Hexes Protecting Hexes. Thrill of the Hunt Issues
We all know how Undying went down... It's insane to think that was even allowed. Notifying the killer every time you tried to cleanse and RNG making you have to cleanse up to 4 times... Crazy... I don't think I ever saw a killer without ruin/undying combo and landslide victories during that time.
Well I'm here bc of a new perk combo that is 100% unwinnable.
Haunted Grounds, Undying, Ruin, & Thrill of the Hunt.
Only 1 of those perks is the actual problem. Can you guess which one?
Thrill of the Hunt...
It notifies the killer when and where you are trying to cleanse a hex and reduces the speed at which you cleanse (And bloodpoint payout incentive)
Which leads me to my issue. There should be no (0) (ZERO) perks that alert killers when & where you are cleansing hexes. These perks change gameplay dramatically (totally fine) which is why they are cleansable. It should be the killer's sole responsibility to defend these perks. I don't think the devs fully understand or calculate when creating these hexes how they can be used together.
So here's a simple fix to make this at least a fair shot for survivors. The killer gets a notification that hex is being cleanse but not WHERE. Don't you think that makes sense for a perk called Thrill of the HUNT?
Comments
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I just laughed so hard I snorted soda out my nose. Really? Unwinnable huh? You have so many more pressing (actual) obstacles before you in this journey we call DbD.
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I see a lack of constructive examples in your response which leads me to believe I am right on this. Regardless of whether you believe it's unwinnable or not. The function of the perk is non negotiable and needs to be changed.
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Complaining about... Thrill Of The Hunt?
Did I read that right?
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In theory, probably, in practice, no. It's the same situation as tinkerer.
Once you get the notification, you have the information (when you ascertain that it's a thrill of the hunt, not a failed skillcheck), but you'll probably already be in a chase. You can only do one at a time, either give up a hex or give up a down. If you consistently choose the hex, you won't win. Even if you have devour hope, you can't get stacks if you're always protecting your totem against cleansing. Not only does the transit take time, at which they can take hits and body block if they're really intent on cleansing it, but it just isn't worth it. Thrill of the hunt gives you information, but no tools to act on that information.
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No, you are not right. I just think that your frame of reference (judging by your OP) and mine are so far apart that anything I say to you will be disregarded. You are too green. However, I'll give you the benefit of my experience with Thrill of the Hunt. I was, after all, a frequent flyer of it for awhile. Thrill of the Hunt is useful for certain Killers (like Myers) because it helped you find the Survivors general vicinity faster. Most apt Survivors start killing Totems immediately. Thus, I can expect a sound notification and get a general direction in the first twenty seconds. That is what Thrill of the Hunt is for primarily. Does it really protect your Totems? Sometimes. At the very start of the game, as you home in on the Survivors to get that first hook, you can sometimes grab someone off that Totem if you move like lightning, but it isn't anything to count on.
On a different note, you need to get your mind right. You are too new, and know too little to be making sweeping statements like "this is unwinnable." You are just going to make a fool of yourself. You have to crawl before you walk, and walk before you run. What is always fascinating to me is there is a wealth of info on the internet ( a Wiki even) that you can use to research different Perks, learn basic strategies, and even videos where top tier Killers/Survivors provide you free training. You must have either disregarded taking advantage of all that, or you just ignored all the advice they gave you. Nothing is unwinnable. That very mindset holds you back. Getting good at this game starts with accepting that all faults and failures lie within yourself. You don't pass the buck. You don't look for scapegoats. You focus on YOU. You ask yourself what can YOU do to mitigate these things you are finding troublesome.
My first bit of advice is to start recording your matches. Watch them later with a less biased eye. You will find, even if you were sure you played perfectly, that you did not. It is far more important to know your own weaknesses than it is to know your strengths. You can't solve a problem until you realize and admit you have one. You will, one day, look back on this thread with a bit of embarrassment. That is a good thing; it will mean you have grown.
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I checked the build... it's strong but it's counterable. Two Survivors on mic can shut down this build if they work together.
It's already known by smart Survivors and Killers that Thrill can be turned against the Killer by forcing them to drop chases or abandon gens to protect their hex by simply tapping a hex and then crouching nearby. If the Killer doesn't return, sit on the hex and break it. Ez.
