DS Nerf - Was it needed?
Comments
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And guess what my dude?
There's a lot of people who farm you off the hook.
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This is true up until red ranks when the role reversal happens. The survivors get the power role and the killer gets the number-- wait a minute... 🤔
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I mean, if a survivor runs a killer around for 5 gens, that's because the killer player is just bad at the game.
It's true that skill does play a role there. But against good killer players you will go down soon enough again. Unless you have like multiple god loops to use. And there is no skill involved in tunneling a survivor directly off the hook.
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Listen its a team game and should be played with that in mind. If there's a killer camping then it could very well take all the survivors working together to get the unhook. If you don't try to fix the situation by bringing perks to combat it or taking actions to stop it then you're contributing to the problem. Survivors need to be more willing to work together but that's too much to ask.
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It was needed.
You can't do gens, totems, heal other people or unhook people if you're being tunnelled
If you think the game needs anti-momentum perks then that's a different conversation I think
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I dont see how that has anything to do with the previous point.
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A situation I just had: Was hooked beside a generator that was regressing. My teammate rescues me. The killer is really close, but I go ahead and tap the generator before immediately running away. The killer (obviously tunneling) catches me 5 seconds later, but DS is gone because I touched the generator for like 1 second. I do think DS needed some kind of rework. But the current state its in is just kinda frustrating.
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No not taking certain perks or all going for the unhook isn't contributing to the problem. The problem is that tunneling and camping is an extremely unfun strategy for survivors to deal with, and it doesn't have much to do with skill.
I really hope that, at least once the killers get their early game, camping and tunneling get addressed.
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That is a fair opinion!!
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That is actually not true. If you think you are not getting tunneled and heal one solo second DS is gone, remember the person just started the heal then realizes the killer is coming back for them. AND the most stupid thing is that it still only lasts 60 seconds. Usually I outrun the killer and go down when it ran out for quiet some time. If it was a true anti-tunnel perk the timer would stop when getting chased and not go down at all if the killer goes for the unhooked with ds still running. DS also should stop going down if the person is getting farmed and slugged. I honestly don't even know what kind of killer players had a problem with ds anyway. I had very few situations getting ds'd and only if I couldn't tell them apart (if they go in as lookalikes). At least for me it was never a problem, for me problems are genspeed and unnecessary rude behaviour.
The state that ds has right now is a waste of a perk slot but if no one has it the tunnel seems to be the only playstyle existing (and not only if there is just 3 gens left) for a way too big amount of killer players. Had that multilple games: Someone gets hooked 2-3 gens get done and if I unhook the person with bt and take a hit the killer just ignores me on the gen next to the unhooked and continues chasing that person next to the gen.
I now changed to the same playstyle as if the person gets facecamped by Bubba in the basement, as long as the killer isn't injuring someone else I won't go for the saves at all (unless it's an archive thing). Guess that is the only effective way to counter it although them injuring someone and then going straight back for the unhooked is pretty common as well. Unfortunately it is very boring to just do gens and have 0 chases and it gives nearly no bp. Same goes for being the one chased. Even if one lasts for 4-5 gens it's only chase points, maybe a bit for a gen that you started and nearly no points in other categories. But I guess that is just how it is now.
I just hope they reduced survivor challeges in the archive so we don't have to play that much survivor (there were always less for killer anyway).
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Was it needed? Yes.
Was it enough? No.
... and I hope Adrenaline is next
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Was it needed?: Yes, 60 seconds in the game is actually a long time (1 hook stage, 3/4ths of a solo gen, 1/4th of a bleed out on the ground). And if the survivor in question has enough time to throw a heal on somebody or work a gen... they don't feel pressured anymore and thus it can be safely concluded that in most case they are no longer being tunneled. This will cease punishing efficient killer's that weren't necessarely tunneling, just punishing really careless hook saves and hooking the other person first THAT FAST
Is it enough? For me it is
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I'm gonna hard disagree on that one with you chief. Sure, there are matches where people tunnel because they're playing killer, made some bad plays, couldn't apply the pressure they needed, and went for camping/tunneling at 2 gens left because it was their first hook. But in my experience? Those matches are few and far between compared to the ones where the Killer had started camping and tunneling at 4/5 gens left when the Survivor didn't BM.
In most scenarios, there's a lot Killers can do against gen speed. Camping and tunneling won't stop if gens are slower.
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"It was the survivors' only ticket to survival against tunneling and consecutive hooking within 60 seconds."
