Nerf the Spirit
The Spirit in my eyes os the only killer in the game that needs a heavy nerf. Her phase walking is definitely one of the worst things to go against as a survivor.
The real problem likes on that there’s almost literally no way to tell where she is going or coming from, and as a survivor, it’s your task to figure out a way to get away from the killer but how can you do that when you can’t even see the killer.
Other fast traveling killers have a way of telling you when they’re doing it: Legion makes your heartbeat fast, Billy’s chainsaw can be heard, nurse faces a direction and has a trail showing where she is blinking to, blight literally makes a sound when he dashes. The spirit however has no cue other than a sound, and it’s pretty difficult to determine where it’s coming from either.
They need to make it so we see glimpses of her as she is phasing so when can better determine what she’s doing, her gameplay is way too guess filled and just like huntress main who know how to hit shots with iridescent head (which has been in the game for the entire time she’s been added and is still a major problem) is a little overpowered
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The entire point of her power is to leave you guessing.
The comparison to the other killers also isn't fair. Billy can insta-down you, Spirit can't. Legion's power can't down you unless you're stupid enough to let deep wound run out and then you deserve it, Nurse's blink is much faster than Spirit's phase-walk and Blight can cover much more distance than Spirit while also actually seeing you.
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And old ds’s entire design was a get out of jail free card. Was that fair?
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Spirit just needs to give the survivors some kind of feedback and make it slightly harder to track injured survivors during phase. Then she’d be okay to fight against
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I don't care for whataboutism since it serves only to distract from the actual argument. This is a Spirit discussion, not a DS discussion.
This has nothing to do with fairness. It's a power you can in fact work around if you're observant, I consider that a fair requirement for that case.
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Spirit needs to hear reduced 50% sound during phase, so with stridor it's 100%, and when survivor has iron will it will cancel it.
That's enough nerf for me
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I don't think any killer should be nerfed to the point of making one or more perks basically a requirement to play them.
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I’ll expand on it then. Spirit is the only killer out of 22 who doesn’t give the survivor anything to work with in chase.
Even deathslinger and nurse gives an idea of what they are doing mid chase
If you’re so confident she has counter play let’s say I’m injured without iron will, What do I do?
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Then why is it okay that you need iron will to play against her?
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Spirit doesnt need a nerf,i have escaped many times as solo playing against a spirit. Nurse on the other hand is way stronger
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While nurse is stronger both need a nerf as they are on a different level to the other 20 killers
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You loop the killer easy and you dont camp pallet like you are used to you can try to escape tge chase too instead of trying to buy time for your teamate
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I can’t condition them when there’s only three chases per game usually. Especially when she knows where you are due to pain grunts .
You can get an idea of where she is but by that point it’s too late and you’re already dead since she moves so fast in phase
Standing still can work with IW but if you don’t have it she’ll just hear you and you’re dead
I can learn what a player does but by that point I’m already dead since I don’t have enough time to make good use of it
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I disagree,spirit without a headset is literally useless and unplayable so to play her first you need a headset. Even with a headset if a survivor has iron will,stridor spirit cant hear them and thats your first counter. Her power doesnt need 2 seconds to reload like nurse but alot more wich make her alot weak in comparison. Nurse needs a nerf,a good nurse(not the best one)can end any game in 2 minutes
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I don’t camp pallets period since it’s a bad idea and there’s no winning a chase against spirit only her giving up on you. If the spirit is good you’re going down
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Y'know, I never understood the whole "bUt ThE WhoLe POINt IS NOt gIvING yOU inFO" angle.
Every single other killer, before and after spirit, gives you info. Audio, visual, you name it. Because it's incredibly important for both sides to have something to work with so chases are.. y'know, fair. But not Spirit, I guess.
Imagine if we were playing CS:GO and they decided to put in a gun for the Counter Terrorists that shot around walls and auto-aimed for the head. No need for aiming or cover or risking your head, just boom. We can even give it some dumbass high-tech explanation that makes it fit. And everyone complains about it because it's busted.
