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Stop saying "'nerf' Spirit"
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I loved the bug where u were able to hear spirit when she was phasing, so if that could be back, I would be fine with it. Apart from that, I think her add-ons need a good look at they r extremely good and have no downside (the only I would consider that as a downside would be Mother-Daughter ring, but when u r that fast u don't really need scratch marks that much and paring it with Father's Glasses compensates for it). Also Stridor shouldn't counter Iron Will, but at the same time Iron Will shouldn't counter Stridor, and a killer shouldn't be balanced around perks, so I don't really know what can be done about spirit unless they reword some aspects, but I kinda don't want her ruined, idk
Hmm, I do fine against baby spirits even when I don't have iron will, or against average spirits if I have iron will because I play her from time to time and know what actually throws me off sometimes, but I do know that against a good spirit with good headphones there's nothing u can do, even if u have iron will and there's no Stridor.
She can hear u breathe if ure healthy, if ure injured and with iron will, she can hear your footsteps, she can hear/see grass move(but if u go through grass that's kinda of the survivor to blame anyway) she can hear u slow vault a pallet/window/enter a locker, or fast vault it with quick and quiet (if u play spirit and can't hear it, all u need to do is look about 90° degrees away from the survivor when ure starting the phase, which will end chase and then there will be no music)
The only thing she can't hear is when u stand still, which she will be able to know because there's literally no other option. I understand that against a good killer they deserve the extremely dominant role but that shouldn't turn into "yeah nothing u can do", and it shouldn't be somewhat "easy" to accomplish compared to nurse for example, who is almost as strong (stronger actually but u get it) and takes tons of skill/practice.
Some survivors complain just because they feel like it, same for killers, but then theres people who complain because they want balance and no need to shame on that, if this community stopped with the bias and "us VS them" it would be just so much better, but it seems like an impossible task for the majority
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I don't understand people who keep asking for animation to let you know when she's phasing its stupid, the whole idea of spirit was to mess with your head ( is she there or isn't she ) i don't even play spirit because im deaf in one ear can't even use her to the fullest even if i tried, i don't believe she should have any tell-tell sign when she's phasing within her TR of course it make her more exciting to go against you have to think)
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Nerf spirthis already isn't a very serious thread since someone actually dropped the "most balanced killer in the game" in reference to spirit of all things, but I'll try
Why does spirit need a trade-off if she gets nerfed? Is it necessary that she in particular has to be in the top 3? Her last round of nerfs didn't give any tradeoffs (although they mostly targeted the wrong things). I could get buffing something in return if you nerfed something like slinger's insta-ADC because just doing that would make him complete dog faeces (off-topic: the profanity filter is stupid) but what does spirit need? She lacks nothing.
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Because even at red ranks most survivors are sort of bad at the game. If the game didn’t compensate, survivors would have no chance and the community would be even more inflammatory then it already is lol. The game needs to take into account that just one bad survivor can screw over their team, so it needs to alleviate this somewhat via various mechanics, thus when there’s actually a team where everyone is skilled, these compensations turn into advantages.
Last time I looked most killers were in the low to mid 50% but maybe that’s changed, it was a while ago, but it was only even that high because matchmaking is borked + most survivors even at red rank make many mistakes IMHO.
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then they'll just say "plz cripple the spirits legs"
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never played them so idk nerf spirit?
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You just asked in another thread if tunneling is bannable because you're a new player... why should I listen to your opinion about a game you are new at?
edit: typo
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Aha way to totally misrepresent what I asked as a cheap way out of the discussion.
I responded directly to a mod who said along the lines of “targeting another player multiple times is a bannable offence” and I asked for clarification on a very specific scenario whereby I’m defending a hook from multiple survivors who are trying to unhook directly in my face without borrowed time. Had absolutely nothing to do with camping.
Also just because I’m a new player doesn’t mean I don’t understand the game mechanics or haven’t been watching the very best players in the world for over 2 years.
It’s a discussion and there’s no reason to take a disagreement personally lol. But by all means be salty.
I’ll be the bigger man and say we agree to disagree. You think killers have the advantage. I think survivors have the advantage. You’ve given no real argument to support your position other than “at low ranks killers win more” and I’ve already answered that with a rebuttal which you’ve ignored.
Moving on.
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Watching the "best players in the world" doesn't mean you understand the game or are good at it.
