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Hex: No One Escapes Death: Problem? Or not?
Hex: No One Escapes Death, probably one of the single most debated about Hex perks. Who wouldn't wanna debate on it? Is it a crutch perk? Is it not? Who knows?
So, opinions of NOED?
NOED ######### ######### ######### GOD WHY, GoobyNugget.
Comments
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The only nerf I would give NOED is to display the exposed status as soon as the final generator is repaired, instead of when the first person is hit following that. Often that first hit is too late, often right by the exit gate, and so you get no chance to find and cleanse the totem, especially if EGC has been triggered.
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NOED is attempting a very noble design goal: Ensuring the game doesn't putter out and remains dynamic and competitive to the last second.
It UTTERLY fails at this. It is purely frustrating for survivors and pretty worthless for killers.
Ultimately the entire end game system kinda sucks and I would say it and NOED should be reworked so killer is by default way stronger once gens are done to ensure a more explosive finish to the game, but its more predictable so NOED doesn't feel like an out of left field whammy.
Something like 'The killer gets a speed boost for each dull totem end game and a reduction to swing speed' which NOED amplifies, so that the killer can machine gun people and generally win chases with if they spot you, and failing to unhook as survivor or camping as killer no longer negatively affects your emblem status' would ensure survivors sweat at end game rather than taking it as a victory lap to BM and teabag.
No more instant downs but at the same time your not going to 3 man rush to unhook anymore because the killer can attack fast enough to down you before you actually unhook. Gates being open no longer completely kills all threat of the killer. You can still trivially escape if you just walk out but now you really don't want to stick around.
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I saw an idea for NOED that if there is a remaining dull totem on the map it will become NOED, the exits will be blocked until that totem is cleansed and only survivors that cleansed totems before the last gen was completed will not be exposed. Biggest complaint is usually "I did 4 totems but my teammates did none, I was instadowned with NOED and they left me" - this would trap those teammates and prevent that person that did 4 totems from being instadowned, as well as encourage everyone to do the dull totems they see during the match. Also would free up perkslot so killer doesn't have to run NOED and Blood Warden.
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noed makes newer killers depend on it which will have a big impact on their performance without it. the nerf that i would give it is giving the survivors the exposed status effect notification as soon as the last generator gets done instead of requiring someone to get struck by noed
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I think it could use a rework so that it can't be abused with camping so easily but retain the strength of very important endgame perk.
Like for example work the same way No way out works that it would need to gather 4 stacks for some strong endgame effect be it permanent exposed on every survivor that got hooked or something completely different that is woth running for an endgame build.
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Yes and no. The effect isn't problematic itself. The problem lies in that a killer that is failing the entire match can get a potentially free kill once it's used, and so many bad killers use NOED. There's a difference between a killer potentially getting a 4k with NOED after getting 8 hooks VS a killer never winning a single chase, but get one person at the end because of NOED. I think the solution to this is adding a hook requirement to make NOED earnable so it's less of a second chance as much as a last push type of perk. Though maybe in that circumstance, it shouldn't be a hex. I dunno.
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I run small game and Inner Strength. I usually end up cleansing at least 2 totems per match. If another person does the same thing, and then on person does a random a totem, then thats all 5.
I'm happy if I can do 2 gens, 2 totems, 2 heals and 2 chases in a match. Thats usually enough to pip, or feel that you contributed to a match.
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The problem is that just ends up making it Devour in a slightly different form, that's only valid at end game. May as well run Devour instead.
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the problem isnt NOED, the problem is teammates ignoring it and then complaining about dying to it.
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NOED is a second chance perks and like most second chance perks (DH, Old Ds, UB, Adrenaline) I despise it. Worst thing is people who say "just do bones" as I have had several games where I did 4 totems and still killer turned a 0k into a 3k cause thney decided to use NOED
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NOED however is a good idea for a perk just excecuted awfully a reason for survivor to do dulls would be nice but maybe make it tied to a specific dull so you can do 4 and not get NOED in the ass
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It can reward bad killers, but can also punish gen rushing.
My view on it is that it should be reworked to reward the killer for playing well with a boost at the end rather than rewarding what is often a poor performance.
