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Hatch needs to go
Someone please come up with an idea to replace the ######### hatch
2 out of the last 3 games today both rank 1 killers, so the scene is pretty much set.
both times slugged for a 4k, first time l bled out because my fellow survivor was a hatch #########.
second picked up at 3:50 ish died on hook because also my fellow survivor was a hatch #########.
l don’t want to crawl around on the ground 4 minutes while some sweat lord killer wants a 4k or some piece of ######### survivor wants the hatch.
We didn’t finish the gens so why does some hiding in a bush survivor get to escape.
take it back to how it was if you want a hatch. where we have to do a certain amount of gens for it to appear or whatever it was
and if the survivor wants to take the game hostage have his aura revealed to the killer every 10 seconds until he does do something.
The killer beat me, l just want out of the game.
Long rant my apologies.
Comments
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My memory is foggy(wink, wink) why exactly was the hatch implemented in the first place?
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Just remove the hatch and start the EGC once there is only 1 survivor left.
Problem solved.
No boring slugging for 4k.
No boring camping the hatch and hoping that the other survivor gets found first, when only 2 survivors are left.
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I don't think this is hatches fault, but more so sluggings fault. A "Give Up" option after like a minute or so on the ground would fix this. This was worse before the hatch since survivors would just hide around doing nothing after everyone else is dead.
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Ah yes, remove the hatch and now instead of attempting to find it the last survivor will crouch around the map for 40 minutes just to be petty, maybe attempting a few gen repairs here or there so that they don't get accused of holding the game hostage WHAT AN AMAZING SOLUTION!
17 -
Thens what’s your solution Einstein
lnstead of being a smartarse give us a sample of your genius
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Change your mindset to where a survivor escaping through hatch doesn't ruin your week and act like the survivor has personally mugged you and left you homeless after having stolen your dog just for escaping, and suddenly there's no problem.
Hatch is the best possible solution now that you can close it, and have been able to for years now. Only thing that has to change is a key escape.
21 -
Hatch needs a rework, not a removal
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Why would I need to change my mind set.
l shouldn’t have to wait 4 minutes in a game once l have lost to exit it, because two other players are looking to win it.
I should be able to leave that match and let them play it out.
lf this was a random 1 in 20 game thing l wouldn’t have a problem, but at high ranks especially with rank 1 killers it’s almost a formality.
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You have just proven why you need to change your mindset lol. Hatch doesn't need a change, just keys do, because it's already a fair mechanic.
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what’s the fair mechanic for the person crawling on the ground for 4 minutes?
l guess we will have to agree to disagree.
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There are perks to help counter slugging, you can literally see the aura of the 4th survivor and can crawl to them to sandbag or get help, or you wait around to see what happens.
It's a video game, I wouldn't get too hung up on it.
5 -
Key need to go, not hatch
2 -
Hatch is fun, I like it.
I like being able to let a survivor go if one of their team mates DC's or dies early.
2 -
If you get rid of the hatch people would camp one of the Exit Gates instead of the hatch and then you get slugged for the 4º kill while the Killer searches for whoever is hidding waiting for you to die and EGC to start, it would make no difference.
11 -
Pretty much this.
Removing hatch or keys won't make survivors who aren't team players become team players, it'll just take the fun out of the 1v1 last Survivor alive scenarios. Personally I like trying to find and close the hatch before the last Survivor, it keeps the end fresh and stops it from just being a foregone conclusion.
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Yeah if they addressed how much slugging the killer should actually be able to do when there is only 2 players left, that would solve the issue. Because the killer would be forced to pick up the survivor at a given point... or the entity would be forced to pick them up off the ground.
1 -
"Someone please come up with an idea to replace the [BAD WORD] hatch"
I suggest "the window". It does exactly the same but it's a window instead.
7 -
The Magic number for the hatch is 5. Be it any combination of Survivors to Generators ratio. So I guarantee you, if there isn't at least some generators done, that hatch isn't going to spawn until there's only one Survivor left.