You're the one talking out of your arse, doesn't mean I'm salty for not falling into it.
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Actually watching the best players in the world for 2 years, observing their gameplay and taking in their insights, irrefutably lends a great understanding to not only the mechanics of the game, but the balance, development process, and general ecosystem, regardless of how long you’ve been playing. It’s a computer game. It’s really not that complex.
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You saying "best players" just in itself shows the lack of understanding. Just because someone streams and is good at the game doesnt mean they are the "best players"
Also calling someone a "salty dog" wont make me think you're any more informed about the game.
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You dont need to play a killer to know that they are unbalanced. She is the only killer in the game that gives no feedback when she is using her power.
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Its not thinking its pure guess work. First you have to guess if she is using her power, then if you think she is in her power you then have to guess from which direction she is coming and then once you think you know where she is coming from you then have to try and counter her. That is too much guess work to do in a few seconds causing you to lose the chase and even if you guess everything correctly you dont even gain much as the spirit wont lose much distance on you
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Technically neither does trapper/hag unless your looking directly at them and hag can also do the idle fake out at pallets.
Michael and GF stalk powers don't give any feedback unless they reach specific thresholds and Michael has a fake afk into tombstone meme for another idle fakeout.
So no the spirit isn't the only killer with little to no feedback, Heck as stated above she isn't the only one with the idle fakeout.
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U can easily estimate how much stalked u r when playing against GF and same goes for Myers, u can even tell which add-ons Myers has by the time it takes to stalk to get to tier3. If there's an afk Myers/GF and u don't know if he is stalking u or not, just walk into him and see if there's any collision.
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Ghost Face, If he is stalking it does give feedback looking at him gives you and audio cue that you are revealing him,if he leaning on a corner you know he is stalking you if he is crouching he is probably going to try to stalk you.
Myers, When Myers gets into a new tier there is an audio cue, when he is stalking he moves slower and if he is standing still at a loop he is going to be stalking you there is only one reason he wouldnt and that is if he has run out of power gain from you
Hag and Trapper, Both cant use their power at loops because it would just waste their time they have to wait until they are not near any survivors to use their power. When placing traps there is audio to give them away if you are close enough to them. Their traps are visible and have to rely on leading survivors to where their traps are.
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You’re full of assumptions. You’ve no idea who I watch and they’re indeed some of the best players in the game. Judging from our little interaction together I’d hazard a guess that I’m more familiar with the mechanics and balance than you are lol.
This going round in circles with you is becoming quite boring now. You’ve nothing productive to add to the discussion. I’ve already made my argument and you’ve not refuted it, presumably because you can’t.
For someone who cares so little for my opinion you sure seem to be quoting me a lot rather than dropping it and telling someone else they’re talking out of their ass instead. I’m sure they’ll appreciate your highly productive contribution.
This random guy you’ve never spoken to before disagrees with you on something. The horror!!!
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That first paragraph is nonsense. When people say they want her nerfed, or more counterplay, what they are literally saying is that they want more chances to win by reducing the power of the spirit relative to where it is now.
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Your argument is that spirit is fine because you watch the "best players in the world" on twitch.
I'm quoting you because no one else who is new to the game says spirit is fine. If you really watch so many streamers, you'd also know what their opinion on spirit is.
I doubt someone who is new to the game and asks people if tunneling is a bannable offense knows more about me, someone who has been playing for years and is pass 4k hours.
If you add something constructive to the discussion, which "killer hard survivor ez" is not, sure, I'll happily keep on talking about it.
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"Killers like Spirit and Nurse" Well I hope you're mentioning hard Killers to master which in returns gives you a good reward? Because yes, you're right, we need and we already have some, but Spirit is not one of them.
Don't need to say anything more, everyone knows she is really easy to play but the "easy" depends of how much knowledge you have in the game. She is easy to play because you can just phase and get a hit, it's simple. There's no looping involved like other Killers, this is what makes her strong but also very easy to play with.
I was a main Spirit and after I stopped playing with her and went to "normal" Killers because I was bored playing with her, the next 2 days I had struggles on my matches (as expected), because I wasn't used to "normal" chases anymore.
After playing Spirit for 1 week maybe you can get very good with her, while other Killer requires more effort, 2-3 weeks or even a whole month dedicated or even more. (Considering you play everyday and a good amount of hours)
For me, Spirit is near the Deathslinger level, they have built-in a forcefield passive of mindgame all the time.
