An FOV slider would make this game much better
Before everyone tells me "just use Shadowborn", I get motion sick while playing Killer and this is not just a me problem. So telling me to just run Shadowborn is like tying colourblind settings to a perk, then telling colourblind people to "just run that". We have colourblind settings now (thank you!), so I think having an option to increase FOV would also be a much-needed accessibility option.
As for Shadowborn, you could quite literally rework it to be anything -- even the worst, most useless perk in the game -- and everyone would still be happy, because its former use would have been fulfilled by an FOV slider.
(Also, to the people who apparently think it would be unfair for killers to have this, do you really want to die on the hill of "Shadowborn OP"? I think we can all agree that's not a good position to defend.)
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The issue is that if there's a slider for FoV, every killer will just set it to maximum.
So what's the point in having a slider? Just set it to the maximum they feel it should be.
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I mean, I think it's a much better option to let people choose the FOV they want. Some killers might prefer 87 (current default), 90 (industry standard), 102 (current with shadowborn) or 120 (max that Unreal Engine 4 will allow afaik). Most killers will probably set it to maximum, true, but it's good to have that choice.
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Just use Shadowborn.
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It's 2021 man, there should be settings for that. Not having a perk for it, it's really a waste of a perk slot.
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This is bait, right?
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Kinda, but i really think there shouldn't be a FOV slider in this game. It would be funny though if they added one and its maximum was 87 🤣
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I mean... there's no reason not to have an FOV slider in DBD, at least for killers. Having to use a perk slot for something that belongs in the options menu is bad game design imho, and can easily be rectified.
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But that's how the game was designed, there's a reason why killers play in first person while survivors do it in third person.
FOV sliders belong to games in which all players experience and play the game the same way, like Rocket League.
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"That's how the game was designed" isn't exactly an argument when I'm asking the devs to change an aspect of game design. And as for the second part, see what I said about motion sickness and accessibility.
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Yeah I don't see why we need shadow born for it at this point, competitive play is an excuse because COD and Apex Legends has FOV sliders, why can't dbd have the same?
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Honestly? Yes. Add an FoV slider.
Will people having a higher FoV have an Objective advantage? Yes. But there are people who cannot play due to the terrible killer fov, and they shouldn't be forced to run a perk to make the game playable.
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"Increasing your FOV gives you a massive advantage."
So... Shadowborn OP. Got it.
Edit: This game is balanced around chases and map pressure, not something as tiny as the killer being able to see slightly more at a time. Stealth will barely be affected at all, and that's... literally the only thing increased FOV would affect in the first place. So no, increasing your FOV does not give you a massive advantage, unless you count "I'm not literally throwing up trying to play this game" as an advantage.
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Alright, let's take your logic and apply it to other areas of DBD.
Sound should not be something you can alter in the options menu. The game is balanced around sound, right? What's that? You wanted to increase your in-game volume? Oops, gotta unlock a perk for that. Oh, you wanted colourblind settings? Oopsie poopsie! There's a perk for that. Wow, you're one of those people who really, really wants to play the game at 120 FPS! Have I got the perk for you! Wanna play the game in 4K? Well, my friend, you're in luck!
There's a perk for that.
Do you see why this logic is flawed? FOV belongs in the settings menu; this is a basic element of game design that, respectfully, BHVR should have added a while ago. The majority of modern first-person games contain an FOV slider for this very reason. No shade on the dev team -- this is my feedback, and the feedback of many other people in the DBD community. Having an FOV slider would not suddenly make killers OP, even Nurse or Huntress. It definitely shouldn't be tied to a perk.
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I think that BHVR wanted to retain control on this. There's a reason that they've set it at whatever they have (87 degrees I think), and that you need perks (things you need specifically to benefit you) to enhance it. Clearly, the angle of view is meant to be a restriction or limitation on the killer. They intended for the FoV to be this small; if they did add a slider, it would only be even narrower.
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causes clipping issues, killers used to be able to mash their faces into walls and corners to see through with their old 90° fov so it was decreased to 87° to mitigate the problem
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None of the things you mentioned are comparable because they don't impact balance in the same way. Raising volume, increasing frame rate, increasing refresh rate, etc. are beneficial to players on both sides and only offer marginal benefit. Increasing FOV is a straight killer buff, though, because survivors already have a third-person camera and therefore don't benefit nearly as much from an increased FOV. It also provides a much more substantial advantage than these other settings / performance changes.
