A response to those against adding LGBTQIA+
Comments
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How is a casual mention of a same-sex relationship (y'know, like how they do it for opposite-sex relationships) that focuses on the more important aspects of a character's backstory worse?
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Off the top of my head? Sally, David, Ace.
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You said yourself you didn’t expect an answer though, that’s why i called it a rhetorical question.
and maybe I have used a wrong word with ‚problem‘, but it does matter to you how others see their pixel characters. Otherwise you wouldn’t have felt the need to ask that question in the first place. And you have stated that you find it strange. That’s what I meant with ‚problem‘, I didn’t mean to use that to make an assumption and apologize for that. (I am not a native English speaker so sometimes I use simplified words)
but as I have said before: there is really no need to call out others for being strange just because they care about fictional characters that already have rich and deep backstories. (Not saying anything about the quality of those backstories, I don’t care that much about lore in DbD, but that doesn’t change the fact it is already there and gets expanded more and more)
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Ok perfect, let's take a look at David's main lore (not the tome) first. For reference, i'm using the wiki: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/David_King
The single child of a wealthy family, David King seemed destined for greatness. While growing up in Manchester, he demonstrated serious potential in both sports and academics, and with his family connections, all doors were open to him. He could have succeeded at anything, if it weren't for his combative nature. David lived for the adrenaline rush of a good fight and would go out of his way to get into one.
His robustness and athletic abilities led him to rugby, where he could cut loose and really cause a ruckus. King excelled and gained a reputation as a promising, if somewhat reckless, rookie. His meteoric rise came to an abrupt end when he lost his temper and assaulted a referee, earning himself a lifetime ban from the league and cutting short what most people assumed was going to be a long, successful career. King was unconcerned; money was no issue, so he took it as an early retirement and focused on other fun things to do.
Free from the constraints of a career and enabled by the wealth of his family, David King spent most of his time at the pub, drinking, watching games, and getting into fights. Some might say he was wasting his life away. Not many people knew that he was an occasional "debt collector" or that he fought in clandestine bare-knuckle fight clubs.
When David King stopped showing up at the pub, the few friends he still had were not surprised. They figured he had finally picked a fight with someone stronger than he was. In a way, they were right.
Nothing here indicates that he is straight, it comes from the tomes here: https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Tome_II_-_Reckoning#David_King:_Manchester_Mash-Up
Now, looking at the short bit of lore above, what do we know about David?:
- He doesn't have any brothers or sisters
- He comes from a wealthy family.
- He is from Manchester.
- He is very athletic and also smart.
- He is aggressive and has an anger problem.
- He is an adrenaline junkie.
- He played rugby.
- He once assaulted a ref during a game and because of that ended his career
- Afterwards he started getting into fights on the street and in clubs.
now, unless i'm missing it, i don't see anything that indicates that he is straight, either here, or in the tome.
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After a casual look I'll give you Sally although, after her husband died is there any mention of her taking another man, if not thats slightly presumptuous but fair.
I couldnt find any reference on the main wiki page that indicates Ace or David though.
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Well I play all kinds of games, if you named a story based semi open /open world game I have likely played. Dbd story to me is like someone found a book but upon opening it the pages are in random order. The tome memories are like dragon age books boring and lifeless and the stories what are they??
If they made the memories voiced still images like in yakuza 0 it would have been better but even then from the tome I did do all it tells me is about David King beating random men up and wasting his money and next tome they don't continue david story.
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@Orion This is generally what i mean. No characters really explicitly call it out, and those that do, it isn't really central to their character. Sure Sally had a husband, but is her "straightness" a main part of her character? No. But my point is, when they make someone NOT straight, it's going to be some huge part of their character, rather than just being another fact about them.
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His ex has moved on and she doesn't want to see his face.
From Memory 341. The fact that you completely glossed over it proves that the devs know how to keep the focus on the more important tidbits, which is what I've been saying all along.
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Those might all not be heterosexual (and others are Felix and Legion), but it doesn’t change the fact that there are multiple heterosexual relationships featured while everything remotely LGBT+ is absent.
For Ace it is also only implied in cosmetic descriptions.
and people are mostly asking for and expecting LGBT inclusion just like those mentioned heterosexual relationship inclusions. No one asks for explicit description of the homosexuality of a character.