"BuT tHE whOLe PoINt Is beING SaFe whILe shOOtInG"
That sure is the whole point, yes.
Doesn't make it any less busted, unhealthy, and out-of-style. You get to ignore the careful positioning and aiming a firefight that practically defines CS:GO because something is working as intended. You get to ignore the back-and-forth feedback of info in chases that helps make them so fun because Spirit is working as intended.
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Firstly any killer worth their time will use headphones and secondly stridor counteracts iron will. If you use your power in short bursts the cooldown can be like 5-8 seconds which is very short
Agreed though nurse is stronger and needs a nerf too
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Exactly my point. This killer needs to be changed on design principles alone
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No,alot of people that plays on console doesnt use headphones and even if they do they will need at least good headsets to hear survivor position. Ive played many times with stridor and iron will counter it 100%,survivors with that perk are totally silent. Spirit is a strong killer but not a braindead one and doesn’t need another nerf,on the other hand nurse is not only a strong killer but a very strong killer above any other killers. Strong killers SHOULD EXIST!!!!!!!! In any games theres strong things than others,for example in nba,pes,fifa,nfl etc theres very strong teams and weaker teams. In cod,battlefield etc theres stronger weapons and weaker weapons etc......i would not enter into more details but im sure you understand
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Spirit doesn't need a nerf at all. You can't see her, but guess what... she can't see you either! And she can't hear you if you crouch.
She's 100%, ad she has a cooldown on her power too. And she leaves clues in the environment, same as you do (birds, footsteps, etc).
She's all about the mind-games, and you have to play them back - will you vault the window? which side of the pallet that you just dropped are you on? etc.
She's absolutely counterable. Do not confuse your inability to play against her as her being overpowered and in need of a nerf.
You're not meant to escape every game, all the time. There's four of you, split up, do gens, use strategy. End of.
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Spirit is fine as she is. She doesn't need changes.
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The way to beat spirit is gen rush. She has to commit to chases. She can't be 4 places at once. Remember the game is 4v1 not 1v1. Stop thinking chases are just 1v1. Its not. Only selfish baddies thinks that. Your goal against spirit chases is to waste enough of her time for gens to get done. If you split up she loses. If you group together. Then well its easier for her.
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The way to beat every killer is to gen rush
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Your pain grunts are reduced by crouching but she can still hear them
Using her power in short bursts alleviates the cooldown
Birds are going to be alerted by you first unless you have calm spirit and footsteps can be heard but by the time you hear them you’re dead since she moves so fat
mindgames can’t happen when you’re injured and she can hear you.
I know I can’t win every chase but I want my skill to mean something. Balance chase killers are huntress and billy
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Check the wiki if you want iron will gets countered by stridor. Headphones are a must if you want to play this game and win especially for killer
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Because in reality, you don't.
It is possible to beat Spirits without having Iron Will.
And reading more of your comments in this thread, I don't think you're actually wanting to get an answer on how one can beat her in the current game.
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No Mither, Fixated, Iron Will, Calm Spirit.
She’ll never ever find you again, even if she’s running Stridor.
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"I’ll expand on it then. Spirit is the only killer out of 22 who doesn’t give the survivor anything to work with in chase."
If you're looking for feedback to counter Spirit then you fundamentally don't understand how to play against Spirit.
You are trying to counter Spirit in the way you counter other killers which is the complete opposite of what you do.
You force Spirit to react to you, not you reacting to her.
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while this would work against spirit too bad If I’m fighting against one of the other 21 killers
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Of course I want counterplay otherwise I wouldn’t be complaining about her.
I do appreciate the advice you gave me and I have used it but the reality is against a decent spirit or one with stridor it ain’t working
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But why should she be the only killer to not give feedback?
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you either doesnt understand english or you are slightly stupid without any offense. IRON WILL COUNTER STRIDOR
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Because you have to play against her differently...because killer variety is good...