Okay, first off, I used to play this game on a laptop and increasing frame rate absolutely gives a huge benefit. If you think raising the volume only provides marginal benefit, all I can say is that sound is almost as important to a killer as sight is. It kicks in whenever you don't have direct line of sight on a nearby survivor, and it's the only method you have of tracking where they are. As for FOV increase being a straight killer buff, why is giving killers a slight quality of life buff a bad thing?
More problematic still, there are also very real reasons why someone cannot raise the FOV despite it giving a competitive advantage. For example, it substantially increases GPU load to raise FOV, so only people with current gen consoles and decent PCs would be able to take advantage of the increased FOV while still maintaining a playable frame rate. Everyone else (PS4, Xbox One, lower end PCs) would suddenly be at more of a disadvantage. I feel the devs should be striving to close this gap over time, not increase it further.
You literally just said that frame rate only offers a marginal benefit, so you contradict yourself here. And this is quite literally saying it's unfair to have a better gaming rig than other players -- I'm sure you're not actually making that argument, but that's where this leads. You are implying that people being able to play the game with better performance is unfair.
Edit: This logic also leads to the conclusion of "let's introduce a perk that allows players to change the visual quality of their game." I suggest rethinking this one.
Performance aside, though, this would require significant balance changes in order to even back out. Huntress melee hatchets and Billy back revs would now be extremely easy to land. Nurse would no longer have any chance of losing track of survivors while on fatigue and would have a much easier time to land hits while blinking. Visual obstacles like the corn on Coldwind would no longer be as useful for survivors. Killer tracking would generally improve. Survivor skill ceiling would be substantially lowered, as 360s would now be useless, window techs would now be impossible to pull off, feigning like you're running past the killer as they break a pallet would no longer work, etc. Spine Chill would now be absolutely trivial to counter. Shadowborn and M&A would need reworks. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Several things to unpack here.
- If a Huntress gets close enough to melee hatchet you, then you messed up. End of.
- If a Billy gets close enough to backrev you, then you were out of position.
- Nurse can still hear survivors moving around in fatigue, and as I've explained, sound is almost an important as sight in DBD. Her having a slightly increased FOV during fatigue would not change much at all, and it certainly wouldn't make her overpowered.
- I don't know if you've noticed, but even with Shadowborn, corn is still corn. And if you're relying on corn to run the killer around, then you need to take advantage of tiles more often.
- You say "killer tracking would improve" as if this is a bad thing. Tracking isn't even the reason I'm advocating for an FOV slider; myself and many others are physically unable to play the game without it because it makes us sick to do so.
- First off, "360s would now be useless" is a gross exaggeration. Second off, spinning a killer is nowhere near the skill ceiling for survivor, because the killer is the one who literally just needs to move their mouse to hit you. If you spin a killer, it's not because you're good, it's because the killer messed up.
- Window teching is another example of "if this works the killer messed up". Literally all you do to counter this as killer is moonwalk for half a second to see if they tried it. Killers having more FOV wouldn't change this.
- Spine Chill being "absolutely trivial to counter" is a questionable assertion. Please explain.
- I addressed Shadowborn needing a rework in my original post, and with M&A, you would literally just need to drop the FOV increase outside of chase. Job done. Its primary function is the terror radius decrease.
The devs could certainly rebalance the game around a higher FOV, but given the other glaring issues still in the game it would still make no sense for them to prioritize this even if performance weren't a factor. If you would like to get some in-game benefits while also reducing your motion sickness, Shadowborn would be a great option.
Remember what I said here?
Oh, you wanted colourblind settings? Oopsie poopsie! There's a perk for that. Wow, you're one of those people who really, really wants to play the game at 120 FPS! Have I got the perk for you! Wanna play the game in 4K? Well, my friend, you're in luck!
Edit: Plus, it's worth considering that other people get motion sickness from an FOV that is too high, myself included. If a FOV slider was added, then, people would still have to choose between motion sickness and an in-game disadvantage. So, it's a problem that won't go away whether or not there's a slider.