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Again it doesn't matter to me I'm not going to be lying in bed awake and trembling over what others believe on things that don't exist and I haven't called anyone out so that's a lie. It was innocent rhetorical question.
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Ok, so, we are trying to have a civil discussion so let's try to stay civil, yeah?
I misread that as being one of the other people not David King. But this brings up my point perfectly. This is the only mention of him being straight in the lore. It is a single, throwaway line that isn't really a big deal. They don't call out his straightness.
But when other games tend to make a gay character for example, they make a point to call it out, constantly. When it would be better served to have a line for our hypothetical male character that in the lore talks about "his husband" rather than constantly talking about how he is gay.
THAT is the point i'm making.
With the way these people keep asking for this representation, they aren't going to do that. They are going to make it a big focal part of the character. Probably make some big announcement like "we have a gay character now yay", the character will have the offensive and stereotypical "gay lisp" and maybe even throw in a rainbow cosmetic for good measure. All of which is worse then doing nothing.
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Ahh another presumption that doesnt necessarily mean hetero could be bi or something else
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You didn’t call people that care for sexuality of videogame characters strange?
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By your logic if someone respond to something it means they care? So if i message random stranger "hi" and they respond they care about me? I don't think so, if I respond to any post on here the true reason is I thought of doing it so I did it.
If someone tell me not to touch hot surface, my brain will dare me to do so and I do it. Has nothing to do with "caring" or any real rational thought.
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After a casual look I'll give you Sally although, after her husband died is there any mention of her taking another man, if not thats slightly presumptuous but fair.
Listen, I'm not gonna pretend that heterosexual people are a minority, so I would appreciate it if you (and everyone else) would also not pretend that you actually think a character who was in an opposite-sex relationship (or one with no explicit relationships) might not be heterosexual. We're all adults here, presumably, so let's act like it.
I couldnt find any reference on the main wiki page that indicates Ace or David though.
Ace is obviously a stereotypical "ladies man" (funny how that stereotype doesn't cause this many complaints, whereas even the possibility of a stereotypical LGBT character is apparently too big a risk to even include LGBT characters, but I digress). However, I will concede that there's no explicit mention of him being with a woman. I've already quoted where David's ex is mentioned, though.
So you do understand why people would care about "the sexual orientation of pixels". Why were you saying you didn't?
No LGBT lore has been added to the game, so your argument is moot because it boils down to "it could be anything, so it will be bad". My argument is based on what the devs have written previously, which you yourself so perfectly demonstrated is quite effective at keeping the readers focused on things besides exes and loved ones.
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No one talked to you here. You joined this explicit discussion freely so your examples don’t have real similarity. And you also don’t participate in almost every other discussion.
yeah, that is showing me that you cared at least a little bit.
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I'll give you that, my problem is that most other games don't handle it well.
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You just demonstrated that DbD handles it quite well.
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Hmm? No I don't understand. Like I say I am not thinking on any character in any type of caring way. There is difference between being invested in story and how it play out vs spending time wondering about non existent things a made up character is doing, I don't sit and ponder what type of dog the shape digests or anything like that.
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Not exactly, those other games i mention do what DBD does now for straight people, but when they get their gay character, they do the things i said. History has show that many companies do that and pander and create the "token" character. I'm not saying that is what BHVR is going to do, but since we don't have evidence of it, i can only go off of history, and other companies that seem to handle straight relationships well, don't handle other ones well.
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So you don't care about characters. Again, that's your personal preference. Other people want to know the characters' backstories and find them interesting, like Harry Potter.
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You could go off of this game's history, though. Instead, you're choosing to extrapolate from the worst examples. Why is that?
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because i go by what history has shown. And history show the vast majority of companies do it poorly.
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No one talked to me yes that is a known fact but as I already said, thought of posting comment came into my mind so I did it. Also I am playing matches between checking this and it is difficult to read other posts when two of you keep pinging me. Again me commenting on a post doesn't mean I "care" it's me thinking of posting and giving in to myself.
Me responding to you is simply because I see the pings and it's telling me to be the one to end the chain. It is like if I look inside closet, I am compelled to do so again well here I see ping and it compel me to respond not out of "caring"
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As I say already others are entitled to their beliefs, likes and dislikes.. Now please consider this reply chain closed, you don't need to ping me after this post.
