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Stop saying "'nerf' Spirit"
Comments
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What change could cripple spirit in her current form? I honestly can’t think of one. Like nurse got a cooldown but is still top tier. We have to keep in mind spirit has already been nerfed and she went from S tier to S tier
She won’t get crippled but I hope she gets balanced
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Like I said in the post that someone proposed that breathing bug along with fatigue coming out of phase. Those two are pretty big changes that could make her disorienting to play along with possibly being a B or C tier killer that is just as hard as Nurse.
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Along as the fatigue was like 2 seconds those sound great to me👍 She would be a solid A tier killer I’d say
Look at the chase based killers for a second
Nurse: fatigue and cooldown
Billy: overheat and cooldown on missed chainsaw
huntress: reload and cooldown on hatchet throws
slinger: Cooldown and reload
oni: has to charge power and hefty cooldown for missed swing
And then there’s spirit with no kind of fatigue on a missed phase and a non existent cooldown so long as you use her power in short bursts like you should. I hope that clears it up a bit
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What seems to be the main problem that people complain about is her "Stand Still Mindgame" My suggestion would be to make her shards glow bright. If you are within something like 16m of her you can see the shards glow, if you're out of that range you won't be able to see it. A bit like freddy. That way if you're 20m you won't see her glow and would still be in terror radius range so won't hear wind noises. But you would have a considerable distance as your advantage to keep running/block line of sight in case she is faking it. It would stop the standing still mindgame cause it's mainly used in close range. You still won't know where she is really, but you would at least be aware she is phasing.
No this wouldn't kill spirit imo cause she could still do mindgames like phase, and stand still etc etc.
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"I dont need to know what I'm talking about, I just like to talk out of my ass"
Survivor POV 101.
You realize that this game is 98% about guessing the opponent move right?
And just as the DeathSlinger, she get a LOT of counter play, you just need to know how to mindgame her, which is pretty easy.
Hell, she is even hard countered by one of the most commonly used and reliably good perk in the game, ie Iron Will.
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You see thing is I do know what I’m talking about. If you know what you’re talking about then how do you counter a spirit?
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Really?
Aight then : What do the spirit do?
She can stop, then move faster while being stealth and blind, but she can still hear and see scratch marks.
What can you do to make that skill inefficient?
Use the scratchmarks efficiently to throw her off and do some backtrack to have her keep following a lead you aren't on anymore.
What about the sound? She'll only be able to hear you well if you stay on the same spot long enough (ie if you are just waiting for her to come at you rather than bait her as previously described).
In a loop you can play with a pallet or a window since she can't go trough them in spirit form.
How isn't that enough counter play for yah? Let me guess would you prefer for her skill to be extremely telegraphied and with a delay so you can very easily side step it like a huntress hatchet?
This. It's always boil down to this. Surivor think THEY should always be the one dictacting how a chase should unfold, and the killer should just act as a giant kite with some QTE that require them to dodge something very obvious.
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While they can work they are inconsistent due to the fact survivors make noise doing everything. If you walk you make footsteps move grass and breathe. Even worse when running which you’ll need to do scratch mark jukes but the spins going to come out of phase the second scratch marks stop so that’s not going to work. All of this is well enough to see how little counterplay she has even while healthy and this comes from a lot of experience fighting against decent to great spirits
Window vaults are silent as far as I know but vaulting a pallet causes the survivor to grunt. This makes this ineffective.
All of this is assuming you aren’t injured because if you are then good luck. I hope that shows her lack of counterplay and I’m not even mentioning stridor.
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You can still of course mind game against all killers, but the better your knowledge of the killer's position the less the guess work. Against Spirit, depending on the patch and ambient noise, the only tell you might get is footsteps when she's very close. That's about it; other than that it's a pure guess for the survivor while the killer can simply use audio and scratches to easily locate the survivor. The survivor can't even tell when she's using her power unless she starts using it from far away and then approaches them with it; in a chase they have no idea.
