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Survivor and Killer perks are switched around
(Thread inspired by @Tsulan)
Even the (supposedly) weakest Survivor perks grant massive buffs compared to Killer perks. Additionally, there are several perks on the Survivors' side that grant them self-sustainability. This is strange in an asymmetrical game, where the numbers side is supposed to rely on teamwork and the solo side is supposed to be self-sustaining. Let me give you a few examples:
Sloppy Butcher increases heal time by 25%. Healing with Self-Care takes up to 24 seconds. This means that Killers, by using Sloppy Butcher, get an additional 6 seconds if they let the Survivor heal up with Self-Care.
Botany Knowledge, on the other hand, increases healing speed by 20%, meaning that healing with Self-Care will take up about 17 seconds, almost as much as it does to heal another Survivor (12 seconds). Even if the Killer is using Sloppy Butcher, it's almost completely negated by Botany Knowledge, resulting in a mere 1 second increase in heal time with Self-Care. Botany Knowledge, however, is considered a weak perk.
Spies From The Shadows makes it so if crows fly away in a certain radius, there's a 75% chance you'll receive a notification.
Calm Spirit makes it so crows will never fly away from you, 100% of the time. Even crouching will guarantee that. Calm Spirit is considered a weak perk, even though its numbers completely neutralize the Killer's equivalent perk.
Let's look at a perk that's considered strong: Decisive Strike.
Decisive Strike allows you to escape the Killer's grasp once per trial by succeeding a very easy skill check, while also stunning them for 3 seconds. This means, in essence, that chases with Decisive Strike are prolonged by an additional 50% (at least). If the Survivor were to be put in the dying state after 60 seconds (which is a short chase by DbD standards), with Decisive Strike, the chase would be prolonged by 30 seconds.
There is no Killer perk in existence that can save them 30 seconds during a chase and has no counter.
Starting to notice the pattern? The perks designed to counter other perks or mechanics are completely lopsided.
Whereas the Survivor perks are overwhelmingly powerful, providing massive bonuses in time and outright cancelling Killer perks, the Killer perks are pathetically weak and barely give any additional time to the side that needs it the most.
The Survivor perks allow for self-sustainability, even though they're the side that should rely on either teamwork or stealth. The Killer perks allow for minor annoyances, like an additional 6 seconds of heal time or having to hit great skill checks all the time.
This is not acceptable in the slightest, if the game is to be balanced.
Comments
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The game is not meant to be balanced.
In the end we need a 1:4 ratio for the queues, guess thats the real issue why we will never get a balanced game
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@DeadByFlashlight said:
The game is not meant to be balanced.In the end we need a 1:4 ratio for the queues, guess thats the real issue why we will never get a balanced game
The ratio comes naturally from the fact that most people prefer to play with their friends no matter what. We don't need an unbalanced game to accomplish that, just look at what happened to Evolve.
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@Orion said:
@DeadByFlashlight said:
The game is not meant to be balanced.In the end we need a 1:4 ratio for the queues, guess thats the real issue why we will never get a balanced game
The ratio comes naturally from the fact that most people prefer to play with their friends no matter what. We don't need an unbalanced game to accomplish that, just look at what happened to Evolve.
I am pretty sure that if the game would actually be balanced, then killer queues would be insane.
Ofc thats only a guess and we will never get to know whether its true^^0 -
Very good topic.
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How many people run the perks you mentioned?
DS can be played around.
YOUR chases may last a minute, or a minute and a half if DS is in the mix, but that's you.
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Calm Spirit isn’t underwhelming because of its functionality, but because it just never gets to use the contents of the perk. If you go against the Doctor, yes. But what are the chances of that? There are 12 other killers to use, meaning you have a 7.7% chance to make use of it since you can’t see who they are playing. On top of that, Spies is never used anymore, not because Calm Spirit exists, but because it just sucks. Until Spies gets changed or reworked, I’m not sure why a perk that counters a useless perk is worth mentioning. Whispers has no perk counter and doesn’t have a 25% chance not to work. Just use that.
It’s hard to play back and forth with the whole direct counters thing, since there’s plenty of “x counters y” or “there is no direct counter to x” for both killers and survivors.
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@DexyIV said:
Calm Spirit isn’t underwhelming because of its functionality, but because it just never gets to use the contents of the perk. If you go against the Doctor, yes. But what are the chances of that? There are 12 other killers to use, meaning you have a 7.7% chance to make use of it since you can’t see who they are playing. On top of that, Spies is never used anymore, not because Calm Spirit exists, but because it just sucks. Until Spies gets changed or reworked, I’m not sure why a perk that counters a useless perk is worth mentioning. Whispers has no perk counter and doesn’t have a 25% chance not to work. Just use that.It’s hard to play back and forth with the whole direct counters thing, since there’s plenty of “x counters y” or “there is no direct counter to x” for both killers and survivors.
The contents of the perk aren't limited to the Doctor.
It's not hard to play back and forth. Killers are meant to be the power role, so their perks should be more powerful. However, it only takes one Survivor perk to counter one Killer perk, whereas it should take four Survivor perks to counter one Killer perk. This is, after all, a 4v1 asymmetrical game.
Nerf Survivor perks, make them work in combination when multiple Survivors have the same perks equipped, and buff Killer perks. That's all.
