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Hatch needs to go
Comments
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Why? EGC is active. No need to slug.
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if EGC is active when 2 survivors are alive that is very unfair for the killer, in fact that is worse then how hatch is now.
If it doesn't activate then it's no different then slugging for a 4k as it is now
edit: Like in a swf say someone is going to die, the two last survivors can just go wait at the gates and at least one will escape if not two. that is worse than how hatch is by a lot.
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the hatch aint the problem its the players. hatch is supposed to give the last survivor a small chance of survival. i say small because 70% of the time you aint getting the hatch as a survivor.
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Hatch offerings exist. The EGC would start when there is only 1 left. Better to have a limited time to check both gates, than wasting an endless amount of time on slugging and searching the other one.
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I hate it when I carry the last survivor past several hooks to the hatch and they still continue to struggle. I know that a shoulder escape give many points but it is really annoying when the survivor then start to tbag and think to themselves they achieved anything and "outplayed" the killer (which was already going to let them go). I simply find those egos annoying but learned to simply ignore them.
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Hatch is like taxes, it sucks but is needed all the same. That being said it's current iteration is boring and could use some kind of interaction instead of "get lucky or get screwed."
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Again how is it ANY different then simply slugging for a 4k like now? Killers that do that will still do it nothing will change so this doesn't address what i think you're trying to address.
If you're problem is hatch itself it's not really a problem if we ignore keys, the worst thing i can think of is a swf dc'ing to give their friend hatch which is pretty rare, in all my time playing that has happened like at most 8 times out of over 3000 games.
Hatch exists to give the last survivor a fair chance to escape it's a race to whoever finds it/gets to it first. once it's closed the exit gates are powered as a last attempt to survive which is fair since the killer can close it as soon as hatch is opened.
There are no major or even common problems with hatch itself other than "the lasts survivor shouldn't escape like this" which is an opinion not an issue. Once keys are reworked hatch won't have any issues at all really and hatch offering btw help the killer if no key is present so as said once keys are nerfed hatch will be fine.
Lastly exit gate spawns are often terrible to the point where either it's killer sided as hell or survivor sided and it's incredibly rare for it to be fair. On certain maps there are also set exit gate spawns that are incredibly unfair to either side no matter what such as midwich, saloon, and lerrys. honestly removing hatch would just make wither the last survivor escapes or not completely RNG which is far worse than how it is now as with hatch survivors have to accept that they will probably die if they don't escape from it or they can wait at a gate to open it once hatch is closed.
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Hatch isn´t fair. Never was and never will be. It´s not fair for the killer, nor for the other survivors. Just had a match with a hatch camper, who let me die on my second hook and then gloated about it on my profile.
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Yeah man for real I get that all the time and really does my head in. And if they can't find the hatch and have to use exit I get some message from them like why did you just die and not struggle? Dude... how was I supposed to know you were coming back?!😂😂
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This, or survivors should be able to pick themselves up when they are the last 2 alive to prevent being slugged until bleed out, with the killer getting adequate blood points if the survivor is forced to use the hatch to compensate for a loss of a kill that is often beyond their control.
Or give survivors the option to kill themselves quicker if they are the last 2, maybe they can attempt to stand themselves up with a small % chance and a loss of time if they fail similar to attempting to unhook themselves.
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That's not taking the game hostage. As a survivor you can try to unlock and take your death. It's no different from when the killer closes the hatch today.
Hostage would be if you couldn't die or escape and were stuck.
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Aww I appreciate the compliment- no, really, I do- but unfortunately for you I'm actually pretty smart xo
I'm glad you shot your shot. Next time, attempt to land in the same continent as me, okay sweetie? xx
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Your use of elipsis makes me worried for your health- are you okay? Did you just climb up a large flight of stairs, or are you really out of shape?
I won't judge you, promise xx
Also, what argument did you give (asides from calling me dumb, which I refuted and can give you some grades to back it up if you want) that haven't been discussed earlier? Sure, make EGC start after the third survivor dies, at which point feel free to also rework the 4 achievements and even more Archive Challenges related to the Hatch, however then what balance issues would that bring? Which killers would be too overbearing and, also, it wouldn't stop slugging for the 4k.