As for your post, they really should do some changes, on my opinion she has too much going on for her. You said that people want Spirit nerfed in some way without giving her something to compensate, but how can a Killer receive something to compensate when she even doesn't have a penalty besides being a 4.4 and a power cooldown(which evey Killer has to be honest)?
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I'll stop hating on spirit once they give her a little more feedback on her phasing.
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Man you’re hilarious, but tedious. I’m done wasting my time with you now. You say I’m “full of #########” yet you’re literally just talking ######### the entire time, making up nonsense, moaning, with no constructive input whatsoever.
That was not the argument I made as you’re well aware, but you need to try to misrepresent what I say as some kind of weak ass attempt to discredit my opinion because you can’t handle the fact that some random guy on the internet disagrees with you lol. It’s actually sort of pathetic. You could just accept the fact that we disagree like I did and move on, but you insist on being a salty little dog about it, constantly quoting me with your asinine drivel lol.
Like how you’ve misrepresent the question I asked the mod twice in a row now, as some kind of desperate red herring. I’ve already corrected you on that, but seeing as your reading comprehension is somewhat lacking, I’ll oblige.
It had nothing to do with tunnelling and the fact you think the scenario I gave to the dev constitutes as tunnelling proves without a shadow of a doubt that you really don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You’re one of those survivors who expects the killer to just let you win despite your terrible misplays.
I asked the mod if Killing someone when their entire team come to unhook in your face before you even have a chance to leave the tile, with no borrowed time, no DS, twice in a row before the guy who got screwed by their team dies, is bannable, because the dev said killing the same person multiple times is bannable. I gave them a specific scenario where the logical tactic is to take advantage of the enemy teams huge misplay, to secure yourself a win, and asked for clarification as to whether or not it constitutes as a bannable offence as the mods initial comment was vague.
By all means get in my notifications again and I’ll let you have the last word. You’re obviously desperate for it mate. Grow thicker skin and learn to accept the fact that not everybody shares the same opinion, and your opinion is not gospel.
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Spirit has to go because she doesn't leave room for counterplay. I don't care if you main her since day one, this killer is not fair in the slightest. She has to go.
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i’m a bit late to this and have already made my opinion clear but I will say it again.
Spirit is simply not healthy for the game in her current state. As @grunt7554 has said she has no feedback on whether she is using her power or not. This is a huge problem as all of the other 21 killers give feedback.
“But her shards glow” It is true on her default skin but if they are running the Greek or schoolgirl set good luck knowing.
Your only way to know if she’s phasing is spine chill or her footsteps which are very difficult to hear and barely help you when she’s moving 170ish % speed.
So knowing all this what is the counter to her? I’m still trying to find ways to counter a decent spirit but there really isn’t any.
@TheGannMan i know you love spirit and that’s fine but don’t try to defend a very unfun frankly broken killer
All this without mentioning stridor either but I have a whole thread about that
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Nerf spirit, plz
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Not a fan of guessing games.
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Nah, just nerf Spirit already.
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I would've rather had her buried than Billy, he was strong but perfectly fine. You could read him, react to him, outplay him and win games
Spirit is the DEFINITION of uninteractivity, her best "mind game" is literally standing still, a "Did you bring spine chill or are you getting hit for free from invisibility". Force that kind of 50:50 often enough while not doing the same version every time to be predictable and you are literally getting free downs at the cost of zero interaction.
Granted, not enough to win matches against 4 minute gen rush squads, but enough to be utterly annoying to die against and hilariously powerful when proxycamping. Not to even say anything about that ludicrous lunge range she gets out of her complete invisibility for free.
There's a reason Wraith can't just swing from his cloaked state, and even THAT would be more interactive than Spirit is. She needs an outright rework, not a nerf.
I don't mind losing to killers who play extremely well and earn their hits by outplaying me, especially nurses who have to master a movement system on quite literally another level (although they are currently getting a bit boosted by the busted hitboxes)
The combination of Spirit's bonus lunge range from complete invisibility and the hitboxes tho? Makes me wanna commit uninstall xD
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As a Spirit main (and yes, survivor main), she needs a major rework. I can get 4Ks easy on her with no perks or addons 3/4 games. If a survivor knows what they are doing, even when I run perks/addons- I can lose them, they can lose me. Most survivors don't play smart though, they constantly fast vault to give their location, jump in and out of lockers to get your attention. They realize she can follow scratch marks most of the time and just 'W' key to victory... until they can't. I say this as someone who has seen their friends do it and who has also done some of this.
