What's the problem? ( my opinion on LGBT)
It doesn't seem to make sense about why everyone is arguing. This whole LGBT thing is getting out of control. And I think I should offer my opinion on it. I'm going to say that I'm for adding in a LGBT character in the game. Sure it might not change gameplay a substantial amount but their is not really and harm in doing so.
Like seriously if your opposed to it ask yourself what's the damage in adding a character like this in them?
The only legitimate concerns I have seen are that they are worried about how they are going to handle the character and how it not needed for the game.
The first concern is legitimate since their have been many time in the past where LGBT people have been portrayed as these 1 dimensional characters that have no dependable traits other then they are Gay or Trans ect. I'm concerned about this too as it's disrespectful to the community and imply we have no personality. But this is were good writing comes in and BHVR has shown to be competent writers who can handle this issue well. I'm confident that this problem will not happen.
The second concern is that its not needed. This is also a valid concern and would be more valid if it effected gamplay, however as stated there is no realistic way adding a LGBT character can effect gameplay at all. So if it's not effecting what's important and it's not needed that means they are just doing it to be nice. If you think about it the same logic can be applied to adding a character of a different race. if it's not a detriment in doing so then what is the problem?
Now before I end this I would like to end that saying that not wanting to add a LGBT character in the game automatically means your homophobic. If your straight or gay and don't care about representation that's completely fine, more power to you. If your straight or gay and want representation then that's also fine too.
This is my opinion on the issue so please be respectful.
Comments
-
I think it's the fact that it has become so overblown. The game is collapsing under the weight of years of bugs and the developers have mangled 2 maps so badly they play like they were from 2016/2017 and they've proven that they just don't understand how to make good maps. In addition you've got hackers running rampant and a lot of the survivorbase completely ditched the game completely for a few weeks due to desync issues.
But this is all going under the radar right now over the debate of a fictional characters sexuality/gender in a game that features no romance and no real plot.
I think there's a time and a place for the LGBT discussion and characters but right now there are more important issues and there's radio silence from the community managers
14 -
The people who work on lore are not the same ones who work on balance and fixing bugs. Those two teams are also (most likely) separate as well.
12 -
Agreed. People will swear up and down against it saying it shouldn't matter in this game, but that's just it - if it truly doesn't matter, then why is anyone against it?
9 -
No but considering how butchered parts of the game are this needs addressing, not drowned out under the weight of something else. The LGBT character could be done at any point quite easily, these kind of fixes require more work.
1 -
Almost every time there’s a post about LGBTQ+ in this community, it goes awry.
It shouldn’t be like that.
1 -
You do have a point but I would argue they are somewhat in the same boat. We have been asking for optimization and bug fixes for a long time as well as the addition of LGBT characters in the game. But I will agree we should focus on pushing them to include both.
1 -
More work from a different department. It's a different group of people. Should every department stand down until the programmers have fixed more bugs?
3 -
Should we just go silent and pretend these issues don't exist while we debate the sexual preferences of the next survivor? Maybe if there was some communication that would help
2 -
No, but you can definitely participate in more than one conversation at the same time. Hell, open up a thread of your own about the game's issues. There's a feedback section for that stuff.
6 -
It's all just about been said before, but it's just a non-issue being blown out of proportion. People can argue back and forth on this until they're blue in the face, but if an LGBT+ character was added in, just like any other diverse character it won't impact the typical gameplay one bit. Some would exaggerate and have you think the apocalypse is coming to DBD, but the world will still be spinning, tomorrow will still come, the sky will still be overhead. It's just something that is blown out of proportion on the forums, but in-game, it wouldn't play any different from normal.
5 -
Perfectly put.
4 -
Ah yes the feedback section, because that always works.
1 -
If by "works" you mean "the devs immediately do whatever I say", then no, it doesn't. That doesn't mean it's pointless.