This is like playing against a Trapper and you want to loop the shack, then complaining that you can't loop the shack because he has traps there and asking why you should have to disarm or look for traps. It's because he's a different killer and asks different things of you.
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Well, no counter-play will or even should work 100% of the time. Good killers are generally those that learn how to block counter-play, that you'll most likely lose against them is only logical. But it's also not a bad thing, since I think the most-skilled player is the one who should win.
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You see I can see the trap which allows me to play around it as well as seeing trapper put the trap down. Trapping windows is very common so I’ll be on the lookout and shack is always a hot zone for traps.
Also trapper can get countered by disarm his ability. You can’t disarm a spirit phase and even if she misses she suffers minimal cooldown
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The equivalent to you disarming his traps is forcing the Spirit to look for feedback from you. Different killers are countered in different ways.
You need to understand what Spirit sees and hears to manipulate it to give her false information. Her counter play isn't as simple as many other killers.
IE she's phasing after you (all she sees is scratch marks going to a window and hears you fast vault), now you wait a couple seconds and then slow vault back over. You manipulated the info she received here. She will phase around assuming you kept going and now she has her power on cooldown and your on opposite sides of a 110% killer who shouldn't be downing you without her power. You just gave your team at least half an entire gen of objective progress without using a single pallet or getting a single hit.
I could go on and on and on with more scenario like this.
The point for you to take away from this is what I already told you. You force Spirit to react to you, not you reacting to her. You play against her pro-actively, not re-actively.
You're trying to play against her like she's the same as other killers and then complaining that it's not working. Different problems require different solutions.
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You see but what happens if you’re injured and she hears you in the other side? Or a patch of grass rustles next to the window? Or she can see your blood because she brought an addon?
Also slow vaulting pallets can’t work due to your survivor making a sound whether injured or not
Spirit moves really fast when in phase so survivors are forced to react really quickly to nothing in a blind hope that she messes up
Also footsteps are still heard while walking kind you they are pretty quiet
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"You see but what happens if you’re injured and she hears you in the other side?"
That's why you pause a couple seconds before going back over.
"Or a patch of grass rustles next to the window?"
Why are you walking through grass? If it's the grass right on top of the window it's irrelevant because by the time you're standing in it she had already committed to going around.
"Or she can see your blood because she brought an addon?"
That's an ultra-rare. IE completely irrelevant and not worth mentioning.
"Also slow vaulting pallets can’t work due to your survivor making a sound whether injured or not"
An extremely quiet sound that 99% of Spirits aren't hearing and even if they do it's after they already committed to going around which is why you paused a couple seconds before doubling back.
"Spirit moves really fast when in phase so survivors are forced to react really quickly to nothing in a blind hope that she messes up"
Once again, stop trying to react to her. You keep giving her false information and get her to make the wrong read.
"Also footsteps are still heard while walking kind you they are pretty quiet"
Irrelevant. 99% of Spirits you face are not hearing those walking footsteps. Btw, crouching also silences you even further.
You are asking for things that are 100% counters, IE the killer would never be strong. When you're injured yes these mind games are much harder as then she has the advantage, but when you aren't injured you have the advantage and she is having to completely guess what you're doing.
This is also all counters we're talking about at base. There are also multiple perks that can make all these scenarios even much easier for you.
And before it gets brought up, no you don't have to have perks to counter her.
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- pausing a couple of seconds will get you killed since she moves so fast
- sometimes you have to walk through the grass depending on the map and that’s a pretty dead giveaway. Doesn’t help that spirit herself doesn’t move it. I’ve vaulted the window and she’s kinda close to it she can go around again and hit me since her phase lasts a while and again her speed
- While rarely used it has some relevance just as stridor or iron will do
- Sure it is quiet but it’s still something a competent spirit will pick up on since I’m talking about experienced spirits
- speed is always going to be a problem regardless of what you do. If you feed her information and she falls for it she will still be on your ass immediately with the out of phase speed boost
- Again talking about experienced spirits but crouching does reduce them as well as your pain grunts and this can help but again you can’t gain real distance on her while crouching even if she messes up
Im not having trouble with mediocre spirits they are fairly easy to deal with but experienced spirits will leave you no chance and this isn’t mentioning stridor
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I think that you believe you are facing better than average Spirits because you aren't doing these things properly.