I see the "LOL" trolls have come out in full force, so I'm going to assume they know I'm right.
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@Orion said:
@DexyIV said:
Calm Spirit isn’t underwhelming because of its functionality, but because it just never gets to use the contents of the perk. If you go against the Doctor, yes. But what are the chances of that? There are 12 other killers to use, meaning you have a 7.7% chance to make use of it since you can’t see who they are playing. On top of that, Spies is never used anymore, not because Calm Spirit exists, but because it just sucks. Until Spies gets changed or reworked, I’m not sure why a perk that counters a useless perk is worth mentioning. Whispers has no perk counter and doesn’t have a 25% chance not to work. Just use that.It’s hard to play back and forth with the whole direct counters thing, since there’s plenty of “x counters y” or “there is no direct counter to x” for both killers and survivors.
The contents of the perk aren't limited to the Doctor.
It's not hard to play back and forth. Killers are meant to be the power role, so their perks should be more powerful. However, it only takes one Survivor perk to counter one Killer perk, whereas it should take four Survivor perks to counter one Killer perk. This is, after all, a 4v1 asymmetrical game.
Nerf Survivor perks, make them work in combination when multiple Survivors have the same perks equipped, and buff Killer perks. That's all.
I see the "LOL" trolls have come out in full force, so I'm going to assume they know I'm right.
I agree that Killer perks are meant to be more powerful. But I can understand where the Design idea from Calm Spirit - Spies or Lightweight vs. Predator etc. It originates from the original design concept of teamplay beeing optional and the Win and Lose condition for each survivor is that kinda one on one each of them. A simultaneous exhibition for the killer, basicly.
That's probably why they thought that a killer perk can completely be countered by a survivor perk. Considering they are the "weaker side" in a possible one on one condition. I mean, even if oen Survivor has Calm Spirit, the other three won't have it, which means, that the killer still has full potential of it.0 -
@Orion said:
@DexyIV said:
Calm Spirit isn’t underwhelming because of its functionality, but because it just never gets to use the contents of the perk. If you go against the Doctor, yes. But what are the chances of that? There are 12 other killers to use, meaning you have a 7.7% chance to make use of it since you can’t see who they are playing. On top of that, Spies is never used anymore, not because Calm Spirit exists, but because it just sucks. Until Spies gets changed or reworked, I’m not sure why a perk that counters a useless perk is worth mentioning. Whispers has no perk counter and doesn’t have a 25% chance not to work. Just use that.It’s hard to play back and forth with the whole direct counters thing, since there’s plenty of “x counters y” or “there is no direct counter to x” for both killers and survivors.
The contents of the perk aren't limited to the Doctor.
It's not hard to play back and forth. Killers are meant to be the power role, so their perks should be more powerful. However, it only takes one Survivor perk to counter one Killer perk, whereas it should take four Survivor perks to counter one Killer perk. This is, after all, a 4v1 asymmetrical game.
Nerf Survivor perks, make them work in combination when multiple Survivors have the same perks equipped, and buff Killer perks. That's all.
I see the "LOL" trolls have come out in full force, so I'm going to assume they know I'm right.
Then what else can it do? Counter Spies, the worst tracking perk in the game that no one uses? Useless there Prevent screaming from being intoxicated? He'll only throw bottles when he sees you. That scream isn't going to give you away in like, any situation. No groaning in pain when you get hit? Also useless. Please give me any use other than the list I just gave you that makes Calm Spirit something other than a Doctor counter that is practical.
Killers are meant to have the power role, and they do have this role. A lot of their perks have no counters. There is no way to counter BBQ, Tinkerer, MYC, Brutal Strength, Enduring, Spirit Fury, Rancor, etc. through the use of survivor perks. This whole idea of "wow one of my perks is useless because someone had Botany Knowledge" is ridiculous. It still reduces their healing time, meaning you still get to make use of the perk. Most perks you can use nowadays don't even have counters like Sloppy Butcher does. If you have such a problem with your perk being countered once every like, 10 games by a singular person using BK, then just don't use the damn perk. Or you could also use Thanatophobia to slow down the healing even more if it is THAT big of a deal. I feel like you are narrowing your focus too hard on this interaction between SB and BK when there are a lot of other things that can affect how it works.
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I for one would love for this game to come to the balance it should be with the killer finally running the show as well....... for once I'm actually in a disagreement with you I normally enjoy your threads and the points that you make about the game...sloppy butcher is a great perk rework from what it used to be, rancor and enduring ( with spirit fury existing why wouldnt anyone wanna run enduring unless you wanna run a different build) counter DS (this doesnt mean I'm supporting DS..... DS needs to allow the obsession ONLY to get off the shoulder the rest of the 4 I dont care about have it be blacked out on the other 3.... we have rancor which is an insta death if their caught and its balanced for 1 DS not 2 or more)
As for killer perks I disagree that they are all week not all of them are countered by survivors perks and some actually force the survivors into stealth... whispers forces the survivors into stealth and has no counter, stridor actually counters a meta perk iron will, bitter murmur now has no real counter if used correctly.... DS yes is broken because it allows more then 1 to get off rendering all perks that counter it useless against it atm but that doesnt mean that all killer perks are weak like you stated0