I hope you realize that this problem has quite literally never come up in any game that has an FOV slider. You can adjust your FOV so that you can play comfortably and not get sick. You're making a mountain out of a molehill with the "FOV gives you an in-game advantage" argument, because -- as unpacked above -- the benefits you gain are negligible. The main factor here is comfort, not competitive viability.
FOV in other games is an option in the settings menu. DBD should follow their example.
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I'm aware that BHVR intended for the FOV to be this small; that's how they coded it. I'm asking them to reconsider that decision, because it's bad from a game design standpoint. As mentioned earlier, it'd be like tying game volume to a perk and just telling people to run that -- I'm sure we can agree that it would be silly.
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Shadowborn increases your FOV to 102 degrees, and you can't see through walls with it -- this problem used to exist, absolutely, but it doesn't anymore. I have mashed my face into many walls while running Shadowborn and haven't gotten any useful information out of it.
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Well, they must have encoded it as such for a reason. The killer is generally to have less situational awareness than survivors; they have third person POV, we have first person.
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Shadowborn does not give you a "massive advantage" it just makes things easier to see. For someone with motion sickness this can cause serious eye strain which can dissuade one from playing killer all together, as Shadowborn is essentially a requirement. Shadowborn is not a massive advantage in comparison to literally any other killer perk.
For other games with FOV sliders, not everyone turns them to max and are fine with the normal settings. An FOV slider would be perfectly fine.
Also, 360s are not a core part of the game. If you are solely relying on 360s to escape, you're probably looping wrong. Killers can still be 360ed with Shadowborn, just a bit more difficult.
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Of course they did so for a reason. I'm saying that increasing the FOV to a point where some people don't get motion sick is something they should consider doing, because it would improve the overall quality of players' experience.
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You could condense this post into the following points:
- "More FOV = substantial advantage."
- "DBD is balanced around killers having 87 degrees' FOV."
- "It's not fair if some people can handle higher FOVs, because they have an advantage over people like me who can't."
First point: Having a few extra degrees on your screen is technically an advantage, yes, but there are three main things wrong with this statement.
- Having more FOV is not a substantial advantage at all in a game like DBD. It makes it slightly easier to track survivors who are on the edges of your vision. It does not directly affect gameplay other than this -- you don't go faster, gens don't go slower, survivors don't go slower, you don't break pallets faster, you don't vault windows faster, you don't pick people up faster, it saves you zero time. Fire Up is more beneficial a perk than Shadowborn for people who don't get motion sick, because it directly affects gameplay. Being able to see slightly more does not; you will not be carried by Shadowborn, nor will it actually do anything for you in terms of time, chasing, stall or pressure.
- In other games, including BF4, FOV being in the options menu is not a problem and I genuinely do not understand why it matters so much to you. Sure, you're technically at a disadvantage because you can't increase your FOV to the same level that others can. But I hope you realize that you're much better off than people who have to dedicate an entire perk slot to not feeling sick. At least you can still use your entire kit in BF4.
- You contradict yourself here: "In the vast majority of other mutliplayer games both sides have the same perspective, so changing the max FOV doesn't also have balance implications." In BF4, all players have the same perspective; it's an FPS game. And yet you brought it up as a problem that other players can handle higher FOVs.
Second point: DBD is balanced around two main things - chase and overall map pressure. FOV does not affect either of these things. That's why Shadowborn is barely even considered a perk by most people. If a survivor has enough distance on you to make it to a pallet, you could have 360 degrees of vision and they'd still make it to that pallet. If a survivor is doing a gen and you're on the other side of the map, a higher FOV won't help you interrupt them. If a survivor with dark cosmetics is blending into a bush on Dead Dawg Saloon, having a higher FOV won't even help with that. They'll still be just as hard to see.
Third point: I mostly mentioned this earlier, but I hope you realize how this goes both ways. People who need Shadowborn are sacrificing an entire perk slot. You're sacrificing a few extra degrees on the sides of your screen. And I guarantee you wouldn't even notice the difference, because you would be happy playing at your ideal FOV, and we would be happy playing at ours. Win-win; the supposed unfairness introduced by an FOV slider is extremely preferable to the actual unfairness caused by having to run a perk to not feel sick playing DBD.