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We may be into something here...
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The main problem I find with the hatch is survivors using keys to bypass their objective. In the last 5 games, I had two key escapes — One was a single and another was a double SWF escape.
Survivors may say, "They needed to complete some generators to spawn it in" but they don't consider how fast generators can go. We already know 5 generators can be done with an effective team, but with a key, we're talking about preventing 3-4 generators from getting completed.
I'm playing as the Nurse and it's still challenging to stop survivors with keys, they often focus on generators. Inexperienced groups usually get destroyed by my Devour Hope + Thrill combo since they ignore bones, but experienced groups can get at least 3 generators done and escape before my Devour Hope + Thrill combo overwhelms them.
All in all, it's mainly keys that give the hatch a bad name, but to be fair, if we remove the hatch, we have to make exit gates spawn identical to Léry's and Hawkin's Lab to prevent the gates from being too easy to patrol. 😁
2 -
Gens really fly like never before.
Keys are not only frustrating for killers, but for survivors too.
Yesterday I had a match as solo. All gens completed, I hadn't been hooked and went to rescue one camped guy. Turns out he had a key, and instantly used that key to escape with his friends while I got downed. (Hatch spawned close to the hook).
My reward for being altruistic.
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Even if everyone has a key the hatch wont spawn until 5 gens are done.
The only way for it it spawn sooner is with fewer Survivors alive, which means the gens will be going slower as there are fewer people fixing them.
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Who cares if generators are going slower when you can just bypass the remaining generators with a key?
I been on both sides, I've used keys and been on the receiving end of them as well, they are identical to pre-nerf mori and should be removed / reworked. In fact, anything that allows you to skip your objective should just be nerfed to the ground or have significant requirements.
Keys can reworked to do something different that doesn't include giving survivors potentially free escapes. Heck, make them stronger in other aspects, but the fact that they have no counterplay besides tunneling and using Franklin's, is a mistake. When I see a lobby full of flashlights, I'm not forced to use Lightborn because flashlights have reasonable counterplay — they can keep the killer on their toes, but keys are a whole different ball game since you have very little influence against them.
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to give the last survivor an hope to win
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"Who cares if generators are going slower when you can just bypass the remaining generators with a key?"
Yeah, that's not how keys work. Sorry.
Keys open the hatch. The hatch won't appear for a full team unless all 5 gens are done. I don't know why you don't seem to know that. If you are talking about after Survivors have started dying, perhaps you should have started by tunneling the person with the key, or hell, just bring Franklin's Demise, which solves the problem fairly neatly.
Just because you aren't good at counterplay for a specific item, doesn't mean the counterplay doesn't exist.
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Search for Hatch is one of my favorite activities. It really feels like a cat and mouse game, without taking into account the Killer and Survivor actions. I've been Killer trying to carry the Survivor to the Hatch, and they COMPLETELY miss my goodwill signals.
I've also been the final Survivor and tried to rapidly determine motive within seconds. Because some Killers will absolutely hook you of you struggle. It's a very intricate situation that relies on signals, and deciding if they're bluffs or not. It's kinda like end game poker- are you all in or do you keep bluffing? 🤔
1 -
Killers can lock the window, And then eat the Key to said Window so survivors can't use it. Killers Terror radius then changes to "Under pressure" by David Bowie and Queen and gets louder as the Boosted Hag main draws near
Seriously though Killers should be able to just eat keys, It would fix the key(Nailed it) issues and besides Clown needs a solid diet to stay in phenomenal shape after all
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Have been confused about it for too long, thanks dad
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I would say the hatch itself is a fair concept. When I play survivor I know how hard it is to open an exit gate when you're the final survivor as the killer will patrol the two exits which makes it nearly impossible to open in time. The hatch solves this problem as it gives the survivor an opportunity to make a quick escape, but it's also fair on the killer as they have just as much chance as the survivor of coming across it first and closing it.
Keys however are an entirely different conversation. No matter what side I play, I dread seeing a key when I'm in the lobby.