Here's how it works:
- Feedback is taken in
- The devs discuss whether or not the issue needs to be fixed (for example, someone could complain that totems are well-hidden, even though that's the whole point)
- The best fix is determined (this is days, maybe weeks of discussions)
- They have to start working on creating and implementing the fix (weeks of work, maybe more)
- They have to test the implementation (again, this is weeks of testing)
- They have to fix the major bugs that QA identified (a few more weeks of work)
- It goes back to QA to be tested again (this is probably a shorter testing period, I'd wager a week, tops)
- Goes to the PTB, if they decide it's necessary
- Goes to live
That's months of work. The devs aren't going to drop everything the instant someone makes a suggestion, they have to take everything into account.
7 -
Bugs and map issues have been present for 4 years yet untouched. Who HASN'T complained about say Haddonfield at some point? They don't care dude.
2 -
I don't know if you've noticed, but maps have been getting massive reworks for a while now. As for the bugs, please name the worst ones, just so I know what you're referring to.
5 -
Dude this forum post has nothing to do with Haddonfield.
1 -
🤦♀️
That's the problem my friend......that's the problem. The maps are being reworked and sadly it's the worst thing that is happening to the game. The changes are abysmal.
2 -
Well I openly am for lgbt character and a bunch of people label me homophobe. This community full of unreasonable people with poor attitudes and no respect for others.
Is good post though op 🙂
1 -
I don't care much about having an LGBT character for representation's sake. I'm much more interested in what outfits and styles the devs will give them. I would love to see an androgynous character the most for that reason
2 -
You were the guy who committed last. What happend to your post?
0 -
But then again, if it truely doesn't matter, why do we need it?
1 -
Why do we need to exclude it? It feels forced to exclude it when heterosexual relationships are already in the game.
1 -
We don’t need it. But the devs want to be inclusive so we will get it.
2 -
I'm just saying this is why there's an argument, it's the same thing but reversed on both sides because it works both ways, we will never have everyone on one side
1 -
It doesn't work both ways, though, because one side already has their representation. It's only non-heterosexuals that do not have representation, and flimsy arguments like yours are being used to try to stop that representation.
3 -
Where have BHVR mentioned LGBT? Or is this just another theory that we come up with before every new killer/survivor?? I'm really lost on where this idea has come from ...
2 -
From what I can gather BHVR has mentioned in the past that they want to include characters that are LGBT. People are speculating that they include a LGBT character because of the teasers color. It matches the color of the bisexual flag.
3 -
Thankyou
0 -
they have confirmed that they will no longer explicitly exclude anything LGBT from the game. That statement was made via Twitter in June last year.
chapters are worked on/planned at least 9 month in advance so now is the time when we actually could see the result of this (considering they have started work on it around that time)
and yeah the new teaser might be interpreted as being LGBT for various reasons (colors, overall aesthetic theme, the way that persona tweets, their model)
3 -
"But this is were good writing comes in and BHVR has shown to be competent writers who can handle this issue well. " I have literally no idea what you are basing this of fof and this is personally one of my biggest fears given their awful track record. Im also worried that at this point, we know SO little about the killer, and this is up front. Im super worried its going to be a big flashy "WE SUPPORT YOU SEE" with no actual care for the character or that it is an organic part of their back story. The biggest problem with LGBT characters is that they are LGBT characters. They should just be characters who are part of the LGBT. If "GAY" is a character trait, its being done wrong. Identity and sexual preferences should be treated as mundanely as hair color or clothes preference. Obviously it means much more to them, and you can touch on that and get into that, but it is a sign of good writing that this intrinsic part of the character isnt the entirety of the character
3 -
Have you never read the lore for the characters or the archives? They have good writers and you can tell overtime that they have gotten even better.
Like seriously read the lore from the original survivors and killers and read the lore from New Survivors and killers. You'll see it's vastly different.
