly got nerfed to the ground but he's certainly less appealing than before. You are right about the fact that survivors do want Spirit gutted though.
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Would making Ironwill counter Stridor be a good enough nerf? Then the players who hate her so much can always have an advantage.
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Stridor does negate Iron Will but the thing is, I don't think that the answer to countering a killer should be a perk. Iron Will is very strong against a Spirit without Stridor, but you can't change your perks after you know who the killer is. Spirit needs audio or visual cues that give the survivors more information like the other 21 killers do (well, there's Deathslinger...yeah I'll say 20 killers).
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I feel like if they made her a 115% movement speed and maybe just add an animation to let the survivors know that she is phasing like stretching her arms out like she does when you do phase just to let survivors who are close to her know that she is phasing it would be a good change for her but obviously there will still be people out there who would just complain at this idea and be like "no that's too much" as is the way with entitled survivor mains. I do enjoy spirit and playing against her is also fun because it provides a challenge but I wouldn't want them to make her obsolete to the point where you don't see many people play her .
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Very well. Please reevaluate and adjust Spirit to be closer to the performance level of the average killer. Better?
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Pretty much this.
What?
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I like Spirit. I like her a lot.
I do believe her breathing bug should be back, however. Spirit's main complaint is how non-transparent she is, which is reasonable. I don't think that alone warrants a compensation nerf.
Fatigue, however, is unnecessary. It wouldn't accomplish anything except make her less pleasant to play. I do believe her add-ons should be looked at, as some are just... absurd (i.e MDr-Amulet)
Also, "for the love of Jane Romero's thickness..." I love you for this line. Lmao
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Ppl can say what they want. If you disagree with them than disagree with them.
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It was a joke. You asked people to stop saying nerf Spirit. So I rephrased it.
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It’s a public forum, everyone has the right to speak their mind. With that being said, I believe that the spirit should give feedback for when she enters her phase mode.
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Pretty much anything that gives survivors something to work with would be good, like the breathing bug. I feel like it should be a little more inconsistent but enough for the survivors to play around without having to make guesses. Also, yeah, her add ons need to be looked at. I recently played with the Ring Amulet combo and 4k'ed easily with no perks. If that doesn't prove how broken that combination is, let me just say it was at Red Forest, the biggest map in the game.
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A slight change to make it a tad bit easier to verse spirit is all we’re asking for, that is all.
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Oh wow, I'm an idiot sorry man 🤣
I mean that's fair, but what I'm trying to say is that Spirit doesn't need to be weaker to become more balanced.
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You know, I've never heard anyone propose what I'm about to propose, but what if the Spirit got her own chase music and whenever she phased certain instruments would play or something that would change the music slightly to warn the survivor that she's phasing? I think it would be pretty cool, having to carefully listen to the chase music in order to predict where she might be.
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I also want her to have her own chase music, but I haven't thought of that. Honestly sounds very cool.
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I think you misunderstand the sentiment. Spirit's current position is what's being called for having a nerf, not for Spirit in general being weaker with whatever change.
People are tired of Spirit because she has no counterplay. You cannot counter what you can't see. She knows where you are in phase and is the only killer who can hit you while invisible, and you don't know where she is whatsoever. Any sort of "counterplay" on the survivor's end is a result of luck and guesswork. The one survivor perk, Iron Will, that can mitigate her power is negated by Stridor.
With Nurse, both sides have to guess in many cases. Nurse does not have an ability to know relatively precisely where survivors are when LOS is broken, and even though she is ridiculously strong in the right hands, there is still a balance in terms of counterplay on both sides in that regard when a survivor breaks LOS.
You can't do anything against spirit, and that's Spirit's main strength as of now: that she has no counterplay in chase. Survivors can't do anything. On top of that, to be successful with her does not require a lot of effort either. At least for me when I first tried Spirit in red ranks, and I am awful with her but still got 4ks the majority of my matches with her. People also do not like Deathslinger for similar reasons.
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Funnily enough the best balance change for spirit was a directional sound bug.
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I think the only thing I'd change on her is the Breathing bug... But make an addon the Prayer Beads effect be that you can't hear her while she's phasing.... IDK if that would enough though
Yea survivors want to be able to know everything the killer does or doesn't do... just look at the perks that show killer's aura
They also want the killers to be predictable Spirit isn't so...