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"The squeaky wheel gets the grease", have you heard that expression before? There are good examples of LGBT representation, but those don't generate the same clickbait-y headlines and articles we're all used to seeing being spread around by people with questionable motives. I could use those to extrapolate how DbD will be if and when BHVR adds the first explicitly non-heterosexual character, but I'm not, because BHVR is not the same company that created those other characters.
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You said that, yes, but you also said that there was something "wrong" with people whose likes differed from yours, at least in this regard.
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I'm just gonna go ahead and disengage now, there really isn't a point in continuing this conversation anymore as it is clear that you don't really care about my point of view and we aren't really getting anywhere on either side. Good luck, and Good bye!
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All I did was point out that you mostly hear about the bad examples. I am literally recognizing that you heard a lot of bad examples, while telling you that there are also good examples. Sorry if you expected me to just agree with you without thinking about my own experience.
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Please stop replying as i don't want to be tagged in this thread anymore. I'd like to just agree to disagree and move on with our lives. Thanks and good luck.
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Thank you, good luck to you as well.
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I will just jump straight to my end point here.
As it stands character sexuality and gender identity is vague and not definitive, which i think is a good thing it lets anyone create their own identity for any character. I can say that Nea is trans, Dwight is gay, or Kate is a lesbian and i cant be proven wrong because it is my belief and there is no actual definitive evidence to prove that assessment wrong. We can disagree and have a discussion but in the end each person decides their interpretation of each character. This is actually a very inclusive way of doing things.
If they now change pace (and im not saying they cant), they are going to be creating a character that some people will feel alienated from because they lose that ability to craft that character identity that they have been able to with other characters.
Basically i would say that a policy of vague inclusivity is better than certain alienation.
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Show where I said that
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That ship has sailed long ago, yet nobody complained when it was about heterosexual relationships. It's only become a "problem" now that it might not be about heterosexual relationships.
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Yeah right
in my headcanon Sally, the Nurse is lesbian!
oh wait. Seems like your argument doesn’t hold for every char.
and nobody asked for explicit definition of the sexuality of every single character. People are generally just asking for LGBT+ to not be excluded and be handeled just like straight relationships have been handeled since the beginning.
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My bad, you didn't explicitly say it, but you did heavily imply it, since you kept insisting that you weren't the one with the problem (despite nobody saying you had a problem). And then there's this comment:
So no, you may not have explicitly said other people had a problem, but these comments certainly indicate you believe they do.
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Ok as far as i know we agreed that sally is the only definitive hetero relationship in the gameso i dont know where that came from
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There's also David,Felix and Legion that involved straight relationships
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We did not agree on that, no. I already quoted David's heterosexual relationship, for example. In fact, every explicit relationship in the lore has been heterosexual. So why do you suppose people might want a non-heterosexual relationship, for once?
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Don't get me started on Legion. That tome is just shoving Frank and Julie's heterosexuality down our throats.
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Bit late to this but I have to say if you genuinely have a problem with an lgbt character in a game you must have very little things to worry about
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Why are you all fighting and complaining when Behavior hasn't released anything concrete about the Survivor and Killer?
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Isn’t Dwight gay?
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Not as far as we know, no. I hope he isn't (even though he's cute), because the whole "gay men are skinny weaklings" thing is getting a bit stale.
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It's not about the upcoming killer and survivor anymore but it rather exposes the double standards a TON of people show here whenever the topic LGBT+ is mentioned.
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I swear,it's pretty amazing and saddening to see HOW many people don't see their own hypocrisy (or just didn't bother to read the lore at all) regarding this topic.
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If they add the character in the right way then I don't care.
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I think these are valid points.
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You don't know me or what I believe so I kindly again ask that you stop pinging me, consider this closed and don't make assumptions. What I say in person or online is never meant in any kind of negative or positive way.
My views on this post are neutral, I don't care what they add to this game or what the other players do in their lives or anything like that is not my business. Like I say I got urge to post so I did it's hard to resist when think of something then just act on it without thought of any repercussion. Like I say is like repeating a word multiple times because thought of it or opening closet multiple times, I'm not fully in control of this.
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I think you should do some introspection, because nobody says "I'm not the one with the problem" (paraphrasing) without meaning to imply that the other person is the one with the problem. You should also try to get some help for impulse control, before it becomes a problem. Just my two cents. Good luck.
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