Perks aren't a proper counter to any killer because survivors don't know what killer they're facing, and therefore can't proactively choose a perk. You can't just run Spine Chill in case it's a Deathslinger, Iron Will in case it's a Spirit, Calm Spirit in case it's a Doctor, OoO in case it's a Trapper, etc. Eventually you just run out of perk slots. Stridor also trumps Iron Will, so Iron Will is only a strong perk against her if she allows it to be. Plus, even if survivors did know the killer in advance, it's kind of silly to have to lean heavily on a perk to counter a killer's power; you should be able to do that through normal gameplay, and that's the case for most of the killers in the game.
Deathslinger has even less counterplay than Spirit in the 1v1 in large part because zoning is BS, but I'm not even going to open that can of worms here. Spirit actually doesn't bother me as much as Deathslinger because most people don't play her very well; she's sort of like Nurse in that way, but obviously with a lower skill floor. She's also already had some or her more annoying features removed, namely old prayer beads and her old lack of vault animation, so she feels better to play against than she used to. She's still insanely powerful, though.
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oh how i love people saying about audio on spirit. stay in spot got breathing, running makes your breath more audible.
with good headphones spirit can accurately know your position. what mind games is that ? spirit can use 2 of her senses : 1. view which is scratchmark 2. sound of survivor dont say iron will counter since stridor exist
survivor : 1. 6th senses of mind game
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I mean I guess that’s fair, but a fatigue is such a big change that you’d need to give her buffs to compensate. The difference between Spirit and those other killers is that they can actually see where the survivors are. Spirit can’t. Yes she can hear their grunts of pain (only when injured) but what if they have Iron Will? Catching survivors with Iron Will unless they’re the most predictable thing ever would be impossible to catch if they can hear Spirit and if she has a fatigue. You might say to just equip Stridor but just like how it isn’t fair for a survivor to equip a specific perk to counter a 1 out of 22 killer isn’t fair, it’s also not fair for a killer to equip a perk just to counter a survivor perk that the survivors might not even have. Iron Will is going to need a rework to compensate Spirit having a fatigue and directional breathing noises. Also Spirit will probably need to have her post-phase lunge buffed a little.
Please understand that this isn’t me trying to argue that Spirit is a fair and balanced killer. This is me feeling concerned for her because I really want her to be balanced, but I also don’t want her gutted. I do feel like she is going to be touched some time this year and I’m just worried the devs are going to do something to Spirit that makes her disorienting to play and no longer fun. Let’s be honest, the devs have gotten that reputation from this last update. I really really love Spirit, she’s not only my favorite DBD character but is probably my favorite character in any game. If she got gutted to the point where she isn’t fun to play anymore, I would honestly be heartbroken and I really don’t want to main another killer.
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I do understand your concern but I wouldn’t worry. The only killer who got an unnecessary nerf is probably billy so I don’t believe the same would happen to spirit.
I don’t want spirit gutted either I jus want a fun killer to fight against. I’ll never sigh when I figure out I’m fighting a billy oni blight doctor trapper or Myers because all of them are really fun to fight against.
I understand your attachment to spirit I feel the same about clown if they removed him I would be heartbroken too but you have to understand that spirit needs to be changed in order for it to be fair for both sides
But even if spirit got gutted if you still enjoyed her there shouldn’t be a problem should there?
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You clearly have never played spirit against decent survivors.
You point is like saying that you need your 5 sens to loop and mind game a killer, the whole point of playing against the spirit is to enticipate what they'll do instead of running scared waiting for the spirit to get the drop on you, for some reasons survivors have decided that since they can't see her, they are instantly totally powerless and can't use their brains anymore.
Also, just stop asking for fatigue mechanics, it's one of the most garbage design piece of DbD that makes killers just extremely annoying to play.
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I'd rather keep the desync issue than play against more than one spirit a day. The 'mind games' involving her are uninteresting at best. Spirit robs too much player agency from a survivor, which is why she's so good at tournaments, because she can put people in situations where they can't ever win and without that much effort.
But she doesn't need to be gutted, that's absolutely stupid. Make her power have a better tell and balance it with someone extra for her to play with. Her addons are over-tuned though, those deserve to be gutted to a degree.
