Ruin isn't underpowered, base regression is
So Hex: Ruin has been a staple of killer since the beginning of its release. Its slowdown with great skill checks being the only way to progress a gen with Ruin up was somewhat phenomenal. although it was changed for reasons i don't know probably because it wasn't beginner friendly and only affected people that couldnt hit great skill checks or find totems. New Hex: Ruin was eventually born, and although depending on who you ask its either worse or better then old ruin. but even before its rework and after its a necessity to run in red ranks. if you do not run hex ruin you dont have hex ruin unlocked or you have preferences. but even if you choose pop or surge they have flaws that are out shadowed by ruin. one of ruins few flaws being its a totem perk. which when cleansed removes way to much pressure on the survivors. So why is everyone basically forced to use ruin if you want to get to rank 1? because base regression isn't good enough, although i don't know the exact math behind base gen regression im going to assume its 100%. which on paper sounds pretty fast. but in practice its not. thats why perks like Surveillance, Surge, Trail of Torment, Opression aren't used that much because of the poor base gen regression (note: surveillance on its own isnt that great but paired with ruin its pretty decent) so i have a idea on how to buff Base Gen Regression and not make ruin a perk to throw away. My Idea is buff base gen regression to 200%. this is basically ruin tier 1. this would encourage killers to kick gens more often to regress generators. and what would happen to ruin? well my idea for that is at tier 1 it regresses gens faster by 50% tier 2 is 75% and tier 3 100% also including when survivors arent touching gens. now what would this mean for other killer perks? well pop would maybe get nerfed because removing 25% off a gen with 200% base regression might be too powerful. If you would like post some of your ideas if you please. i would love to hear them! thank and maybe will talk on another discussion.
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FYI base regression is .25 charges/second, which is 1/4 of the normal repair speed. Ruin bumps that up to .5 charges/second. Gens have 80 charges, so Ruin is the difference between a gen regressing from 99.9% to zero in 5:20 and 2:40.
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I see now. thank you for the explanation
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Sure thing :)
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Interesting. also to clear up any questions about it im not saying pop should be nerfed again. i personally think the first pop nerf was understandable but very annoying.
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Wait... So fully regressing a gen from 99% down to 0% is like... 320 seconds??? Im bad at math someone pls tell me if I'm wrong I got a Grade B in middle school LMAO.
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Just nerf Ruin to 150% at Tier 3 and make base regression a bit higher so you lose Ruin but its still worth kicking gens.
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Ruin and Surge are good because you don't have to stop to kick a gen to get regression. If a survivor is on a gen and you have Pop, you have to give them a head start and Pop the gen, or you chase them off and risk losing out on your Pop. Same thing with Dragon's Grip and Overcharge.
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Yup.
I hate having to run ruin but it's a must have perk to even be able to win the game.
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I would do the opposite. Currently there's barely any benefit to kicking a gen if a survivor can jump right back on it. Have those first 10-15 seconds of regression be at 200%, then knock it down 50% in 10-15s intervals.
Alternative, have base kicks automatically regress gens by an additional 5%, with Pop going up to 30%, Surge up to 13%, etc.
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Why? Ruin is just a fragile HEX perk, it can be made useless right in the beginning, it's just based on totem rng.
Ruin is just so much better than Pop or Thana, you have almost no choice.
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My idea to buff base regression is that on top of applying the base regression (1/4 of survivor's repairing speed) the gen also gets 5% immediate penalty when kicked. This not only would encourage killers to kick a generator, but also make survivors question if they should just tap a gen to stop regression because if the killer is near, they could kick again and then apply another 5% regression, making the situation worse for them.
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Who the hell would call Ruin underpowered? It's a risk but if it stays up for even the first 2 minutes of the game it's done more than almost any perk in the game will do for you.
If it stays up all game it dwarves any other perk.
If it's gone immediately, which isn't too common, using undying can make sure you get that absolute value out of it; but people were using it even before undying came along for a reason.
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Do you think 45secs to hit a gen is a nerf to pgtw? Making pgtw deactivate if the killer hit someone would be a nerf, and it’s the nerf they’re applying to ds
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The fact that you have to use Undying and other perks to keep it alive is bad design and the regression itself is just too high.
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That's right, yep. Gens take 80 seconds to repair solo and base regression is 1/4 repair speed 👍
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I- yikesssss, that is way too long #########... They should really buff base regression then...
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No its not, its totally dependant on which Killer you are playing and what map you got, Pop gives roughly 20 seconds with every kick, since you can get roughly 8 worthy kicks out of Pop (the last 11 and 12 are useless since the game is already over and lets assume you dont kick a gen over 25% twice) you can get 160 extra seconds/charges out of Pop which means the Survivors have to repair 2 additional generators only by using PGTW.
For Ruin to give 160 extra charges you need to force Survivors out of a regresable gen 320 seconds in total (If you force someone for 320 seconds out of a gen thats 10% done you are not getting 160 charges, you are getting only 8 charges) thats almost 5 minutes worth of people forced out of regresable gens which is no easy feat with low mobility Killers, especially since is hard to push 4 people at once unless they are clustered, Ruin has to last that much without being cleansed for it to reach PGTW levels of stalling.
Pop is MUCH better for low mobility Killers and 3gen defenders and Ruin is better for high mobility Killers who can push Survivors easily and defend the Totem.
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This isn't entirely accurate. You also have to account for any survivors who have decided to stop doing gens and go look for the Hex instead. That's also gen pressure, that's time they're not doing any gens.
You're right that you get more mileage out of PGTW on low mobility killers, but it's not foolproof.
I tend to run Pop with Tinkerer, and I can't tell you how many times I've made my way to a 70% gen with PGTW ready and the gen pops just as I get there, with no other viable gens to kick. Or the times where all 5 gens have been completed and I've only made about 4 hooks, netting me a total of just 80s of gen pressure via PGTW.
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I do count that, they go into the 320 seconds total out of a gen, that includes any reason people are not doing gens like going for a heal or an unhook. Also take on account people tend to commit to gens a lot more when Ruin is active, for example a 70% gen without Ruin may be left for an unhook but with Ruin they will finish it and then go for unhook or finish the gen and then healing with a medkit.
On a side note Pop+Tinkerer looks like a bad combo overall, they dont synergize well for you need a hook and then you have less 45 seconds after Tinkerer activates, assuming it doesnt activate when you have 10 seconds left on Pop.
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Well in that scenario, without Tinkerer it wouldn't have even been a near miss, it would have popped on the other side of the map. Point is PGTW isn't that reliable, you can't guarantee that there's a gen to kick, and get 25% regression out of it, within 45 seconds of hooking someone. Most of the time I resort to kicking gens that have barely been started.
The only gen pressure perk that you ever get 100% value out of, is Corrupt Intervention.
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Yea thats why I put you get roughly 8 kicks worth out of PGTW not 10 or 12, its what I get on average with that perk, sometimes more, sometimes less but it gravitates towards 8 most of the time.
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