No, it wasn't. You can counter tunnelers by being a good looper and if they want you bad enough... sorry pal, that's just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes especially in solo q, you have a lesser chance of surviving if you can't loop for nothing and no game will ever go your way one hundred percent. I've tend to find those who had DS and were DS dependent were one of two things. Either A: Toxic themselves in order to use it to get a good laugh at the killer and a good F you to them or B: terrible loopers who got caught slow vaulting a window during a chase in a very, very bad looping spot. It was abused daily and not for the sole intent on preventing tunneling, oh no. It was used when their dumbasses got plucked off a gen they were working on right in front of my face, it was used after being caught in a locker the killer obviously heard them go in because their ninja skills are apparently out of this world or killers are just deaf and it was used as toxic bait with all 3 of their friends had it too, they would all take turns DS'ing the stuffing out of you and none of this was tunneling, the last example was straight out bullying. The way it is now is balanced and exactly to prevent true tunneling and coincidentally, since this whole DS nerf I've only seen one person in the endgame screen have it on their perks. It was about time it was gone and not to be cliche here but all the DS dependent players are like that Avengers meme, "if you're nothing without DS, then you shouldn't have DS."
Idk blame all the toxic players who abused it instead of the devs. Maybe they'll think twice about abusing perks but I doubt it strongly. Anyways, blame them and not the devs.
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Not true. Only tunneling one person actually ensures the other survivors and their gens have no pressure.
There's a reason most games where killers tunnel, they only get like 1, maybe 2 kills max. Because they're using very poor management.
You say it pressures other survivors, but how...? Because 1 has to get off a gen quick and go back to it after you continue tunneling?
Other survivors being injured or pressured from gens is a MUCH better use of your time than tunneling in many situations, unless the survivor is just a very weak link. This will stop them from pressuring the gens in more ways than tunneling, such as healing and repositioning the survivors. While tunneling, neither of these happen, giving them free reign to do nothing but gens without a care.
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As it has been mentioned a million times now, the change was definitely needed and is extremely healthy for the game overall.
The only thing I would have changed too: make DS activate after EVERY unhook, not only once and if you use it, it's gone. Then it would be most efficient in being "anti-tunnel", wouldn't it? If we want to make sure killers don't hardcore tunnel, make them watch out who to follow after EVERY unhook, not just after one and if DS is gone, it's a "I'm free to tunnel that one survivor" situation.
Thoughts? Would that be OP? I honestly don't know, since I'm always trying my best to specifically NOT tunnel and leave the unhooked person alone, so...
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The only difference between tunneling and not tunneling is the target you go for. Other than that, they are functionally the same: a set of chases. To say that there's no skill in tunneling is to deny that chasing requires skill (which some people actually believe, but I'm hoping you're not one of them).
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I mean there’s plenty of ways to do no skill tunneling. Sitting near the hook invisible with wraith, then hitting the guy the second they get off the hook for example. Ignores BT, if they don’t have DS it can be a free win if it’s done early.
Solo Q teams will never be able to communicate what is happening before it’s been done. Then at that point the skill of the other survivors is almost irrelevant unless someone goes on a godly run.
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Direct off the hook tunneling is the result of two things. Either the killer is camping and at some point all survivor will get the memo that the best strategy against this is focussing on gens and for the hooked to hold on. Or the rescuing survivor brought the killer back to the hook either in direct chase (a stupid play) or was seen going for the unhook at which point the rescue should be aborted or the unhooker should block for the unhooked and try to take the heat. If the killer tries to ignore the block than it is truly tunneling the other survivor and ds will come into effect.
But survivor got way too used to be protected either by bt or ds and only go for the Bodyblock or anything the like when they are protected by the perk and have no risk in play.
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Imagine thinking that if you're doing anything useful to your team, you're being tunneled.
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Two words: Protection hit. If the unhooker really wanted to help the other survivor, they'd take a hit.
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Tapping a gen in a time worth of 1 frame (with portable overcharge Skillcheck) is already a problem in itself vs the 2 seconds it costs to start regression.
But if you even get to ds them and run the killer for maybe 60 seconds (the straight running distance gained by ds is already 24 seconds worth) that tap would be worth another 15 seconds of gen progress.
Edit: also this hypothetically times 4 plus the potential gen progress done by the other 3 survivor during your chase.
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It is a forum filled with 99% of killer mains, most of them totally unskilled asking for survivors nerfs everyday about almost every perk. The next to come is DH :).
While all of them are playing Stridor Spirit, Gunslinger and Hag with broken meta perks equipped cause they don't know how to outplay survivors.
What did you expect posting a thread like this here ? This forum is full of killer toxicity. Thanks to them we got :
- pallets bodyblocking
- less pallets
- 100 changes on flashlight saves
- pick up down survivors faster
- exploding gens half the time when you stop doing them
- DS nerf
- DH changes
- Many new killers that remove the pallet loops possibilities
- Smaller maps
- Hooks 5 meters away from each others
etc...
All because the developers are listening to those killers that have 0 skill.
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It’s trivial for the wraith to get around to the person he wants to hit during the uncloak speed boost. And if it’s done well, you are hitting them when the other survivor is still coming out of an animation lock. It’s not really possible to take a protection hit.
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I don't get 60 sec invincibility REEEEEEEE!
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not like it had a huge impact. you can still force it by going into lockers, chasing the killer. before the killer could still smack you off that action so it really doesnt make a difference. not to mention you can still open exit gates with ds active
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*If you do get tunneled, you don't get to use DS, because they didn't actually change anything so that it actually counters tunneling, just stopped it from being abusable.