In terms of this build, the same strategy applies, except you should to do bodyblocking if the Killer is a M1 Killer to buy time, or force "lose/lose" scenarios by having you and your teammate sit on two different hexes at the same time. No matter what happens, the Killer loses a hex. This can be done with one other smart teammate or one SWF partner. 2 man SWFs are common btw, according to official stats, so yeah.
I can see how this build is strong against a full solo team, but all it takes is one or two smart Survivors to recognize Thrill and Undying in this setup mid-trial (can be done by tapping a hex) and quickly check if Ruin is active to figure out the main gimmick to this build, and then body block or do the "lose/lose" tactic and force the Killer to lose hexes.
This build is also reliant on Survivors respecting Ruin. If Survivors don't 3 gen themselves or if the Killer isn't Spirit or a mobility Killer, this build either falls apart fast or causes a M1 Killer to lose the game because they had to defend their hexes all game.
EDIT: Also, let me add some more input: A Killer like Billy with a instadown to disrespect bodyblocking and mobility to dash between hexes might benefit the most from this build, but Survivors can still force lose/lose situations in this instance by staying aggressive on hexes. Get chased off of a totem? Go back on it. If the Killer doesn't return to defend another hex, stay on it and the Killer loses a hex. If the Killer returns, return to a loop while your teammates break other hexes. You should be able to point out hexes to other people by having them follow you around and watch the Killer to guess when they're moving to defend a hex and set up these lose/lose scenarios in solo queue.
Trapper with his traps to buy time could work, but he's a M1 Killer with no mobility, meaning that lose/lose and being aggressive on totems still works and bodyblocking counters him because of no instadown.
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First time it was a hag who trapped the totems as well. Then it was Deathslinger on suffocation pit. We HAVE to cleanse ruin on that map or else he can defend 1 side.
I just went against this build again (just now) except undying was replaced with Devour and it was a spirit. I'm rank 1 with 2 more rank 1s and a rank 4. This is how it went down.
The first 2 totems were haunted grounds. We got exposed twice. She got about 4 downs between both bc thrill alerted her when they were cleansing. Then devour kicked in. I went to go cleanse it (maybe??? It could still be Ruin or Thrill). She was alerted and hooked me. She got 2 downs with Devour. Someone else got devour while I was on hooked next to it. Then we got Thrill but lost 2 teammates and we still needed ruin. I popped ruin. Nancy and I took turns on the last gen and chase. We popped it but we both died before opening the exit gate.
I don't understand why its so hard for you to grasp that the killer be responsible for defending the hexes. They already know the locations. I really don't think what I am suggesting is that out there. The killer will still get a notification just not which totem. The less hexes you have. The more beneficial bc you can guess which totem they are on.
The only reason we even got that close is bc I play Spirit
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Let's get this back on track as a lot of people are conjuring made up information. I have over 1K hours. I am not new to the game. I don't post here often bc I only post when something is obviously unbalanced. Like Trickster in the PTB. He's weak AF. So that's when I started here.
Some of you want to spin the narrative that I am complaining about Thrill alone. But like the original post says, it's the hex combo using Thrill that's unbalanced. The easiest fix being the smallest, tiniest, micro change to Thrill... an audible alert for Thrill versus visual.
I could recommend something more drastic if you wish
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Alright I have encountered this again 3 more times. Yet to have a win against it. All red lobbies. I'm still rank 1.
Played another Hag who had the totems trapped. Hag alone is unbalanced. This build is so far unwinnable. Will keep updating for those who still think it's fair.
I'll say it again. Thrill Of the Hunt should NOT reveal location. Hexes are game changing perks and should require the killer to guard NOT another Hex totem to do the job for them.
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Went against this build on a spirit again today. Another full red lobby. I'm rank 1. We all died.
We could have a fighting chance against this build if it wasn't for Thrill of the Hunt
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Went against the build again today. This was the first match we were able to cleanse all hexes. As you can see it is still unwinnable. We had 3 gens left. Thrill of the Hunt is a HUGE issue to the balance. I will continue to provide evidence. So far 100% of the matches with this build has resulted in a 4K
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I am back AGAIN to say that I've faced this build against a Trickster. A ######### Trickster! Full red lobby. And they got a 4K.
When I said this build is unwinnalbe, it looks like I was right. Hexes should NOT protect other hexes. These perks are powerful on their own and should require the killer to use skill to defend them.
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All I see is someone using confirmation bias & spamming their own thread. Just because you lost does not make the setup OP. Nor is it OP because the Killer got a 4K.