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Hex: NOKN
A Hex rooting on one question: Who knows Nova?
- You don't know who Nova is
- Nobody knows who Nova is
- Who's Nova?
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I think if you're stomping the killer enough to have 4 players left at endgame you usually have enough time to get all 5 totems. That said in solo queue its impossible to tell how many are remaining short of breaking all 5 yourself.
In a way I think this Undying nerf has retroactively made NOED stronger again. I wasn't a fan of old Undying, I thought 2-3 potential respawns of Ruin was carrying a lot of bad killers and making games less fun, that said it encouraged survivors to destroy any totems they see.
New Undying has made Dull totem a non threat again. I say non threat because as annoying as NOED can be as a survivor, it usually only leads to a single additional kill.
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NOED is weakest perk. I hope they will buff it
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It's a gigantic problem for survivors that can't run from the killer or do a 12 second exit gate, which is apparently a majority.
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Everyone be asking who is Nova, but nobody be asking how is Nova.
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How are you
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Not great, but better than I've been the past few days I suppose.
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Noed should be base then add a totem counter lol
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There's a difference between the 2. Devour is just instadown with a potential mori. NOED is instadown with a speedup, making loops less safe. They'd each have their place.
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Killers think noed is not a problem. I want a new surv perk. Everybody escape from death. 1 locker is marked with a red paint at the beginning of the match. At the end, if the killer hasn't touch this locker the survs increase 4% his speed and also the killer has to hit him 3 times to put him in the dying state. The killer wouldn't know this perk exists until he hits the surv. The effect persists until the killer touch the locker.
Totally fair: as killer say.. touch the locker and it's a wasted perk slot
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It's annoying in solos, especially if it's a killer who does not need it to do well
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NOED is not a problem. It's literally the most counterable perk in the game. It can be removed before it ever even works.
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Before we eviscerate NOED for being a pRoBlEmAtIc crutch perk, consider what the developers were going for.
NOED is entirely meant to be a crutch perk. It's supposed to help you get kills that you didn't deserve because you played badly. It's supposed to be the killer counterpart to No-one Left Behind (insert laughter), which is supposed to enhance your ability to coordinate late game saves, but come on, really?
So, we can give NOED points for staying true to its purpose. In fact, it may stay too true to its purpose. At the endgame, survivors are going to be concentrated at 2 locations, the gates. This immediately jacks up the power of NOED. I've pulled of 4-man slug endgames with NOED. I had 4 survivors left and I probably didn't deserve that 4k, but hey.
Which segways into the issue of perks like NOED in general. The entire premise of them is unfair, giving killers a bottle of steroids to help them tip the balance so they can get kills they didn't deserve. Imagine if survivors had a perk where you literally cannot die until all the generators are completed, to help baby survivors get wins they don't deserve. This is distinct from second chances; you have to work for it, and in return, it gives you another chance to do well. It gives you the opportunity and you must capitalize on it. That's why old DS was changed. Not only was it nigh uncountable, but it was quite literally a "no skill" perk. If the killer downed you, they probably earned it. The last change, being 60 seconds after being hooked, fixed this and made is to that it was countable and helped you in situations where the killer was playing in a very much unfair way (being tunneling, although you could still get DS'ed without tunneling). NOED takes that fundamentally unfair concept and jacks it up on steroids for something that's both unfair and menacingly powerful.
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NOED is the only true "crutch perk" that killers have. You can't really look at any other perk on the killer side and call it a crutch perk, except for maybe Corrupt (but if you call this crutch, you're dumb, ha). It's the only perk that just activates without earning it on the killer side. Everything else (Again, aside from Corrupt) has an earning requirement in order to get use. Hooks, tokens, hits, whatever.
Let's compare this to every single crutch on the survivor side (which is basically their whole meta). Almost all of them just exist without being earned, or are even a reward for failure.
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It's not so much a balance issue as it is a design issue. The perk is very swingy, it can have a massive impact, or it can just not pop up at all.
It'll be hard to solve, but a good step to mitigating it a little bit is to declare it when the fifth gen is completed, NOT when someone has already gone down.