Also I noticed that the really Entitled Survivors want all killers to be like Legion or Pig (cause no one complains about those two... unless you play those two or go against one that "breaks the rules")
Stridor was used cause of all the audio bugs the game has. Now it's complained about cause "WAAAA Killer heard me when I was crouching next to them and I died"
Also I noticed how some survivor players act like it's COD and need their Escapes/ Death ratio to be as high as it can go... to prove their "good at the game"
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Your right, a nerf isn’t necessary but extra feedback would be nice.
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No. Please nerf spirit.
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You clearly didn’t read my post. I said that I agree Spirit needs to have some sort of indication on what she’s doing. I just hate it when people ask for her to get nerfed to the ground not acknowledging there’s another side.
Prayer Beads would honestly need a ground up rework imo if that bug was brought back in.
K
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If you don't think spirit needs a nerf you don't know how to play spirit.
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Nerf spirit
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Hillbilly was probably nerfed to raise the visibility on Bubba as both are thematically similar, with billy allowing far more skill expression.
I don't really like the idea of a single perk countering a killer power. See the situation of Doctor and Calm Spirit. It just creates frustration for both sides.
Back on Spirit, she doesn't need a nerf with or without buffs to compensate, she needs counterplay. There are 3 main issues with her at the moment and I'll try to trace a parallel with Nurse detail a few possible solutions:
1- When she starts phasing inside a chasing, there are no intended signs of such. Focus on the intended. The animation reset, shining shards, or hair bug are not reliable signs of her current state. A similar issue happened when she didn't have vault animation and every window was a source of mind games. In the PTB Spirit had an audible phasing sound inside the Terror Radius and that was changed. An example of a powerful and fairer killer power is the Nurse's Blink. When she starts casting, there are visual and audio clues that allow survivors to predict the distance traveled based on the duration and direction based on where she's facing. The survivor may react to that by searching for LOS, doing a 180 and running into her, or even run in circles. The nurse on her end can flicker the direction of the blink, blink downwards to stay in place, go to the last location of the survivor and proceed with a second blink or try to predict. Those clues mediate the killer/survivor interaction, That's also why lots of people don't enjoy playing against Slinger, he can no scope with no reaction time.
2-The seconds is related to her phasing. A spirit that started phasing can gather information through audio clues and visual clues (grass, scratch marks, blood pools if using the addon, etc), and there is little reciprocity due to poor design. The only audible clues a spirit provides of her location is her steps. While I believe that a killer's power is meant to make the killer feel powerful, it's hard to track steps inside a chase for both sides. Heavily invested players that dedicate time to main spirit have to make use of headphones and some use external tools to isolate important sounds. As a player, I don't think it's justifiable to make use of external tools to increase my performance against 1 killer of the rooster. In fact, I don't think those tools should be necessary at all. Her power is to make her feel scary, but also to allow skill expression from both sides. I dunno how to solve this issue, but if other sounds such as chase music and environmental effects were dramatically reduced for the spirit and everyone close so we could use the existing stepping sounds without resorting to external hardware and software, it would be a good start.
3-IMO, her power is low risk and high reward. The moment a Spirit loses track of a survivor while phasing, she can interrupt and keep the remaining charges. Some Spirit players just use her power as small bursts of speed and there is no sense of commitment to power. If you manage to dodge a nurse blink, she is fatigued and has to restore blink charges. If you manage to dodge a Spirit out of the phasing lunge, she can do it again in a few seconds. A possible solution would be making her phasing last the full duration once started and full recharge.
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Killers like Spirit and Nurse are as unfair as genrushing bully squads. The solution is to nerf them, not "rebalance." Sometimes BS really is just BS.
I like Spirit. I like phasing characters in games. I like the concept of misdirection and deception. But I think she's not only unfair, but ridiculously strong. She needs both a nerf and a rework to make her power less unfair and oppressive.
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I’m new to dbd but looking through the update history, it certainly appears to be one of those accursed games where the community gets every little thing that rubs them the wrong way nerfed into the ground, again and again, without ever learning to actually play or counter things. Games with communities like this seldom last. I’m sort of surprised dbd is still going given how chronic the problem seems to be. How very disheartening.