Also.. Stridor? It makes me cringe when I see people run this, use your eyes and common thought process to figure out where a survivor went.
She doesn't need a nerf. Balance needs to happen, not nerfs. The balance also should not revolve around one perk (iron will). They need to seriously look at her addons and rework them. Also I am not sure what this 'breathing' bug is, unless you are talking about the bug where I down someone and suddenly they stop making noise like they have Iron Will laying on the ground? If you're trying to crouch right beside a killer, it's no wonder they found you Stridor or not, Iron Will or not.
I appreciate everyone who is trying to think up ways to try to help balance her instead of just killing the character in general. Her power is unique and I appreciate it, it's nice not going against the same predictable killers as a survivor. As a killer, I do wish they made it so that Spirit shimmered a little like Wraith does when she is phasing across the map, in intervals at least so survivors can feel better.
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So a inmobile spirit that abrubtly stops moving is no feedback? Just because you cant tell if its the husk or not?
Damn, i wonder how these kinda survivors would react if one were to point out Jigsawboxes having no visual indicators neither.
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Anyone saying Spirit takes no skill is an idiot, they act like survivor takes so much skill yet you can literally just hold forwards on some maps and waste a large amount of the killers time. You'll see this on maps like lerys or mothers dwelling. I've seen ranks 1 just hold W, press E for distance and then tbag like they're amazing. Sometimes survivors takes literally no skill. Sure there are some skilled survivors but you dont need that skill to win.
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Now even the DEVS are scummy enough to nerf spirit again, whether you like it or not, spirit does require some skill and so do survivors. Stop complain about spirit and start question "Is there a counter".
Iron will, off the record, lightweight, Dance with me, Poised, Exhaustion perks, Generators done and other things are counters lol just get good.
(The devs has messed with the sound to nerf spirit but that isn't enough is it).
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Literally the worst comparison but nice try lmao
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Survivor gameplay and the skill required or not isn't relevant to a discussion about spirit, and always bringing up something from the other side when talking about an issue on one side makes actually discussing anything.
I wouldn't say she takes no skill whatsoever, I would say that after a few games with her 4ks will be the norm. Even more so once you put good perks and green add-ons or higher on her (which the vast majority of spirits do)
I went for some spirit games recently bc I hadn't played her in months and she is admittedly very fun. I'd also had a few drinks. I also hadn't leveled her up steam so I was going in with tier 1 sloppy butcher and tier 1 rancor at first And 4k, 4k, 3k, 4k etc against survivors that would've required a -lot- more effort if I was playing one of mains. (I'm a fairly mediocre killer in general too, although I have my moments ig)
Like I said she's fun to play and I don't even mind playing against her that much (Freddy, slinger and twins are all weaker but more obnoxious imo) but none of that makes her not ridiculous.
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I’ve don’t need to play spirit to understand they are broken
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Just got back online after waking up two hours ago and got like 42 notifications for this post. I don’t feel like replying to everyone because it will take way too long. It amazes me how stubborn and selfish people can get. I’m even over here agreeing that she needs a balance change. I’m all for survivors having just as much fun as I do. If the devs can give her a change that makes her fair and fun to go against without killing her and keeping her just as fun as she is now, then I would love that.
To the people that say Spirit shouldn’t get any buffs to compensate: you are basically admitting what I said. You don’t care about the killer side and only care about the fun of the survivor side. Some even admitted that Spirit should be nerfed to the ground because she’s “unfair.” Again, I agree but how about we fix her without killing her. That’s not fair for me or any other Spirit player that isn’t toxic and just want to have fun.
Stop acting like just bringing back the breathing bug is gonna be enough to fix Spirit without gutting her. Survivors were even saying during that time period that running the Spirit around was easy. There needs to be buffs to balance it out, like faster movement speed or longer post-phase lunge. This is exactly what I mean about if you don’t play Spirit just don’t try to come up with ideas. Play her for yourself to get a better understanding of what would be best for her. Stop acting like she has no downsides whatsoever.
I’ve come to realization that maybe y’all don’t deserve a Spirit balance change. If y’all are really this selfish to think Spirit should get nerfed to the ground with nothing in return then Spirit should honestly stay the way she is. I’m tired of getting attacked for playing my favorite character in the game. I’ve been begging for a Spirit balance change for a long time now but all I need to do is play Spirit to get attacked.