1 -
looking at all the backstories of the characters what would make you think the devs would create a character whose only trait would be being LGBT?
and even if it is a main trait of them: that would kind of be realistic as well, while not everybody of the LGBT community might feel the same way, there are also many who do live their life around the fact that they are queer. They may participate in parades, wear those fab clothes and only really socialize with other people of the LGBT community.
I don’t think and i don’t hope the devs will include such a character, at least not as the first char. But why should they be restricted to not create such a char if they wanted to?
2 -
I'm really not, I'm just pointing stuff out, the only issue I have is I want them to implement the sexuality into like the lore of like how it shaped the person the way they did or something like that, I don't want just a side note of saying "oh by the way, this guy is non-heterosexual"
1 -
It's just wierd to me the amount of "I don't care so NO DON'T ADD REPRESENTATION!!!" that has been going on. Either you don't care, or you're a bit of a closeted homophobe. Not really much middle ground.
It's not like there's any additional work adding an LGBT+ character, either, in fact it's almost easier. The trope of a straight couple being torn apart had lost much of its charm, but a queer couple still has a teensy bit more pop-culture mileage before the pitchforks and torches come out.
5 -
Short answer? We don't. Just like we don't need different cosmetics, backstories, or literally anything beyond a controllable character. We have those things because some people want it.
Long answer? Whether or not it matters is more of a subjective thing rather than objective (so I admit I could've phrased what I said a little better). So when someone says it doesn't matter, why does that particular person care? Why should they oppose it? There are plenty of people who think it does matter, so of course that group would be happy if it was included. On the flip side, those who claim it doesn't matter should be unaffected by it. So what does dbd have to lose by adding an LGBT character?
I'm a straight white man - if they add an LGBT character I'll gain nothing beyond another option to play as, but I understand there are many people who would really like it which is why I'm for it
5 -
As a trans woman whose been dealing with awful representation of LGBT in media for a long time, that sounds horrendous... Thats just really offensive and a huge problem with bad, token representation
0 -
But why?
if there is different kind of representation you actually represent humanity. Straight people can be represented positively and negatively as well.
i agree that bad/negative representation should not be the only representation but why should LGBT+ representation be restricted to only ‚positive‘ representation while straight not? And who exactly defines what is actual positive and what is actual negative representation?
1 -
Caricatures of what a gay person is will always be "bad" representation because it isnt representation. You can have LGBT characters in media who are terrible people, but you can't present them as something they aren't without being self aware. You have characters like "shore leave" from the venture brothers who fits a specific flamboyant archetype. The character is grounded, and shown to be more than just gay however. It is made clear that the purpose of the character is meant to be an extreme, an outlandish example in an environment of extremes. Even then he isn't one dimensional. While his personality is a part of everything he does, its because its his personality. The things he is capable of make him an asset in the environment and his relationships with the other characters are what define him. This is an example of how a character can be very "flamboyant" and "wear those fab clothes" and still be well rounded. But even then this character isnt just doing "gay" things. They dont only "participate in parades" and "socialize with other people of the LGBT community." I dont even know what you mean by this? You think the LGBT is like a box? That you are an outcast by design? It just seems like you don't even understand what that means, let alone the difficulty with LGBT representation in media.
Stereotypes make LGBT one thing. They fit in their bubble, and thats it. Its just a facet of who they are. Its a piece of their sexual preference, its saying you are accepting of others who do not share the same identity as yourself. If being "gay" is a character trait why isnt being straight? What would that imply? What is a "straight" trait? Are they someone, anyone who doesn't dress nice or fix their hair? Are they bad at picking up social cues and awkward? Are they a "normal" human being? Being homosexual, or having a non-normative identity can never be the only trait of a character, because it isnt a trait. That would be like having a character whose only defining trait is they have dark hair, or that they are left handed. You can't build a character's personality off of something like this. They can need to address the issues of their identity, of course, but that isnt the same thing. That would be explorative, instead of exploitative.