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"Yeah, that's not how keys work. Sorry."
That's how keys work, the formula for spawning in the hatch is: complete the generators equal to the number of survivors alive plus one more.
Spawning the Hatch
Just to break it down
- 4 Survivors: 5 Generators Done — All survivors escape
- 3 Survivors: 4 Generators Done — 3 survivors escape
- 2 Survivors: 3 Generators Done — 2 survivors escape
Don't see the problem? Okay, easy, let's try this. The game is balanced around survivors completing their objective, not half of it, not some of it. Nothing against you, but if you believe killers should stop survivors from completing 3 or more generators, you're being very unrealistic. Killers aren't supposed to destroy all survivors with 3 or more generators remaining, that's literally insane. If the killers were able to stop survivors with 3 or more generators, holy moly, killers would be OP and the game would be unplayable for the survivors.
Heck, even a Fog Whisper believe keys are ridiculous and look at how hard he was trying. Do you still think he didn't counterplay hard enough or are your eyes opened?
Anyways, you don't have to listen to me, I can just tell you why I believe you're wrong. What you do with it is up to you, but if this doesn't convince you, I don't know what will. 🤷♂️
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why are people complaining about the hatch when there are other annoyances in the game. like ummm Dead Hard. that needs to go.
and no I'm not pulling it out of thin air.
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Appeal to (false) authority isn't something that will convince me.
Let me go ahead and copy/paste the part from my last post you clearly didn't read.
If you are talking about after Survivors have started dying, perhaps you should have started by tunneling the person with the key, or hell, just bring Franklin's Demise, which solves the problem fairly neatly.
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That concludes our discussion, have a good day. 😁
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I think the hatch is fine. They just need to adjust gates to be more killer sided, because some of them spawn on opposite sides of the map, which is advantageous for the survivor who just failed to find hatch.. which is a survivor sided mechanic as well.
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As long as Franklin's Demise lets me slap keys out of hands, I'm ok with them.
I know, I'll have to turn in my "Killer main" card that I earned defending NOED and tunneling, but I just don't see an issue. I've had a couple of games where 4e through the hatch, but that's because I failed to protect the gens so they got 5. I've had even more where 1 or 2 get out via hatch, but I'm not so precious over the 4k that I'm going to let that upset me. Now if I see a key I run good old Frankie Ds, and go for the key holder first so they don't get any warning it's coming. Does it work all the time? Of course not, nothing does, but it works enough of the time.
Too many people on both sides act like they're having something taken from them because of a perk or item the other side brought to the match. Personally I think it's a waste of time to think that way.
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lmao. I have a friend who says he wants to go look for the hatch with 3 people well alive.
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My friend and I, who usually play survivor as a 2-person SWF, recently added two new friends on some of our playing nights to play as a full 4-person SWF group. I won't even begin to talk about how much of an advantage that's been -- that's a whole other discussion -- but we have, in a number of matches, had one of us bring a key (or run Plunderer's, with someone using an offering to spawn extra chests) and someone else use a hatch offering for the killer shack (and often a map offering by one of us as well, to make sure we're not indoors or on Haddonfield).
The number of key escapes over this short period of time without all of the gens being done has been, frankly, beyond what I would have ever imagined (and as someone who plays a fair bit of killer, it would be infuriating if I were on the other end of things). We've gotten multiple 4-person escapes, but the 3-person escape has been the most common. In those matches, someone died, most if not all of the rest of us were on death hook, and finishing that last generator MIGHT have been possible in some of those games, but very unlikely in others -- but rather than even attempting the last gen, it's always been "Head to the hatch at the shack and we'll meet up there" for a pretty easy escape.
There have also been a couple of 2-person escapes with 3 gens done, and even one where one remaining person in our group re-opened the hatch in the EGC after it had been closed. In the few games we've run against Frankilin's, the keyholder has simply run to the killer shack and dropped the key outside the window to eliminate the killer's counterplay.