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They want a minimum of counterplay in the chase instead of basically having to guess at best. That is not too much to ask for. As with Deathslinger, her strength isn't the main issue, although unlike him she is definitely strong enough to stand a nerf. The real issue is the lack of feedback she gives to survivors.
Hillbilly is also far from dead and buried - no need to be dramatic. He's still comfortably above average and his base kit is very similar to what it was before. Overheating is usually only a concern if you're running engravings.
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A lot of survivors admit that they want Spirit nerfed to the ground. That’s what we’re trying to say. I’m fine with her giving counterplay but why does she need major nerfs?
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Since when am I trying to “defend” her? You’re not reading my post clear enough because I did say she needs a balance change because I’m not like the majority of the Spirit main community that doesn’t have empathy for the survivor side.
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Some do, for sure, but I'm agreeing with your point that her strength isn't the biggest issue.
With that said, I do think she could stand a nerf strictly because she's a top tier killer. In an ideal world, Behaviour would continue to nerf killers that are abnormally strong and buff killers that are abnormally weak until they're all closer to mid tier. Then they can buff or nerf the killer side as a whole based on current performance. Game balance is much easier to achieve when the gap between the strongest and weakest killers is at its smallest, so until that gap shrinks quite a lot I'd support balance changes aimed at closing that gap.
It's a very similar argument to why I feel Behavior needs to buff solo queue. Much like the gap in strength between the strongest and weakest killers, the information gap between SWF and solo makes it tricky to balance the game. SWF is going nowhere, nor should it if we care about the game's success, and penalizing even the most casual players for playing with their friends is a non-starter. So, that leaves us with giving more information to solo queue to reduce the information gap with SWF. That's why I really like the hook state counter on the new HUD; solos can't just ask their buddy if they're on death hook and it's pretty tricky as a solo player to keep track of hook states for all teammates. The new HUD therefore helps solos out a lot without giving much of a boost to SWF. Those sorts of changes are ones I hope we see more of going forward. I'm thinking about things like a totem counter on the HUD, more perk buff and debuff icons on the HUD (e.g. a Deliverance buff icon for all survivors if they have a teammate on the hook with Deliverance active), more buffs to information perks and/or nerfs to non-information perks, more in-game gestures beyond just beckon and point to facilitate communication, etc.
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survivors want to control the chase plain and simple. They want Spirit to be a party clown like all the other m1 killers, basically a looney toons cartoon where the big dumb killer chases after you and you just slam pallet after pallet on his head and sprint away tbagging. They like the feeling of knowing as long as they're on the other side of the loop you can't hit them and you need them to make a mistake before you're allowed a hit. Even then they have DH for a third chance lol
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A well educated opinion we can surely trust someone who hasn't played spirit to inform us of how broken she is
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I mean I guess that’s fair. I’m just saying that giving Spirit a nerf isn’t exactly easy because if BHVR isn’t careful about it (which we all know their reputation for messing thing up at this point) then it could hurt Spirit’s power. I don’t want that because I love her to death.
Also yeah I agree solo queue definitely needs buffs. I play solo queue normally and that experience can be rough.
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Yep exactly. The killer needs to have control of the chase. Not saying survivors should feel helpless but they shouldn’t be able to fight back for so long.
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Oh yeah I see where you're coming from too. I would also be fine with her just giving more feedback to survivors in the chase in exchange for other buffs so she's more counterable and fun to play against without making her any weaker. That'd still be a clear step forward.
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You said she needs a compensation buff for a nerf which for a killer of her power is totally unnecessary. She simple needs to be toned down as she is too strong and that’s all I wanted for her.
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I was thing maybe they should give her own chase music but when she phases her chase music sounds different
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Why would I need to anyway? I know how she works and how she is played as well as all the things survivors can attempt against her. That’s enough to come to a conclusion
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At least you understand. Thanks man.
Just because she’s top tier doesn’t mean she’ll be able to stand any nerfs. One careless change could cripple her power.
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True.
Like you said nerf means "to decrease the power of something." Many other entitled survivor mains do not understand how she works and therefore, they want her nerfed? That seems very impulsive and childish if you ask me. Why would you want something nerfed if you don't understand how it works?
Also, I love how you proved your points and how you elaborated on them.
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