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Idk man. Legion, Doctor and Spirit are the three killers I have the most hours with. Spirit was the character that first took me to rank 1 killer. And when I play as her, I absolutely obliterate the survs. Even with weak perks and not the strongest add-ons. When I got to rank 1, I didn't even have BBQ nor PGTW which were sort of mandatory back then. I feel that I shouldn't have been able to do such a thing, given that yeah I'm not absolute trash as Spirit, but I'm also not /that/ good. All it takes it's pressing M2, approaching the survivor at the speed of light and bam, showing up outta nowhere and downing them. Most times you don't even need to do the idle mindgame, but if you add that, it's the cherry on top...
I don't know how I would fix her. Maybe she needs a nerf. Maybe she needs a rework. I don't think her giving more feedback about what she's doing to the survivors is different to getting a nerf -now she gives little to no feedback, so if she gave the survivors more feedback that would be a nerf since the survivors would have more info and thus could counterplay her more. More feedback = nerf, is what I'm saying, idk why people put these things separately like they are any different, there are other sorts of nerfs that she could get that wouldn't be feedback related (like a bigger power cooldown), but providing more feedback to survs is just a type of nerf. And maybe that's ok! Maybe a nerf is what she needs. I'm all in for the more feedback train, because as a survivor it's all guessing games, and that is absolutely no fun given how the Spirit has way more info to guess from than the survivor has. It's similar to what happens with Slinger, except that Slinger is not invisible, does not move at mach 3 speed and can't also use their power to cross the entire map very quickly (not the best use of the Spirit's power, but it can come in handy when you see them far away with BBQ and want to stop that gen from being done asap).
The fatigue idea sounds like a bit too much to me. But the bug thingy that happened back then, which made her "aaaaaaa" sounds audible when she was phasing and gave the survivors a fair sense of direction seemed fair to me. You can still play around that as the Spirit, you can still use your power to approach the survivor quickly, and it wouldn't be all guessing games for them. I don't think this being implemented would gut her. The idea of her giving some sort of cue when she's phasing, so that the stand still mindgame is gone, doesn't seem unfair to me either. These days I always assume the Spirit is just standing still and try to play around that, but if the Spirit realizes that you /know/ she's not phasing, she will proceed to phase and catch you before you get anywhere else. Easily if she's running Stridor and/or you don't have Iron Will.
I don't think a nerf should get any compensations. That's why it's a nerf. If every nerf got something to compensate it, then the thing being nerfed would be as strong as it used to be, and the nerf would be pointless. People asking for a nerf don't ask for some sort of compensation because they want the thing in question to be weaker, not to be the same as it is now. Applies to anything you can imagine: Spirit, Freddy, SWF, keys, OoO, etc. The real question is, does that thing NEED a nerf? Well, for the Spirit, I think she does. Probably in the form of more feedback for survivors. Maybe in some other way. And I'm saying all of this as someone who plays lots of Spirit, my Spirit hours are only behind Legion's and maybe Doctor's since I've decided to main him recently but have played him for a lot of hours already. So I'm not speaking out of an entitled survivor's main ass when I say she is sort of unfair to play against.
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"I hate it, but it doesn't need to be gutter, noooh, just remove the whole point of her power and make sure she turns into yet another QTE boss that I can easily side step with the usual looping method and it will be fine"
K
Yaknow what's uninteresting? Running loop, getting palette thrown on the face and deal with windows.
How about, for ONCE, you survivors have to deal with the short end of the stick and get into the position of the person reacting rather than the one dictating the chase?
It's funny how the narative ALWAYS slide from "ther's no counter" to "there's not enough counter" to "I just don't like dealing with her".
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I have been saying Spirit does need a change. I do feel like she’s getting touched some time this year. Hopefully she does and the devs can actually be competent for once.
If she got knocked down to B tier, she’ll still be my killer. Whether or not a killer is strong isn’t what concerns me. What I don’t want to happen is for her to feel awful to play. I still want to do well with her. I’m asking for buffs to compensate not to keep her S tier, but to keep her as the same killer I laid my eyes on the first time I played her. It’s hard to explain but I’ll just sum it up by saying as long as she’s still fun to play and I can still do well with her, I’ll be fine with it. Just please don’t gut her devs.