Regarding the points about sound and frame rate, I lumped them in with the balance point (#2), since that was the overall topic they were tied to.
Edit: You also contradicted yourself by saying that 30 Hz is just fine for DBD, but some consoles wouldn't be able to run the game well at higher FOVs. Also, the simple solution to that is to not crank the FOV slider all the way up. You barely lose anything at all from that, especially not in DBD. (BF4 is irrelevant because it's an entirely different game, so it's a false analogy.)
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Btw, I would be fine if the FOV cap was 120 or something, or even 110. Unreal Engine 4 doesn't allow you past 120 anyway, which is fair. I'm sure we can at least agree on 105, since Shadowborn is 102 and that's sufficient to not feel sick for me.
Sorry if I've come across as aggressive here; I was admittedly a little frustrated but ultimately, it's a game. We both want it to be as balanced and fair as possible, we just have slightly different ideas on what a balanced DBD might look like.
I 100% agree that there are more pressing issues in DBD right now than FOV, like actual game balance and performance (especially on consoles), but that doesn't mean it's not a problem that needs to be addressed -- because it is. It'd also be a pretty easy change to make, since altering FOV already happens (M&A, Shadowborn, etc.) which means the code to change FOV already exists.
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This game is also about hiding from the killer. The killer's lower field of view is therefore a critically important component of the game.
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Unlinke other games FOV in this game is tied to balance, one of the core mechanics is that survivors have full view of their surrounding while killers are very focused on a small area. Unfortunately a FOV slider would change that balance.
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I don't think the FoV limitation so bad that it degrades from player experience. Of course, it's a nuance between having a fair game and letting killers have fun (doubling gen repair time would improve the killer experience, in terms of fun, but it would be ridiculously unbalanced and unfair), but even then the kill rate for killers is reasonably high. I actually find shadowborne quite annoying; it's like looking through a wide angle lens all the time.
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Hard no.
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- Shadowborn has two uses, both of which actually do save you time during the match. One is for tracking. A substantially wider FOV increases the chance of you noticing stealthy survivors, scratch marks, etc. that you otherwise wouldn't have seen.
You get the same advantage from looking around as you move. Shadowborn doesn't change that, it just makes the game bearable for people with motion sickness.
- This gets you into chases faster and thereby reduces time until your next hook.
See above point, and Shadowborn doesn't actually help you in the chase. 360-ing and window teching are extremely niche maneuvers that you don't need a higher FOV to help with at all.
- The second is for better performance in the chase. For most killers it's a useful but not game-changing benefit in the chase.
drops pallet on you ah yes vaults window I can see how holds W Shadowborn helps doubles back for a mindgame in a chase
Higher FOV does not give you any substantial advantage during the vast majority of the case.
- You're better able to counter 360s and various techs with a wider FOV. Not only is this useful against skilled players, but it also effectively lowers survivors' skill ceiling, which is not a good thing in my opinion.
You're also better able to counter 360s and various techs by moving your mouse to look around. Should killers be forced to lunge forwards and not turn?
- Some killers, like Huntress and Nurse, get an even bigger benefit from a wider FOV. Nurse can usually still see survivors while looking down on fatigue, which lowers the risk of losing survivors. It also gives her better visibility right after blinking, which helps a lot with the split-second decision of where and if to swing.
Okay. So? That's a valid tradeoff for people being able to play the game without feeling motion sick.
- Huntress benefits primarily from the much simpler melee hatchets.
I'd imagine melee hatchets aren't too hard for a decent Huntress.
- Faster chases also reduce the time between hooks. Both of these effects in turn translate into pressure. This is exactly why base kit Shadowborn (or an FOV slider with a max FOV of 102) would be a solid buff to killers, and one that would likely need to be balanced out by some other changes.
This is the biggest mountain I've ever seen anyone make out of a molehill. Every single point you brought up can be achieved simply through moving your mouse slightly more. A higher FOV would barely affect the game at all, and it certainly wouldn't affect survivor experience to the point of requiring other changes.
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If you're hiding around a corner, or in a bush with dark cosmetics, a higher FOV won't help you. The FOV is not a critically important component of the game at all; it's a small quality-of-life feature that should be in the options menu, not tied to a perk slot.