So my problem here, is that we know almost nothing about the killer. We know they are some type of Asian Technology Demon? Or something similar. Being homosexual can be a part of their backstory in some way, sure. Maybe they were killed for a forbidden romance, okay sure the "lesbians always die" trope is overdone but fine thats workable. But why is this the first thing we hear? Why is the only defining trait we have from them that shes LGBT? If they wanted representation, just treat it like its normal. Release the character, their backstory, let us see it for ourselves. I dont want to see a token character, that isnt representation. We need characters, well rounded, defined characters, who also happen to be LGBT. That is representation, that is shining a positive light on the topic
0 -
I definitely agree that representation that is shining a positive light on the topic is needed and should be the way they start inclusion. So their first LGBT char should be what you are describing. But down the line there might be multiple LGBT chars in DbD and I don’t see why they should restrict themselves as much. They don’t have to restrict themselves with heterosexual characters after all.
why can’t being LGBT/some stereotype be a defining/dominant trait? There are people that define themselves like this and live in their LGBT bubble and they do have stereotypical behavior or appearance. I am not saying that every LGBT person does this or even many. But there are some. And it is not wrong to be gay and to have some kind of typical gay stereotype. And why should such a lifestyle not be represented anywhere? That doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have other personality traits either. And again, I agree this shouldn’t be the first or only available representation. (Maybe trait is the wrong word for what I am describing but I hope you get what I mean)
i am just saying there should be diverse representation of LGBT, there is not only one way to do it, otherwise you are showing a false picture and don’t represent the reality.
also we haven’t heard if the character is LGBT. We have some teasers that show some personality and appearance of the character but we don’t have any clue what sexuality they have.
2 -
Can someone link someone saying they're against such a character? I haven't seen anyone actually say that or anything close to it.
0 -
I explained in pretty great detail how we've been dealing with this terrible misuse of LGBT consistently. This wouldn't be "one example" this would be another misuse in a long line of token gay characters, or characters hyper exemplifying gay "stereotypes". This is like if a writer only wrote black women as a bit on the heavier side, incredibly sassy, and always sayin "oh baby lemme cook for you suga', you're thin as a rail".
There isn't good representation of the community, and it really feels like you only see LGBT as the stereotypes...
0 -
I explicitly said i don’t want only stereotypical representation.
i just said that diverse representation would be a good thing. If you have 10 different LGBT chars and none of them would show any kind of stereotypical trait that would feel forced. I am not saying every LGBT char should have stereotypical traits. And especially not the first
2 -
To me it is one of those topical subjects people seem to want to latch onto for attention.
I don't care about the lore at all but there are people who do. The difference is that the main thing that needs to function properly is the game running smoothly everything else can be as botched as possible.
I would say the game has put itself trapped in a bit of a corner. Get it right and everyone baring those who don't understand the emphasis on a made up characters sexuality (perfectly valid) will be happy.
Get it wrong, then it could get ugly. Outrage will come like a hungry pack of wolves and deal a blow to the game whether they did a good job or not .
We shouldn't pretend the playerbase and the people in the community are perfect, in fact many are thirsty for drama and don't underestimate people's desire to cause a ruckus.
I think the main thing that needs to be addressed is that if people don't like a LGBT character then instead of harassing people who disagree with you, instead understand the person's concerns because it will become something very divisive and overblown otherwise.
I'm holding back my opinion until whatever comes out of this upcoming chapter materialises.
One standard I live by is that you should always allow someone to offer their opinion even if it's something you disagree with.
Respect is very rare nowadays and those who are willing to listen to others are the ones who prevent this turning into different groups of people and opinions fighting over something which doesn't even matter.
There's a lot going on in the world and if you're getting worked up by this then I honestly think you're wasting your time doing something with no good outcome/return.
Do something new, learn a new skill or just think about the things which make you happy instead of worrying about things which you can't single handedly change.
1 -
Apparently there have been a couple of posts that were straight up transphobic/homophobic, but they got deleted. I haven't seen any actual screenshots so I'm not certain. The rest of the threads that are up are just the same 6 people bickering over speculation.