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The same people saying "nerf spirit" and "spirit takes no skill" are the same people that sprint burst to the safest loop on the map over and over and over again and run every second chance perk they can carry.
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these people are only used to running in circles around loops and dropping pallets and spamming CTRL. They can't actually predict more complex opponents.
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Couldn't have put it better myself.
What they really mean by "no counter play" is actually "the usual counterplay don't work".
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IMO she's pretty unfun to play against even though I know spirit mains love to play her. I don't think you could fix the unfun part of her without a complete rework of her power, but that doesn't mean you can't change some of her abilities. I would love to see many of her add-ons nerfed. Specifically the duration ones and maybe the speed ones. The duration ones give her an EXTREMELY long power along with a super-fast recharge (which is a bug). The speed addons aren't as much of a problem, but the green one is a little ridiculous when paired with a duration addon. Also, the mother-daughter ring+yakuyoke needs to be nerfed hard just like the iridescent head needs to be nerfed. One last thing I would like to see changed is to give survivors an actual indication of when she's using her power. I think we all agree that the standstill mind game is the stupidest thing ever.
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Yeah some of her add ons are so dumb. Ring+Amulet is broken. I think Amulet is fine by itself, I just think the Ring needs the nerf.
Stand still “mind game” is the only thing I don’t have fun with her. If they weakened that, it wouldn’t affect me that much.
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Except there are many killers that can deal with these things without robbing survivors of their agency. Pyramid head. Blight. Clown. Freddy. Deathslinger. New Bubba. Even Twins via Victor. And of course, Nurse. All have tells, and yet these killers can easily hold the power role in chases, some more than others. They also have tells and counters. Many of these killers can obliterate the average DBD group in public matches when used by someone with decent game sense.
There is no genuine counter to Spirit during these stand still mindgames, which are the main issue people have. Whereas other killers with strong anti-loop have tells, she does not. May as well just stand still and let her down you at that point.
I think OP is quite reasonable with what they say about Spirit and how some people are ridiculous in the outcry for a hard nerf. You, on the other hand, are unreasonable. There's always one like you to make these threads come off way worse than they are.
"How about, for ONCE, you survivors have to deal with the short end of the stick and get into the position of the person reacting rather than the one dictating the chase?"
Ah there it is. Not only is this polarizing with the 'you survivors' when you clearly have no idea where I stand in terms of my favoured form of gameplay, but you make it a us vs them thing, despite the fact that many killer mains find Spirit to be a shitshow. Big examples being ZubatLEL and ScottJund. That's not to say their word is gospel, but high experience killer players say these things for a reason.
The fact that you think you consistently have the short stick in chases with killers outside of Spirit (and I guess Nurse and Freddy) says more about your ineptitude in the killer role. I and many others can 4k consistently in red ranks with killers like Demogorgon that don't even have efficient anti-loop. Am I just God tier? Or are you just exaggerating and making playing killer sound like a tragic case of inevitable victimhood? The only thing that screws killers are maps and map RNG, which also applies to survivors mind you (I'd say killers have a harder time OVERALL, but it's still a general problem).
She has no counter in loops with the specific mindgame people find super irritating. That's why people want at least a small tell like EVERY OTHER STRONG KILLER HAS IN THEIR ARSENAL.
Enjoy your circlejerk with other like-minded people that see survivors as mindless drones that only want to pallet loop all day.
Spirit doesn't need to be gutted. Her power needs some tweaks. Her addons need revisions. I hate facing her, but she's not BROKEN.
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If survivors wasn't nerfed so much, including perks and maps, spirit wouldn't need a nerf. But a lot of killers need nerfed. Spirit, Freddy, Huntress need them the most. When you are good at these killers you hardly ever lose unless you try to.
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Pretty much this. As much as I love Spirit, she really needs tweaks to be more fair to go against. My fun is just as important as the fun of survivors (the ones that aren’t toxic). The breathing bug along with a few minor buffs would be good. Honestly if it did knock Spirit down to B tier, as long as I can still do well with her and she’s still fun to play, I would be completely fine with it if it means the survivors will have a fun and interactive battle as well.