The last time I faced a Spirit that this stuff didn't work against was months ago at rank 1. As I said, 99% of the Spirits you are facing this will work on, not just mediocre Spirits.
These extremely tiny little nuancesses of these strategies not working is the minority. Even against most experienced and even good Spirits these things will work. I do them regularly at rank 1 and they work. That's also me not using any of the perks that aide in countering Spirit either.
She isn't as extremely fast as you feel like. Yes it's fast, but it's not too fast for those mind games as you're implying. If you time them correctly it's very much doable. Part of the reason I feel like you may not be implementing this stuff correctly is because we began this entire conversation with you complaining about reacting to Spirit, IE implying you already weren't playing against her correctly.
Do you play Spirit regularly at rank 1? This will make you a lot better at countering her as survivor as you'll understand more what she's seeing and hearing as well as memorizing the timing/speed on her phase.
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she isnt overpowered but she is really annoying to go against. when she is phasing or faking it its 50 50. basically you flip a coin
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Have you tried playing as spirit? It seems you have some misunderstanding of her mechanics and weaknesses, so it may help to play 10-15 games as her to get a good feel for it. That's what I do when I find a killer who constantly owns me as a survivor.
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I mean idk. This one player used urban evasion and iron will and pretty much single handly won the game (being they were the only one to escape)
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Well props to him but that’s very rarely going to happen
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Well i mean yea. If survivors keeps only bringing meta. They get what they deserve.
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Survivor meta needs a nerf too tbf
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Yes, she can hear your grunts of pain... which meant she had to get a hit on you in the first place. And she can't see you while in phase, that's for you to use your surroundings to your advantage.
Using her power in short bursts alleviates the cooldown
There's still a cooldown, and she's still 110%. Use that to your advantage.
Birds are going to be alerted by you first unless you have calm spirit and footsteps can be heard but by the time you hear them you’re dead since she moves so fat
Birds are alerted by you if you run... who said that's the best move? Often times, as soon as you realise she's phasing, stop, crouch and hide somewhere, and let her mind-game herself. At the very least she'll have burnt out her power giving you a chance to run. But guess what... generally speaking, in a chase the survivors lose to the killer!
mindgames can’t happen when you’re injured and she can hear you.
They absolutely can. Are you going to vault the pallet/window or not? And if you can't play the mind-game, equip perks that'll help. I mean, survivors have got a whole ton of 2nd chance assistive perks... pick some. Don't blame the killer for your inability to play against her.
I know I can’t win every chase but I want my skill to mean something.
That door swings both ways. Spirit players who've learned to track and predict survivor running patterns also want their skill to mean something, and rewarded with a quick down. Plus, you can't presume your skill is such that you can escape her easily because - very clearly from your responses - it's not there. I've played as Spirit against players who've properly juiced me, their skill meant they escaped. You're not at that level, clearly. The solution is for you to get better... not to nerf the Spirit to empower you, because that'll completely break the game at higher levels of gameplay.
Survivors like to crap on killers all the time and complain that a killer is OP, but I've yet to see realisation that killers have to learn a variety of different skills, and they have a much harder more stressful role overall. The two sides are not equal, and killers deserve to get their kills in too.
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I’m not saying killer is less stressful than survivor( well unless you play Freddy) but Spirit is still too easy for the immense reward you get from her
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I understand she needs a change but why are you asking for a heavy nerf? It’s gotten to the point where y’all just want her to be gutted.
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I feel like the only change Spirit needs is while shes spirit walking she can't see blood
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That's already the case unless you use the ultra rare addon.
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