People have told you why it's not OP, and you've ignored them. All that blaming 'op' builds does is prevent you from learning from any mistakes that you have made, so you keep making them, keep dying, and keep blaming everything but yourself.
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This build seems perfectly winnable? You can win a game while never cleansing ruin, and this build has virtually no other perks in it but Ruin. Just ignore the hexes and pile on gens while somebody's looping the killer.
Devour Hope is much more dangerous in this kind of setup. Ruin is a strong perk, but not game-winning strong, especially when your gen pressure is diluted between having to chase survivors off totems nonstop. And sheesh, you're complaining about this on Pig and Trickster? Neither of them have map mobility. Do the hexes when somebody's looping them on the other side of the map. If you're in a SWF, do two hexes at once. Have a friend bodyblock you to buy a few more seconds' time.
Your 'fair' solution to try to fix a strong perk combo makes TotH completely useless. You'll always have another hex with Thrill, so it turns it into a 50/50 if you go to the hex that has a person on it, with the odds going down the more hexes you have. If you fail the coin flip and go to the wrong hex, you lose, and TotH didn't make a difference in your match. As it is, TotH hinges on you being close enough to the hex to get there in time, and not being busy with something else you can't abandon, and you rarely see it compared to Undying which will always protect your totem at least once. Your proposed version? Another garbage never-used perk for the pile.
Seriously. "It's the killer's responsibility to protect their hexes", when half the time the hex spawns on a hill or in a jungle gym next to a gen. The only actual way the killer can protect their hex is to camp it, because once people have spotted it, they're going to jump on it the second you're occupied, and leaving the area means you lose the perk. And camping the hex means you lose the game, period, because there's no point in having a perk that regresses gens if you don't pressure gens or a perk that rewards you for getting hooks and staying away from the hook when you can't chase anyone too far away from your totem. If the killer wants to spend another precious perk slot on additional ability to defend their hex perks, that's their opportunity cost to make, and it weakens them in other ways.
All of this sounds like you think you have the right to remove the hex totem as soon as you spot it, and you don't like that there are stacking counters that can make that difficult.
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How did you possibly manage to lose vs a Trickster with a hex build, of all things?
Trickster, the ONE Killer who cannot defend their totems in the slightest. The Killer who can be "no win scenario"'d the most... Are you sure your team wasn't just bad?
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Went against this build on a wraith today. Again a 4k.
You guys don't understand. Ruin is never the most urgent problem until we have 1 gen left. But by then Devour has kicked in and we've been hooked several times because of Thrill. The killers leave whatever chase, gen, hook to protect their hexes. Several of my team were phenomenal loopers including me but as soon as someone touches the hex the killer leaves to interrupt the cleanse. Thrill of the Hunt is ALERTING them for free protection.
They have NO FEAR of gens because they know the power of the hexes will carry them more than the gens.
So far the statistics speak for themselves. You guys can sit and judge from the outside looking in. But I have presented NUMEROUS of the trials that have so far been 100% 4K with Full Red lobbies.
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->Survivors complain about Undying, getting it gutted and forcing killers to run an entire hex build.
->Killers make hex perks a viable secondary objective.
->Survivors buckle under the duress of a secondary objective.
->Survivors complain that a killer executes their high risk, high reward build and actually get the high reward of a 4K.
->Survivor doesn't have enough self awareness to realize they just need to get better at the game to foil a killer's plans.
Old Undying literally prevented this situation that you are complaining about by naturally countering other hex perks.
Ya'll made this bed, now you lay in it just the way you wanted it.
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Bro that build may as well be only ruin, if you encounter a killer running it just leave the ruin up and do the gens, works gens in pairs of 2 so that if the killer interrupts one person runs away and the other can hide then get back on it. I can see how it might be tough against a high mobility killer or hit and run killer but that killer is going to have basically no info so he's relying entirely on game sense to find survivors
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Undying was problematic for completely different reasons as it was unfair to BOTH survivor and killer.
Any heavy RNG mechanic greatly imbalances the game like kobe, hatch escapes, pig head trap, etc
I know this build. I've put every fiber of my being into proving myself wrong. I was a rank 1 for every match I've posted here with full red lobbies.
You guys sit there and complain like I don't know how to play. I'm simply bringing you the statistics. You can't argue against facts.
So you can talk crap all you want. The devs have what they need. I'm just here to point out that the imbalance lies within Thrill of the Hunt.