The reason people slug for the 4k is because a 3k + Hatch couldn't possibly be a win- no, no, that's far too ludicrous! So long as the 4th survivor has a chance at escaping, people will keep slugging for the 4k to prevent said escape. It's the tragic reality, but it's true. Removing the Hatch and making EGC start at the death of the third survivor solves nothing and instead creates a mountain of issues which, considering how the devs can't introduce a new killer without making it so Hex: Ruin literally does not function, would probably end up with Star Wars: Return of the Hill Bug, Pyramid Head being able to cancel his Rights of Judgement in 0.2s provided you've used your ability for 2 seconds, the Huntress losing her lullaby radius, and Space Billy 2: Electric Boogaloo.
So again, try again. I'll give you a little hint; instead of going for the Southern Hemisphere, try Europe. You'll land significantly closer, I pinky promise xx
Edit: Just saw your edit, and you're dropping the r-slur too? Not only could this be seen as insulting another user, it's also a bypass of the profanity filter. That's two rules broken in one swoop, oh dear.
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That could be fun.
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well the EGC when hatch is closed is worse and that's what you want sooooooooooo
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Back in the days there was no EGC and once there was only 1 person left IF the team had completed 2 generators or more the Hatch would spawn, also it couldnt be closed.
Now if there was no hatch and the only thing left for the last 1 was to fix any number of gens (which is almost impossible) nothing would stop the last Survivor to go full inmersion until the Killer found him or decided to quit, finding a full inmersion Survivor can take A LOT of time, we are talking about 45 minutes so they put the hatch to give the last Survivor an objective and to avoid a situation where a side cant realistcally win and its only chance is to troll the other out of the game with a DC.
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Not only was it difficult to find the fully immersed survivor, but let's not forget about the Hatch Standoff:tm:. A survivor and a killer would sit on the Hatch, staring at each other. Doing nothing but watching, waiting for the other to get bored.
If the survivor were to jump, the killer could grab. Were the killer to hit, the survivor could jump.
It was genuinely atrocious and I think Marth was in a Standoff for over 2 hours lol.
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Yeah standoffs were a problem, I was in one for 25 minutes once (on my defense that Killer facecamped 2 guys) I was just clarifying to him why Hatch got into the game in the begining, it wasnt to give a way out if both doors spawmed close but to avoid all that wall of text I posted.
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This is a slug problem, not a hatch problem.
IMO, a downed survivor should be able to score that last little bit of recovery by crawling over to a gen and performing a 15 second 'back on their feet' animation. That'd prevent killers from just leaving you slugged in order to lock the hatch.
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Soooooo in that situation I could have been saved. Since the other survivor was camping the hatch instead of going for the rescue.
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He would have camped the Exit Gates instead of the Hatch, it makes no diference.
In the case of starting the EGC right when there is only 1 left like you suggested the Killer would slug anyway because the last one can still open the Exit Gates and the only way to block an escape attempt is to slug, find the other guy, down him and hook him and the slugged one, again no difference.
Removing hatch and popping EGC doesnt solve Exit campers nor 4K sluggers, it just removes a gameplay element.
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That's what perks like Remember Me and the new one, that blocks the gate are for.
People will realize it's better to work in a team and not abandon the team for the hatch.
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No Way Out doesnt work with EGC for it requires for the 5º gen to be repaired not Exit Gates to be activated, it works like Rancor or at least thats what the description says, I havent tested it but the wording is especific "When the last Generator is repaired".
Remeber Me is almost never used, whoever camps the Hatch or Exit Gates will benefit from camping them almost always instead of trying to fix 2 gens which is almost always imposible just for the fear of facing 1 very rare perk, I cant remember the last time I saw that perk (no pun intended).
A case could be made for 1 gen at 0% because if the Killer is dumb you can actually manage to distract him for 80 seconds but once there are 2 people left and you have to fix more than 60 seconds of a gen is usually a 3K minimum and a lot of people decide its every Survivor for themselves.
In any case, removing the Hatch doesnt fix Survivors camping the exit nor Killers slugging, not having any kind of exit mechanic would create the problem of having to find the last super inmersed Survivor and that can take A LOT of time, having that mechanic is the lesser evil, sometimes people escape and dont deserve it? who cares, its just a game, Id rather have 3K half of my matches than having to waste 30 minutes trying to find the last person because he decided to win by forcing me to DC every once in a while. And before it gets suggested, killing the 4º Survivor when the 3º dies is a bad idea, it cuts Killer objectives to 9, would encourage ignoring one person entirely and camping the second and last person, it would be awful and after such thing gets implemented kill ratios would increase so much that a roll of nerfs for almost every Killer would come soon after.