I'll give an example of why this line of thinking is dangerous. Do you know why it took so long for us to get colourblind settings? If I remember correctly, wasn't it something to do with a certain dev thinking it would give people an unfair advantage?
FOV is an accessibility thing, not a balance thing. And even if it does have a slight impact on balance, that is absolutely 100% worth it for people with motion sickness to be able to play the game without wasting a perk slot or screwing with their resolution (something that is not possible with all graphics cards).
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I keep seeing this argument, and it's just not true. It falls apart when you consider the following:
- The core of DBD is its chase, which FOV -- contrary to some of the assertions in this thread -- does not affect to any significant level.
- Having a higher FOV barely even has an impact on stealth, because if you're behind a wall or in a bush with dark cosmetics, FOV will not help you in the slightest. It doesn't make your screen brighter, it doesn't give you wallhacks, all it does is make it so you can see further than before. And if a survivor is trying to hide to the left or right of the killer without any cover, they're doing it badly.
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- I don't think the FoV limitation so bad that it degrades from player experience.
I... did you read my initial post at all?
- Of course, it's a nuance between having a fair game and letting killers have fun (doubling gen repair time would improve the killer experience, in terms of fun, but it would be ridiculously unbalanced and unfair)
There is a huge difference between "Give us an FOV slider!" and "Make gens take 160 seconds!". That's like comparing "Can we have colourblind settings?" to "Can we have wallhacks?"
- but even then the kill rate for killers is reasonably high.
Sure, but this has nothing to do with kill rate, or balance at all. It's an accessibility issue.
- I actually find shadowborne quite annoying; it's like looking through a wide angle lens all the time.
That's fine! That's why it's a slider - you can set it to the degree you want.
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Sorry, but your arguments are not valid.
It is not about hiding in the bushes with dark cosmetics. It is about hiding on the side of the killer, moving away from the eyes of the killer when the killer walks beside you, etc. With a greater FOV the killer would find you. With shadowborn or "monitor and abuse" you can more easily spot survivors on the edges of your vision, so FOV makes a difference.
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You can't discount it as nothing though.
High FOV is a competitive advantage when chasing a survivor. Naturally, there is no reason to set your fov below the maximum.
What you're indirectly asking is for a perk to be added to killer base kit.
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Yes! Give us more fov, because the current one is garbage.
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Some killers can do it on temple go on the stairs and jam you face into a wall mainly with blight you can see through walls
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Sorry, but your arguments are not valid. I addressed them here:
And if a survivor is trying to hide to the left or right of the killer without any cover, they're doing it badly.
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What I'm directly asking for is an FOV slider, which in most other modern games is a setting in the options menu.
Also, higher FOV provides a disadvantage for Killers as well. You have a wider angle to be blinded by.
It's still kind of surreal to me that people still unironically think having a higher FOV gives you a serious advantage whatsoever. It's like how people used to argue that exhaustion pausing in a chase would make exhaustion perks useless - if this change was actually in the game, next to nobody would be complaining. Fire Up gives more of an advantage than Shadowborn, ffs.
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Actually, you know what - given the amazing lengths some people are going to in order to "prove" that having an FOV slider would be unfair, I've realized I don't need to bother with arguments around balance. This isn't a balance issue.
It's an accessibility issue, like colourblind settings. Opposing an FOV slider because it supposedly gives killers some huge advantage is just as ridiculous as opposing colourblind settings because someone might misuse them and get an advantage. It's a bad hill to die on, because even if you do get an advantage from an FOV slider, that is 100% worth it to make up for the unfairness of having to waste a perk to not feel sick in this game.
There is no valid reason why there shouldn't be an FOV slider in this game, balance-related or otherwise.
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It's a balance issue. Just because you've said otherwise doesn't change anything. It's not about it being unfair or not rather it being a net buff to killer where the game has been built around the same base mechanics of low fov. You're asking for a base kit buff to all killers.
It's not accessability. Sit further back from your monitor if you're getting motion sickness. Your peripheral vision should be telling your inner ear fluid that you're not moving.
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All of this has been addressed in the thread already. Read up. That doesn't work.
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