Survivors aren't allowed to have good perks any longer. We're just here for 4k power fantasies.
I personally think survivor game play is the trashiest and most boring that it ever has been since the start of the game. We have no good perks for the game that change the way we play. The only thing that changes the pace of the game is the killer that we face. If you look at the current perks, they are just a bunch of trash tier aura perks that only last a few seconds and truly do nothing to boost survival. Dead hard is the only true perk that has some fun left in to use, and it doesn't even work 80 percent of the time due to hit boxes and lag.
This last perk is one of the final perks that is constantly being cried about over and over again by the killer-mains which only goal in the game is to 4k for their power fantasy - so they can feel like they actually accomplished something. It's unfortunate that the devs have just completely destroyed survival gameplay over the last 2 years. Playing killer is no longer skill based, you'd have to be brain dead to not reliably 3k every single game. Not based on any type of skill, but just because most of the means of survival for survivors has been gutted and made trash. Also, the amount of aura reading perks that give your exact location to killer, have even been over buffed and are too plentiful. Tracking is no longer a thing in this game. You just hook someone and then look for Auras with BBQ and chili. I know, I know "I only use BBQ and Chili for the double points". Great! Then you should have no problem getting rid of the wall hacks.
The most egregious of everything that has happened to survivor gameplay over the last few years has been the edition of tank like movements. If you give me tank movement, you better give me a freaking gun. The devs nerfed the flow of movement tremendously a few patches ago and then just made it a little bit less terrible, but movement is still absolutely terrible in game.
I just wonder how much more the devs are willing to trash their game for 4k power fantasies. As of now, survivor gameplay is in the trash and any type of change of gameplay is completely reliant on the killer you are playing against.
Comments
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I think the best survivor perks are actually very good and some were definitely too much like old DS. As a survivor main at this point I don't think the good perks are weak.
One thing I kind of do want is the meta to be shaken up a little bit. It gets a tad boring running BT, Dead Hard, Iron Will, etc. I want a new perk to really change up the style a bit which happens to killer somewhat often.
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Maybe you just suck as survivor?
Most survivors I face seem to enjoy teabagging and flicking their flashlights a helluva lot, mainly in the exit gates.
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Play killer. Killers mostly have perks that you have to actually earn, instead of survivor's passives. See how you like going against trash survivor perks...
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Uh, yeah, survivor gameplay has always been dependant on what killer you are going against. The only constant was that you could deck yourself out with second chances and abuse the crap out of them.
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Hmmm, cannot tell if this is bait or not yet.
Will observe and likely laugh.
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Bro get a grip. Try playing killer
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Well I would make the inverse argument - that you are just a trash killer. Since the majority of killers had a greater than 68 percent kill rate at the red ranks, TEN NERF PATCHES AGO. The game is heavily killer sided just based on statistics. I would love for them to release the current statistics of kill rates now, after the huge movement nerf and the continuation of making survivor gameplay just be a 4k power fantasy.
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If you go to the main menu of Dead By Daylight, you'll see there's an option called "Play As Killer". I really think you should give it a try!
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This is the classic. "Can't tell if someone actually thinks the 100's of nerfs to survivor actually made the gameplay trashy to play as survivor". That's been the state of this forum for the last 2 years now. It's why survivor gameplay is in the toilet. Because you can't have a differing opinion than "HUrr durr survivors are rullly bud. Killur underpuwered. Moost NURF SURVIVOR MOAR". It's an echo chamber. This forum doesn't live in stat based reality. It lives in the realm of 4k at any cost.
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I'm not a red rank killer.
I'm always put with red rank survivors though, because matchmaking is #########, and the game is incredibly survivor sided.
That's why 90% of the player base play survivor, and survivor queues are so long, because nobody plays killer.
Maybe you should try playing killer, so that you can get a perspective of both aspects of the game.
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You must be really bad at survivor since you think they're weak. Survivors that know what they're doing and how to properly work together are the power role in this game. Survivor perks are more powerful than most killer perks, and even the strongest killer perks can be disabled by just cleansing totems.
You complain about killers crying about DS, what about all the survivors crying about Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, BBQ, NOED, Tunneling and Camping. Fact of the matter is that both sides equally complain about things. It's not just isolated to one side, and you believing it to be one sided shows you don't play killer and have no idea how it is more difficult than playing survivor.