I understand you trying to put people in their place, but no matter how hard you or I try to have a reasonable debate with them, they’ll still try to let their ego get in the way of what is actually logical. No need to waste your time with them tbh. As I said in the post, there are Spirit players that are toxic and entitled and want everything to go their way. It’s kind of a shame because it really ruins the reputation of my killer.
Also yeah, her add ons are busted and need nerfs, like the MDR.
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I want her to have some sort of counter play and take more skill.
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There is no genuine counter to Spirit during these stand still mindgamesAnd this is where you, and everyone whining about spirit is wrong.
The funny part is that in your post you mention Nurse, Deathslinger and Freddy, while making the EXACT same empty argument a lot of other people do about how these particular killers "don't have any counters".
ScottJundOFC COURSE you'd be from the Scott school of "nurse has no counter".
Scott is one of the most notorious example of "survivor main, but guys I'm totally not" syndrome out there. Hell, the simple fact that you really think he is a killer main is pretty hilarious ngl.
That's not to say their word is gospel,Yes you just use them as such, thus making a nice appeal to authority
but high experience killer players say these things for a reason.Meanwhile a lot of other "killer main" (real one) like tru3 will tell you otherwise.
The fact that you think you consistently have the short stick in chases with killers outside of Spirit (and I guess Nurse and Freddy) says more about your ineptitude in the killer role.Funny that you are calling me out of assuming things, to then do exactly that in the same breath while adding a pretty lame attempt at personal insult on top of that, thus showing how actually insecure you are about your position.
Let me tell you, I dont have any problem farming the useless double peeps at red rank, and I do it with what most would call trash tier killers, so you can kindly shove you "u bad" up your.
Then to get about about who is actually dictating a chase, if you REALLY think survivors aren't the one in the driving seats, then I guess, it must says a lot about your ineptitude in the survivor role then? Funny how that works right?
What is even funnier is even peple like Scoot "I'm not a survivor main" will tell you straight up that yes, the survivor is the one directing the chase, while the killer is the one well... chasing.
And... I'll be honest I lost any interest in continuing reading your prety empty drivel that is just a long roundabout way to repeat "NAH SHE DOESN'T HAVE COUNTER PLAY NAH" while shoving your fingers as deep as you can in your hears. Keep on riding train, I'll be over there in the real world where she's good but is just a killer you have to actually anticipate rather than just react to.
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Loool
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Yeah, the OP is right, it's really not worth continuing.
Have a good one. The community would be a nicer place if you toned down on the abrasive nature of your replies, especially toward people stating rather tame opinions about something.
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One thing that can't be taken away from survivor mains is their outstanding lack of self awarness, thanks for demosntrating that point once again by trying to call others out for their "abrasive nature of their reply" after you litterally just insulted me out of nowhere.
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I admire keeping the bait going for so long, but you really do need to tone it down a little.
People're starting to catch on.
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Nerf spirit
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despite billy wich got an unwanted nerf (to his base kit) spirit does need a nerf since she doesnt have realistic counterplay especuially because most of them use Stridor, being a mologue of her downing and you dont even know what happened, because nothing you can do to avoid it (unless she is deaf) iron will doesnt counter her because as i already said most people run stridor, and stridor wont get nerfed because makes no sense to nerf that perk but we can nerf spirit to make it decently enjoyable to go against her. same happens with nurse, those 2 killers are the best in teh game for a reason, if the player is decent the survivor cant realistically do much around it in the chase wich makes them go down without even being able to understand why. (well you can, u get outplayed without being able to do anything about it because thats how their powers work) how? very simple first of all get rid of her non phasing thing mindgame ( staying still and get outplayed) that needs to go, unless u have spinechill or flashlight u cant really tell since sometimes she uses skins wich covers her glasses and still most time u wont notice anyway... and that needs 0 compensation, that shouldnt exist to begin with, her animation or power animation could change so literally people can see what she is doing and act around it. there is no killer in the game that doesnt show is using his/her power, everyone makes a noise, an animation or whatever, she is the only one that doesnt give u NOTHING, and shouldnt be like that.