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yes it was needed.
"Now more killers will enjoy tunneling"
DS still hits tunnelers. If survivors stop running it that's on them.
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Definitely not at all needed. Killer mains are masters at manipulating the devs and getting their candy. Unfairness is off the charts. Look at killer perks and then look at survivor perks for obvious proof. Killer perks never get nerfed like survivor perks. Ruin buffed, BBQ still not nerfed, Tinkerer massively buffed. NOED still in the game. Killers really do have the easy mode.
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You chose to lose DS by stopping a gen regress, next time don't touch the gen. The other survivor could touch the gen. That's on you for making a bad play, not the perk.
It's not supposed to be a free pass to touch a gen.
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Cleanse Ruin, get in a locker for BBQ, use your eyes to counter Tinkerer (very easy to determine if the killer has it by just paying attention, for the record), cleanse NOED. There, all your problems have been solved.
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In knowing when, how and why to use that risky strategy (tunneling)
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All of those perks are too much advantage for the killer. In most areas you can't see a killer coming with Tinkerer and if he is Bubba then it is a free down. That's broken.
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yes it was
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It’s the trend that this game has been taking for 2 years now. These new people playing killer don’t even wanna have to do anything more than click M1 to win instantly. There’s no getting good at chasing, not getting good at any strategy, not even trying to do something properly anymore.
“Remove all pallets, block all windows, fill everything with dead ends, break every strong perk and make it useless, make the game kill for me”.
No, the DS change wasn’t needed. It’s a completely useless perk now and nothing prevents being tunnelled anymore. It especially hurts solo survivors. But, as I’ve said it before, all you can do is react to this accordingly: Stop playing survivor and focus on killer if you want to play, or just play something else. I started playing HsH a few days ago because of this last DLC and it’s actually very fun.
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Most of my solo survivor matches go like this:
@NightWolfsFury Survivors only dying because of camping or because they got cocky after 4 gens were completed with almost no hooks.
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Don't do that. You shouldn't have a safe gen-tapping before running away (and also, it takes more time to kick a gen than save it by tapping. Gen-tapping shouldn't be a thing). It was a risk you were willing to take and it backfired. If you just left, your DS would have been active.
I say that as a heavy DS user. The perk should counter tunneling better than it currently does, but it shouldn't do anything else than help you to run to safety.
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So why did you tap the gen if you wanted to keep DS?
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I think alot of people just have a misconception of what true to tell tunneling is. Tunneling is when a killer goes out of their way to get you and you alone out of the game as fast as possible. Simply put, if you have the opportunity to be healed, help other survivors, or work on a generator, you’re not being tunneled. Now-old DS was less of an anti-tunneling and more of a free full minute of grabbing invulnerability. Actual Invincibility if paired with Unbreakable. I’m happy with the change. DS still has a defined use, and while overall useage of the perk may lower, to see the shift in meta will be interesting.
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if you get tunnel and last more than 60 sec, you don't get to use DS tho ,)
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- No different than before.
- Congratulations! You ran the killer for at least 60 seconds and gave your team loads of time to do gens!
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I agree BT needs reworked. But I also believe Rushed Saves is the issue with BT. More often then never, as a Killer. The sooner I hook anyone. And I start to leave. Someone goes for a save. What am I supposed to do? Let it go? First instinct is I go right back and chase them again. Only to have BT stop me from doing so. BT Makes Killers need to tunnel. Chase down the weakened survivor. To sacrifice to the Entity.
I say BT shouldn't activate until a certain amount of time being on a hook happened. Getting rescued a minute after should be enough for BT to work.
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Was DS nerf needed? I dont feel as inmortal as before, and i noticed i actually need skill for staying alive. Im asking once again, is DS nerf needed? ;( ;( ;( Why nerfing survivors when its the most harder role? ;( ;( ;(
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If someone gets rescued with BT, the idea is you go after the one who unhooked them. If it's right in front of you, you should have no problem at least injuring that survivor. Now both are equally injured and both equally easy targets, except one has ~20 seconds of invulnerability, so go for the unhooker.
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i dont agree, the game should be balanced around 50/50 with SOLOQ
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Duh? 🤔
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Ideally, but that would mean SWFs always have a huge advantage.
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Then why did you say BT "makes killers need to tunnel"?
It makes them NOT tunnel.
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In winning 4 chases with the Survivor. Same as the skill in hooking any Survivor.
Why couldn't your teammate tap the gen before rescuing you? You knew the killer was close, you could have waited, used ds when he grabbed you again, and tapped the gen while he was stunned. 2 options that wouldn't have made you lose ds before you needed it.
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The problem with this line of thinking is that in those situations say you do injure the un-hooker, now the person with borrowed can body block you from the un-hooker and if you hit the person with bt then they get a speed boost to get away. Its a lose lose situation for the killer all because I can't control having a terror radius.
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