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What do you need to activate tinkerer? Or ruin? Or Undying? Or haunted grounds? And there are many more
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For me it's not a problem I take my perk slot for small game instead some clutch perk and voila I save myself and rest of team of pain at endgame if survs don't focus too much on gens only or clutch perks maybe it wouldn't be problem
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Ruin/Undying require the killer to actively apply pressure to get any value, and they can only pressure one gen at a time. It doesn't chase survivors off the gen by itself. Haunted ground only works if survivors give that to the killer. That's their own fault. They knew the risks when destroying the totem.
Tinkerer is literally just a tracking perk. To get ANY value off of it, the killer has to drop whatever they are doing, and earn the value from it.
Get utterly destroyed.
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Noed isn't even a crutch perk since the killer only has 3 perks the entire game and could still not get use from noed. It's the same as adrenaline but nobody is gonna call that a crutch.
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That too. That's why I say, it's the "closest thing" to a crutch that they have.
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If adrenaline gave 4% speed buff during all the end game and you needed 3 hits to put someone in dying state you would see hundred of killer posts per day
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Adrenaline gives you a 150% speed buff for 5 seconds and fully heals you if you come off the hook. Again Noed could not even come into play if the killer has it and still you see complaints about it all the time. What point are you trying to make?
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yaaas. but the red paint doesn't show up until the end of the match, will appear on any locker the killer hasn't touched at that point, AND make some of the lockers well hidden so that the killer has to go out of their way to look for lockers instead of chasing and downing survivors. to keep it fair though add a "lock locker" interaction that makes the locker unusable by survivors and makes it visibly checked off
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I'd be happy to see something like this implemented. That would make totem a side objective that is actually worth doing for survivor regardless of what perk there is in the game and would make hex perk overall more fun to use for everyone.
NOED is ok as it is. If you have 4 survivor alive once all gen are done that mean you had time to do bones so potentially prevent NOED or with 4 survivor you can still find NOED at the end do some nice play and end up with every one leaving. The killer could also force open a gate giving you time pressure and then camp a survivor but at that point can't he just have his ######### kill?!
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everyone know this perk exist, every one know the killer COULD run it, everyone knows how to couter this perk, everyone knows if you rush you get punished with noed for it, everyone knows they gotta do bones 5 times per game to fully avoid this perk before the end game, this perk can be denied before it even show up, if survivors are too busy doing gen rush well they get punished for it, yes noed can reward killers doing badly but it also punish survivors gen rushing and not focusing on taking out noed in the first place, noed isn't a issue, survivors gen rushing complaining about it is the issue, do bones before rushing gens 🙄
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I don't mind it. I generally do totems whenever I see them, but if I don't I keep a mental note of where I saw one and go back and check it when the last gen pops. Doing that has stopped NOED from killing us all more than a few times. Sometimes I'll cleanse every totem in a match while doing totem challenges, it's not impossible to do.
I also like that it encourages me to bring maps or different perks instead of my usual. That just adds diversity to the insanely repetitive nature of this game which is desperately needed in my opinion.
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I definitely wouldn't call corrupt a "crutch" perk, it's just there to help you out regardless of if you play well or not.
Most of the survivor meta are either earned in some nuanced way, require the killer to do something bad, or have some sort of condition that scales with skill. Adrenaline, for instance, requires you to get 5 generators done. That's your reward for doing objectives. Exhaustion perks require decent positioning. Sprintburst won't help you learn how to loop, but it will help you if you're already a good looper. DS used to be like watered-down survivor NOED, but now it requires the killer to actively hard-tunnel a survivor off of the hook (and down and pick them up in 60 seconds, though). BT requires the killer to be in proximity to the hook, although double calm add-on doctor throws this out of the window. Mettle of Man is an absolute joke but you still have to work for it. All of these require some agency from the survivor's end. Adrenaline especially is incomparable to NOED; the survivor team is rewarded for getting all 5 generators done.
The other issue with NOED is that it's really not that necessary. It's meant for beginners to use, like a walker to help you get on your feet. But early ranks are already in the killer's favor. It's the higher ranks where it becomes evened out more, and you'll rarely need to use a beginner perk at that point. Might as well run Devour Hope instead.
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That's why I would say "maybe" you could call it one. Because it really has no "earning" requirement and just helps you by default. I don't actually think it's a crutch.