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see the discrepancy between this 2 post ? 1 asking to juke and run while other asking to play in the mindgame.
okay this will be my last reply : any action that involves running will make your breath louder. breath louder will make spirit able to pinpoint your exact location with good headphone.
fake juke will not effective anymore. iron will can cancel the effect but again stridor make it useless
also thx for the bait wont reply to you anymore.
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I just had a match where a "low rank" spirit just bodied 3 people in less than 2 minutes, I just walked out and let the person kill me... not worth the stress.
Nerf Spirit.
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>see the discrepancy between this 2 post ? 1 asking to juke and run while other asking to play in the mindgame.
You... you realize that "mindgame" includes the way you'll juke and run, right? Or did you thougt it would mean setting up a chess board and do a quick game with the killer?
>fake juke will not effective anymore
Yup, see, right there? It's the exact problem all the survivors whining about X killers (doesnt matter which, it's alway the EXACT same argument) always have : "I can't do [insert the obvious solution that somehow, others manage to use consistently against that killer] so this means it's totally impossible."
Aight, I guess that explains why the spirit is the top tier killer used by everyone, including in "competitive" where nothing can ever be done against her. I guess, you just said it "fake juke will not effecive anymore" (whatever that's supposed to mean).
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Still some guess work when using her power , a survivor can walk away from the loop stay still, move to the other side or flash her after flashing her if shes not using her power , you can run/walk away and go to another loop or hide.
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Its a guessing game for both sides, need to figure out how the spirit your playing against plays. Maybe flash her if you think shes fake phasing and go hide or something.
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Most Spirit use Stridor, there is no guessing for Spirit, she has scratch mark, breathing. Survivor has nothing to react.
Question is: why did you search so deep in the forum?
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Oh great this thread is back. This was back in February and my views for Spirit have changed since then.
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It is not a guessing game for Spirit because she has your moans, grass movements, and scratch marks, while survivors have literally nothing.
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People don't want Spirit nerfed, they want to have some counterplay or audio/visual cue so they can do something against her. Right now it feels like she is just playing and you are little AI character in a game that's going to get hit anyway. (Regarding Spirit that knows how to play the game ofc, don't account for baby killers please)
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The ultimate redemption arc.
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That was a fast change of mind
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The thing people really hate about spirit imo is how easy she is to play compared to her power level. Almost every game ever made soft locks the most powerful stuff behind a big skill lock. If you dont have the skill, you do worse than usual. This is why people got mad at freddy and instasaw billy, you could play them with your brain turned off and still do much more than someone playing clown with years and years upon experience tryharding. This is also why people don't complain about nurse as much. They simply dont see god nurses enough to be mad at nurse. Meanwhile you can quite literally play spirit blindfolded or without using your power and just standing still, or even just playing m1 killer if you get lucky with passive phasing addons. Also, knowing WHEN spirit is phasing doesn't help you at all since if you see her phasing at a pallet, it is still a mindgame between her phasing in place or going to your side. Survivors should get to know WHERE she is phasing, thats why people liked the sound bug and want it back.
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There still is some counterplay for fake phasing with flashlights maybe make them more readily available for killers like spirit. Give a sound cue for when she phases.
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What I would love is for her to be reworked to have fun gameplay for both sides, but still be S tier or at least A tier.
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Honest appraisal: Spirit is really good - I think that the people who declare her absolutely insurmountable (and I do sometimes as well, though usually in the form of jokes) are being a BIT exaggerative, but there's no doubt that she's very tricky to play against. I'm of the opinion that she be nerfed, yes, but nothing extreme. A simple thing such as longer cooldown, a better tell, slower speed, the inability to hear footsteps, basically any one of those things could help to level the playing field a lot.
It's like the new Wraith. Super speed, super lunge, the ability to see auras, the ability to uncloak silently, it's like "okay, maybe pump the brakes a little bit". He doesn't need to be neutered, but a little more balancing doesn't seem out of the question.
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Yes mate ☝️ I was also a Rin apologist for a while, now I'm committed to them nerfing her so I can play her without feeling like a dick
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This is awesome! She gets her own music and if gived a cue to react. Screw the breathing bug.
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