Guard your own totems weakling. What do you want an AI to do the killing for you?
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And like I've said before. I've had matches where we've cleansed all totems. But the team was utterly destroyed by Devour, Haunted, Ruin, Thrill, that finishing whatever gens left was impossible.
You guys act like I'm asking for changes to ruin and devour. Nope. Just the imbalance Thrill creates with full Hex loadouts. Get some perspective and stop being so dramatic.
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Okay, lets look at the only objective information you've provided this entire thread.
From the point values I can determine that the bottom 2 survivors died fairly quickly into the match. From this I can see a few likely scenarios. Either:
- The survivors killed themselves on hook, if that is the case then that's not the killer nor the build's fault.
- The killer tunneled, this would be considered poor sportsmanship, but it is still not the build's fault.
- The survivors mis-played personally either by not healing, or making mistakes in evading the killer. Which is neither the killer nor the build's fault.
- You failed to intervene to save your team, leading to their untimely death. If you make decisions, and the killer makes decisions and their decisions go favorably in their direction that means they are superior to you as a player in that moment whether by previous experience or instinct. This remains, ultimately, still not the builds fault because you lack experience in dealing with the time management necessary to deal with a secondary objective and your primary objective of escaping.
Continuing on to the top two survivors with nearly double the points values I can determine from this just one likely scenario that you two attempted, likely for 20 or so minutes, to 2v1 this poor pig that just wanted to not have her totems broken in under 10 seconds by running not one, but TWO totem protection perks, devoting 50% of her entire perk build when, if survivors matched her for just 2 totem finding perks, would only constitute 12.5% of the total survivor perks in the match. Maybe we should talk about that imbalance? Should killers get 5 or 6 perk slots to compensate for that?
Also I can't believe nobody else has pointed this out, but you have two people running No Mither and complaining that you got 4K'd? I mean really, you are basically begging to get 4K'd at that point.
Furthermore, you want to talk about perspective, but I don't remember any survivors that were complaining stopping to think that Undying was created to be a band-aid for poor totem spawns to begin with, which has yet to be fixed by the way. In addition you ultimately did not even have to engage with Ruin/Undying at all after the Ruin change, but now you are suddenly angry that a killer has the AUDACITY to commit 100% of their build to forcing you to interact with something besides a generator? You honestly sound entitled and the lack of self awareness beggars belief to the point that I can't tell if you are genuine or just a troll. Survivors really thought Ruin/Undying was sweaty? I guess everyone just underestimated how sweaty killer players are willing to be. On top of that with the new small game changes learning where totems spawn and practicing cleansing totems has never been easier or more accessible, and if Undying had been left alone everything would have worked out perfectly fine with Undying continuing to counter mass hex builds. Unfortunately now you are in a situation without old Undying to save you, and you just have to live with that because that is what you, as a group, asked for.
Not to mention, and this is the really important factor, survivors are as powerful as killers can allow them to be. The more powerful a killer is then the more powerful and impactful each individual survivor is allowed to be. So by begging to gut and ruin killers, you are basically begging to get your own perks slashed and gutted right back in order to compensate for the new vacuum of power in the opposing role. Despite being 4v1, its a symbiotic system and at the end of the day the killer still has to be physically capable of getting a 4K, thus the weaker they are, the weaker survivors must be. The killer has his job to do, and the survivors have theirs, and by allowing the killer to have fun and be powerful, so too can the survivors make crazy sick plays and create camaraderie with displays of skill, but you can't do that by just nerfing all avenues of skill expression out of the game.
The killer made the build, they beat you with it, that's the end of the story. The fact that you can come in here and say that its successful on a bunch of killers just means that it works well in this environment where survivors aren't ready to handle the addition of so much extra time, it'll change once survivors get better at managing that. This build is high risk (the chance they'll have no perks in roughly 77~ seconds accounting for HGs exposure.) for the high reward of getting a 4K and its all down to their personal ability to guard their totems in each trial. Now its up to you, as a survivor, to learn that new avenue of skill expression the killer has created.
Also, for future reference, your "statistics" are completely worthless as they are a sample size of 1, you should probably keep some perspective and realize that. There are 69,352,859,712,417 possible chess games to be played, a game with far fewer variables than Dead by Daylight, with that in mind the hypothesis you present with your "statistics" is knee jerk immature at best, and slovenly misguided at worst.
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Well u got ur wish, toth now nerfed so u don’t get a notification
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My thoughts exactly
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