As for the survivor meta being earned, no. I disagree. Most of them just exist.
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I guess coup and fire up could count as being in the same camp as NOED.
happy late April fools
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Exhaustion perk don't need to get value out of them.
Sprint burst will give you distance a take away some precious time from the killer if the killer want to chase you.
DH give you short distance to make it to a pallet window and again make the killer lose lot of time.
If you can't get value out of lithe maybe you should stop running to the corner of the map, avoid pallet & windows.
As for balance landing you should have plenty of time in most chase to get to an elevated area and use it.
As for adrenaline, unless most survivor are playing hide & seek you should have it pop 4 out of 5 games.
Funny enough I quit playing for about half a year, come back with a brand new account & obviously no perk and got rank 1 playing 60%/40% Solo/SWF with yellow/green/purple rank for the most part and a good red rank from time to time.
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This perk has more counterplay than old DS and DH combined.
It's totally fine.
Only time there could be excuses of not being able to deal with it is when you're dealing with ultra try-hard spirit/nurse/blight, but even in that case you just leave/die while team leaves.
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That's not what I mean by you needing to get value out of them. In order to make exhaustion perks work, you have to already be a competent looper and in a favorable position. To make balanced landing work, you need to have an elevated area, and use it to get to a loop. Holding W with exhaustion perks won't extend the chase by long. To make lithe work, you need to find a window, if you're not already looping. To get the most out of sprint burst, you want to be sprinting to a loop, at which you must loop. To get the most out of DH, you must be near a loop or in position to DH to a window, so you can extend the loop. They augment your skill., instead of handing you a bushel of power and saying lol good luck with that. Adrenaline is the same situation. Finishing 5 generators takes work. It's adds to your winnings. NOED adds to your losings.
I can't ever break through the red ranks; I'm always stuck at the border of rank 4 and 5; the moment I'm at rank 5, I'm playing against literal infants. The moment I'm at rank 4, I'm playing against the CIA. But again, the only reason I even play survivor is so I can have romantic moments will Bills and Davids in the corner of the map.
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You running at 150% for 3s with an exhaustion perk. What ever you do with that you gain distance and make the killer lose at least 5sec in chase unless you're running in circle around him. If used properly you can make a killer lose more than 10s.
You don't need anything for sprint burst. For lithe you need a window OR a pallet, if you can't find either of them maybe you're really bad? Balance landing is a tad harder to trigger but still not hard to activate at least once in chase if you know what to look for. and DH, press E to gain distance, either bait a swing or make it to a pallet/window to make the killer loose a minimum of 5sec. If you run away from pallet/window while being chase then you, as a player, have a problem between the ears. So again I fail to see the validity of your arguments.
You don't need any particular skill to get some benefit out of those perk and by the time you unlock them you should know how to use them and over time you learn how those skill can make you waste more than 10s in a chase and that's huge if your team isn't wasting time.
While I've played in 4man swf and communication is a huge boost, having 2 or 3 team mate that get insta down if the killer have an insta down or get destroy by nurse/spirit or huntress still require me to carry them hard by doing 30s+ chase for every hook and doing 2 full gen on my own & more plus totems & heals.
As a survivor you should consider a victory an escape. If you do 2 gen, 2 heals 2 totem 2 decent chase or more you can consider that a victory even if you die. You are not meant to survive all game and by design it's totally normal, even if you carry hard and you skill is above the killer's skill that you die from time to time.
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Literally a perk that works for 10% of the game..
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You do not have to be a competent looper to Dead Hard for distance to a window. If you're running dead hard, it's because you're trash at looping.
What you're basically saying is akin to someone saying "Only competent bicyclists can make training wheels work". No. Just no.
A looper who doesn't use exhaustion is *the better player*. Period.
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NOED is a pretty big problem. It's BS "counterplay" is stronger than the perk itself for numerous reasons, and that's even assuming the killer has the perk, and on top of that the killer does nothing to earn it and can freely down and facecamp someone for a guaranteed and completely unearned kill.
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Dead hard. Enough said.
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The killer plays with only 3 perks until noed actives, if it activates. Cleansing totems isn't hard, either do 5 before endgame or only 1 during endgame.
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