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I mostly play survivor but I’m starting to consider mailing killer tbh. Survivors strike me as excessively coddled. Killers already have to deal with all of these absurd “unspoken” (lol) rules, whilst facing premades who’re literally using third party programs to bypass the intended mechanics of the game (cheating.) Adding to that experience unnecessary nerfs of every little thing that hurts a survivors fee-fees, it’s shaping up to be quite the underdog situation. I always support the underdog and look down on the spoilt brat lol.
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It's very clear you didn't read my post
We need like killers like Nurse and Spirit. Killers need to be able to have control of the chase. Survivors are already in control against 90% of the killer roster which isn't fair because it's a 4v1.
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I read your post. Evidently you didn't read mine clearly as I literally addressed your general point in the first sentence of my post.
I simply said that's not the general sentiment of people asking for a Spirit nerf. They want her to be counterable, not for her to be "nerfed to the ground".
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The problem with spirit and nurse is that she makes chases boring for survivors. If there is literally no power to the survivors it would become m1 generator simulator and that would suck. It should be balanced in a way to make chases fun.
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No, we don't. Easily 4king the significant majority of teams is not okay and is not justified by the minority of players that play in full parties with all meta perks and slam gens.
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Just going to ask a straight forward question to the people who want Spirit "nerfed":Well, that's just survivor mains being survivor mains, complaining about stuff they have never played and poorly understand by saying there's no counterplay is basically what they do on a daily basis.
Fooling a Spirit is easier than fooling a Nurse, and the ability of the spirit is definitely weaker than nurse's.
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There's a lack of killers because many of the killers are just awful to play. Along comes a killer who actually feels fun and feels fair to play and survivors want them nerfed.
They wanted Nurse nerfed and they got it. Then spirit and she was nerfed. Then hillbilly. Then pyramid. Now they want freddy nerfed and it's confirmed they're getting it. So then it will be back to spirit who has already been nerfed. It wont stop, people will just continue to want the top tier killers nerfed and at the same time they complain about queue times. Maybe because playing Trapper or Wraith doesn't feel fun against your toxic tbagging swf with 16 second chances? just a thought
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the 1 nerf i think would work is adding back the breathing bug, didnt occur enough to drop her from top tier to med tier IMO. The fatigue bit is too much though
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And in the mean time, the worst killers in the game get HUTE buffs like a piss bottle that serves no purpose and a reduction of reload time, or an invisibilty from so far away it really doesnt matter anyway coupled with a slight out of stealth lunge reach. /S
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Spirit should receive a net nerf though. Why does there need to be compensation? Oh because behaviour won't look at it again for another year I see.
From my spirit games I would say the stand still trick needs to be removed. Some addons need another look at. There needs be no compensation while you move almost double speed of the survivor invisible and the survivor having to guess throughout the power.
Honestly I think once the stand still trick is gone spirit is fine. The collision nerf was already the biggest issue gone. Plenty worse to play against right now imo
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Why are most survivors so potato?
I play spirit from time to time and so many fall for the standing still trick.
Good survivors dont fall for it. This is consistent. I think maybe once have I been baited by it in 2 years.....once.
play spirit and you know when shes faking it and when she isnt. Its hard to explain in words but you gotta look at your surrounds, your position, her position, and your brain just automatically knows. Its like a sixth sense.
Again everytime I go against good survivors it never works on them.
hint: unless this is a pro league spirit, 99% of the time her first fake will always be a genuine fake phase. All spirit players use this to see how you react and learn what type of player you are.
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Spirit is the epitome of a balanced killer, just like Hillbilly was before his nerf. While she is in the top 2 killers (Nurse and Spirit), she's not better than Nurse.
And let me put it this way for the Nurse vs Spirit argument:
Nurse is better than Spirit assuming that a competent Nurse player has her. Her simple yet insanely strong ability to teleport, even through walls, makes her the best killer in the game. It's just that she's so hard to learn. That's why people say "I beat Nurse all the time!" Yeah, baby Nurses and intermediate Nurses, not veteran/PC Nurses otherwise you'd complain about her all the time. Spin and double back all you want, because a good Nurse doesn't care about any of that and will hit you anyway.
Spirit has a more complex power but it is mostly about moving fast and hearing where survivors are. If they have Iron Will, you're screwed. If they know how to play around with the sounds, you're screwed. She's not as skilless and uncounterable as people make her sound. The standing still mindgame needs to be fixed, because it is actually no-skill just like the old window vault faking.