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It all boils down to 1 suvivor being able to keep the killer busy while the other one can progress gens (if he wants). I´ve seen quite a amout of matches that only went down, because someone rage quit.
Good point on the kill rates. We need to see the current stats. I´m having a feeling that we have now far fewer kills than we had before the mori and undying nerf. But thats a totally different topic.
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The thing is keeping the Killer busy depends on 2 people, the Survivor distracting and the Killer letting himself be distracted, in a 2 people left 1 gen need work no decent Killer is going to let himself be distracted for more than 40 seconds nand he rarely will be pulled away from where gens are, odds are he will get a hit and then go back to check on gens trying to at least hit the other Survivor and he will usually patrol gens and stop chases unless they are on a dead zone with no pallets, that assuming he is at least decent.
In my experience as both roles at ranks1-3 usually at 2 people with a gen with less than 20% done is almost always +3K minumum unless both Survivors are super good at stealth, looping and the 3 gens are very very spread, having all those conditions met is very hard. Between 21% and 60% is 75% times a +3K and with more than 60% is half +3K, half 2K. Even fixing the gen doesnt guarantee 2 people will escape for someone is getting chased and unless they have Adrenaline or are uninjured, the distraction has a huge chance of going down while the free Survivor is opening the gates and once he goes down is over.
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There's also a trick survivors have to learn. If that hook is being camped by the killer, they're expecting another player to go for the save so they can smash you down and the person who were on the hook before. Its a no brainer of BP for them. I just had a match where I took the save and the hit firstly opened the EG for them to escape. Told the other 2 leave me and run out the door.... After the match they asked why I didn't want to be saved I told them, coming back for me is exactly what the huntress just expected you to do. And whilst you've done the opposite you've made him or her feel stupid for expecting the extra BP by potentially flattening you both and banging you on a hook. It's a no brainer. You have to trick the killer. They're expecting you to constantly go for a save whilst they casually stand at a hook waiting for the next bit of prey. If you're on a second phase of the sacrifice its a waste of time going back for that save. May as well just chip. End of the day I would of understood.
As for the hatch others saying "it's unfair and should be gone" if you're that bothered as a killer to have those snidey survivors, why not just find it at the start and lock it? That way the have no option but to use the exit? There's always a way round it.
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I saw an idea somewhere where a hatch escape counts as a sacrifice for the killer, but an escape for the survivor.
Would mean less encouragement to slug for a 4K (people might still do it anyway) and killers could give hatch without worrying about pips/emblems. Key escapes would also be less punishing for the killer.
For the survivor, hatch still counts as an escape like it normally does. It's just the killer isn't dinged for it.
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They can't. There's an achievement for finishing the 5th gen while being the last survivor alive.
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Why is this said to the one survivor who complains about hatch/teammates but NEVER to the numerous killers that constantly complain about this on top of other things?
🤔
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You think I don't say that to them? Unlike a lot of people here my standards apply to everyone equally, if you slug for the 4k because hatch op change your mindset too.
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Devs could add a concede option.
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Killer can flip the switch.
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It doesn't spawn at the start. It only spawns once it's eligible to be used by key, which is dependant on the number of survivors you've killed. If you kill 1 and 1 gen left, then it spawns. In many matches you a) don't realize a survivor has found a key and b) haven't even made it to large parts of the map depending on how chases have gone, so saying that at 1 gen the killer can start to wander around and look for the hatch is silly and unpractical.
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Oh I see what you mean now. I thought it spawned at the start as I've seen it on the floor a few times at the start of the match 😂 my bad bro.. I don't necessarily think the hatch itself needs to go, but i do think it needs to have conditions to be used. It's not fair you're down with 2 survivors and 3 gens and you being the only one to do a gen and the other is camping right next to it so or course when the survivng gen fixer is hooked its not difficult to wait for them to die and just jump down it. That pisses me off mostly with 2 last survivors. At least make the effort to try and save, unless of course that killer is camping, if I'm in a party with that survivor by the hatch always say to them don't worry about me find the EG or hatch and leave me hanging.
I don't think having a key to unlock it should exist tbf, once the killer has locked it its locked. Gotta be fair both ways. Unfortunately with this game and community there will always be unhappy survivors and unhappy killers disagreeing about something or not wanting something. However, if a killer is allowed to game play how they want, why can't the survivors? This is a strange debate I think will just go round in circles.
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