1 -
Yea but the fact that your only idea of a "stereotypical gay trait" is a "flamboyant guy who only hangs out with LGBT people", makes me think you don't know enough about the community to know what is representation. That alone is kinda really offensive. Im not trying to take jabs at you here, thats just how this seems to me. Like what was great about the old system was when someone had a head cannon on who was gay or straight or bi in game, that was it. We have enough information to think they may be that, which is that they were human people. Anyone could be anything, you don't need some rainbow leotard and a flag to be gay. If they want to start labeling people then it should be casually a part of their lore, maybe from the stuff we learn through the archives. It should just be another fact about them, there is no person who is being represented well if their only trait is a stereotype, full stop
0 -
I think the main thing that needs to be addressed is that if people don't like a LGBT character then instead of harassing people who disagree with you, instead understand the person's concerns because it will become something very divisive and overblown otherwise.
Their concerns are a double-standard. Their concerns only seem to pop up when it comes to LGBT characters. For example (I'm paraphrasing the arguments I've seen):
I just want them to do it right.
So does everyone, for everything. This has never been an issue big enough to prevent inclusion with literally any other content in DbD, so why is it an issue with LGBT characters?
I'm worried they might get it wrong.
Again, everyone has this concern, for everything. And, again, this has never been an argument that was used to stop, say, Myers getting into the game, so why is it an issue now?
If they get it wrong, it will piss off a lot of people.
Again, this happens with virtually everything. The creation of the game alone made a lot of people upset, yet I didn't see anyone saying this to stop it from being made.
I just don't feel like it fits in DbD/horror.
Neither do bunny onesies, yet here we are. I didn't see anyone making this much of a fuss over those, or Dwelf.
Sexuality has no place in DbD/horror.
Nurse has had a husband since she was released, which was years ago. Nobody complained about sexuality back then. Also, sexuality has been a theme in slasher films since forever.
It's not important.
Some people felt Shape being added to the game wasn't important (me, for example). This is purely opinion-based and not even a real concern.
It feels forced because it's unnecessary.
Everything is "forced", if you think like this.
It's going to shove homosexuality down our throats.
Legion had an entire tome that's shoving heterosexuality down our throats. No complaints.
It's just pandering.
So is the inclusion of licensed characters. That's literally the point of new (and existing) content, to pander to more people so they buy the game.
There are too many people asking for it.
Yes, and apparently it's a bad thing that the devs give players what they want. Oddly enough, this wasn't an issue when all those licensed chapters were requested and added to the game.
There are too many gay people in media already, in proportion to the population.
This can be applied to different groups; for example, white heterosexual men, who are ubiquitous in media. Also, like everything else, this isn't an issue when it comes to other groups being added to the game, just LGBT.
Please, show me someone with a real concern (meaning one that doesn't also apply to things that are already in the game) and I will gladly debate it with that person. Until then, know that we have taken the high road over and over again, heard all the concerns, and all we've found is that these concerns only pop up when it comes to LGBT characters.
4 -
Like what was great about the old system was when someone had a head cannon on who was gay or straight or bi in game, that was it.
You mean the old system that lasted 2 months and 4 days after release? Because that's how long we went without any characters having sexual orientations.
1 -
That was just one example. I don’t see it like That at all.
and it was never possible to think that Nurse was lesbian, or Oni was trans. Same with Felix, David, Frank, Julie. To an extent even Wraith and Ace. All have had confirmed heterosexual relationships. And again, just equal treatment to that would be enough.
i personally wouldn’t mind stereotypical representation ALONG with non-stereotypical later down the line is all I am trying to say. Because having stereotypical traits is also nothing entirely bad. But I am not asking or demanding anything but equal treatment and not explicit exclusion of any form of representation.
3 -
they have always said to make your own head cannons in regards to these
0 -
Own headcanons are still possible with LGBT+ inclusion. Nothing changes there.
2
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