So Nurse is the stronger killer, but Spirit is more accessible aka easier to pick up. A good Spirit player is better than a bad Nurse, but a good Nurse is better than any Spirit player.
But bottom line: Spirit is one of those few killers that actually has control in the chase, which survivors don't like. Nurse has control as well, but Spirit can somewhat be looped whereas Nurse cannot be looped at all. Spirit is balanced.
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Yes I do want the survivors to hear where Spirit is it’s just the fatigue coming out of phase was a stupid idea.
Spirit is definitely more skillful than people claim. Standing still getting free hits obviously is brain dead, but everything else about Spirit does have a learning curve. I would have to disagree about Spirit being balanced. I think if she gave survivors a vague tell on what she’s doing then she’ll be balanced.
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Omg finally someone who has knowledge of the game!
Yeah Nurse takes a big dump on spirit. Spirit is hindered by walls and pallets, Nurse isnt. If you went against a bot that could lock onto you with precision, you could last a little while against a Spirit bot because dropping a pallet or vaulting into a building would force her to take a long walk around - and her power is limited in duration. A Nurse bot that never missed would just hit you everytime. Consider the new Gideon map. Even spirit cant tackle all those god pallets lmao only Nurse stands a chance
I do think that Stridor can be nasty on Spirit but then she relies on sound, cant see, and with so many survivors running iron will....what can ya do?
I agree with your point about the core issue. Its all about control of the chase. Survivors have had it for so long and they dont want to give it up. Spirit, Nurse, Pyramid, Deathslinger - all are despised for this reason. People try to pretend they never had an issue with nurse but thats rose-tinted glasses because she used to be one of the most disconnected against killers. I understand where survivors are coming from, the older m1 killers are much more fun to play aginst but I play both sides and its much more fun playing a killer with control in a chase than eating safe pallet after safe pallet after safe pallet and getting tbagged.
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At this point its just getting really tiring seeing nerf spirit every week. If survivor mains really took the time to play killer and understand how the ability works then maybe they'd have a better chance of countering spirit. No one really complained about spirit until nurse was nerfed. But if you want counters I suggest double backing, not sitting under pallets, fake the window vaults, dropping the pallet early, using iron will (which also helps looping all killers) and if you're one of those survivors that stays at the same spot or walks straight her when she's standing still rather than going to another pallet idk what to tell you. But if they do nerf her its just gonna make que times worse I already have to wait at least 10mins for a survivor game while killer is instant.
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I swear to god, nothing is funnier than than people being absolutely offended on Spirit's behalf, indignantly slamming their cup of apple juice on the counter and unironically saying
"You just don't get it."
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Please stop replying to me holy fk.
It's a guess. Not sixth sense. Don't kid yourself lmao!
If you don't walk towards the standing still spirit they can still just phase anyway! The reason it should change is because there is no que for either scenario whatsoever. Please stop posting your incredibly killer biased opinions - it's disgusting.
Exactly very tiring to read through all this waffle for people who want an edge on players who play better than them.
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just let them be, they can argue whatever is it, sooner or later BHVR will nerf spirit that for sure, same as Freddy previously,
Many killer defending him in the end BHVR will set them straight.
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I do fine vs spirit. If you play spirit enough you learn to predict them. God forbid you learn your opponent rather than just endlessly spam pallets and op window loops
its ironic you say people want an edge on players better than them, when you’re advocating for nerfing killers that control the chase, and indirectly advocating for killers where survivors control the chase. Just play an m1 killer right? Where survivors have the edge over players that are better than them
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That's why the best killer content creators struggle so much on m1 killers. Get a grip. You can play well on killers that aren't guaranteed hits.
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Sounds like you only play SWF. If you played solo Q, your opinion would be way different. Only underdog in this game is solo Q and low tier killers that have been forgotten almost since they were added. Not spirit.
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Nah I play solo and view SWF as literally cheating as they use third party applications (discord) to bypass the intended mechanics of the game. Just being on voice comms gives everyone like 20 something perks for free lol. Imho of all things are equal skill-wise, survivors have an advantage even as solo queue. This is mainly because the game is designed to compensate for bad survivors, so if there are no bad survivors, it equals out to an advantage.
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If solo Q has an advantage is why killer kill rates 70%?
The game is actually designed to punish bad survivors, why do you think killers dominate at rank 15-20?
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