As fun as it's been for us as a group, I can imagine how frustrating it's been for the killers we've played against, and again, as someone who plays a lot of killer myself, I know how I'd feel going against that. The hatch, as a mechanism to force the game to a conclusion at its natural end, is fine -- I love the race to find it, from both sides, at the end of a game. But the hatch CAN be abused with the use of keys -- I never realized how much until the opportunity was presented to do so. As long as it's part of the gameplay, we'll continue to use it (we don't do so in every match, but I've either brought in a key or had someone in my direct party use one more in the past few weeks than I did in almost a year of play beforehand -- the threat of a Mori usually dissuaded that idea, but the nerf of that eliminated that one potential threat), but the change to its use, frankly, should be sooner rather than later.
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What if the ability to drop the key was removed? Or just make it so that if you drop an item, the entity eats it after a certain amount of time? Just throwing out ideas.
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You seem to have more of a problem with being slugged than the hatch lol. What’s stopping a killer from closing the hatch and leaving you slugged? You’re still in the exact same scenario you’re complaining about in your OP. As other people have mentioned, if you dislike being slugged so much, bring Unbreakable.
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That just sounds like a fun mechanic. Nice!
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I mean if that were the case you'd see survivors running plunders more often so if they open a chest with a key, they can just leave it there and retrieve once hatch spawns.
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Without the hatch, they'll almost never be anyone escaping. If they remove the hatch they'll have to drastically reduce gen repair times.
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Idea to replace hatch: Final Chase. (Similar to Tru3's idea I believe)
As soon as a single survivor remains in the trial, The Entity blocks the exit gates, the Endgame Collapse begins with both players seeing each other's aura for 15 seconds, and at least one pallet within 32m of each completed generator respawns.
The EGC timer is 2x slower until the chase begins, and the survivor will have to live until the EGC timer reaches the halfway mark, at which point the Entity will open the gates automatically and respawn more pallets.
If the killer manages to down you, they will be able to mori you as if they had a Cypress Memento Mori offering with bonus points. If the survivor escapes, they receive both the regular escape points and what they would get from Hatch currently.
Could always be adjusted to be more balanced, but this makes the last chase more thrilling than just hoping you find the hatch before the other person. The killer gets to enjoy a mori, so maybe the survivor could be given an item while they hear The Entity laugh or something. Also, if they wanted to spice it up a bit more, each side could be given helpful status effects as the chase goes on.
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mate you just slug still...
as long as 2 survivors are alive the killer will still slug.
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You are faster, you don't need to worry about getting spotted. You travel the map more during the game so you have more chance to know where the hatch is.
How is it survivor sided to have the gates at the opposite sides, most of the time you can stand in the middle and see both gates which is ultimate bullshit. Just get whisper and get good seriously. Not everything need to be handed to you.
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That's rich considering this game hands survivors an escape with the hatch mechanic.
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Hatch is there since the beginning of the game. I was killer main in 2016 when you couldn't even close the hatch and we had stand off between survivor and killer. Just waiting for the killer to make a mistake so the survivor couldn't get grabbed.
This game is incredibly snowbally and unfair for solo survivor. You can be a good player and still lose most of your game. As shown by the stats that show 70% killrate and thats with the hatch mechanics. Without the hatch it would be 4k every game. Without the hatch rework it would be stand off for 20 minutes every games.
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And the game is just as unfair to killers in certain situations. Neither side has it good.
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I play both side at a pretty good level. I lose way more as a solo survivor. People would literally leave the game without the hatch. It's the sliver of hope in the solo survivor mind.
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Had a game back in December, had a game against a Spirit, I was Rank 5/4 at the time I believe, and was bleeding out from killer slugging. I keep trying to crawl towards the Meg who was just crouched because the killer had lost me on the ground. But she kept crouching away, you know, like a god tier teammate, only one gen was left and we both coulda escaped. Checked the leaderboard and it was a Rank 17 Meg. Really shows off the amazing matchmaking.
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