Everything that happened to survivor needed to happen. If it didn't the game would have died several years ago from the lack of killers. Survivor game play hasn't changed much. Maps are still designed to give the survivors every advantage in a chase. 3 gens can pop before the killer gets one hook. You still have perks to help speed up gen repairs along with tool boxes, which are still very useful if you're honest.
Also, killers had their fair share of nerfs. Ruin, Pop, Undying, Hillybilly, Nurse, Spirit (who will probably get another nerf with all the complaints), Freddy who is on the chopping block, and plenty more.
The game in the current state is the most balanced it's ever been.
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What a silly thing to say.
You accuse me of things you have little to no proof for.
The stats you hold in such high esteem are deeply flawed. Did you ever consider that? Judging by your reliance on them, I don't think so.
Survivors have some issues that need addressing still, some things that are overpowered, others that need buffing. They are in a much much more balanced spot than they were two years ago.
Killers also have some things that need nerfs (lookin at you Iri Head) but generally, most Killers need buffs.
What the game really needs is for Solo Q Survivors to be buffed to SWF levels, and then for Killers to be buffed accordingly.
Until that happens, you will have a dichotomy of Killers doing okay to well against Solo Q Survivors, but then being absolutely demolished by even casual SWF. That's how big of a power gap there is between the three groups.
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"I just wonder how much more the devs are willing to trash their game for 4k power fantasies."
Bro have you seen the Trickster? Cause 4k was definitely not on their minds or at least I hope to gawd not.
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Based on what statistics are survivor the "power role" in this game? Which factually evidence do you have to back up your argument? I'm going by statistics they released that show the game is killer sided. I don't know how you can look at a 68 percent kill rate at red ranks and say "the game is survivor sided". That's not based in reality.
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Their statistics reveal that Nurse is in dire need of buffs. Does she need to be buffed? Answer honestly.
They only reason killers have a high kill rate is due to the fact that most survivors, including myself, are terrible at the game. Players being bad at the game is no reason to dumb it down. The developers have even stated not to try to make too much out of the statistics that they released.
You're just bad at the game. Thank God you're not a developer, otherwise the game would be dead.
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I recently looked back at all of the patch notes over the past 2 years.
Every single patch came with some kind of killer nerf, whether it was a killer-wide nerf like Mori's or Undying recently, or killer specific nerfs.
Not one patch, other than this one with the DS nerf, came with a significant survivor nerf. Not. One.
There were a couple situations where a perk had a minor tweak to it's values, but nothing that comes anywhere close to the Mori or Undying nerfs.
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I'm consitently rank 1 survivor. PM me and add me on steam. We'll just do 1v1 killer survivor game.
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Poor bait tbh. Try better next time.
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As I told you, I am terrible at the game, so no need to PM you. If you're as good as you claim you are, you probably rely too much on your second chance perks and are so used to being in control of chases that you just don't want to face strong killers. Don't worry though, with the Devs track record, you won't face many of them.
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There's still many maps good for survivor however that can often tip the balance.
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If you disagree please prove me wrong. The patch notes are all available to see.
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Yeah teabagging and flashlights are some of the best perks in the game ...............................
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"Just based on statistics" that just proves what the other comment said, Ok according to statistics let's make nurse broken again since her stats are the worse in the game according to stats.
Bbq "wallhacks" on 40 meters away, so broken damn!!.
Constant rank 1 survivor, who isn't these days? I'm a killer main and also are a rank 1 survivor constantly, I guess I'm pretty skillful since you think that is a great accomplishment.
I think you are just baiting for the fun of it since most survivor are not the greatest players out there, some are but from my experience most rank 1s are not.
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What those statistics never showed was how many survivors were just giving up on first hook and killing themselves, getting 2nd hooked and killing themselves each one off them counted as a kill even though the killer never actually killed them the survivor killed themselves. Unless you have statistics that show how the kills were counted we would all love to see that otherwise you can't go off the statistics for this game as stuff like that is counted as kills.
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Remember when Undying came out and instead of people switching to totem perks, they still clinged onto the old meta? It just seems to me that the only way to make people want to use different perks is to nerf the popular ones. But that's not exactly fun either so it's kinda tough
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"Second chance perks" are pure pseudo-intellectualism. There are perks that increase the chance for survival or extend the chase. Are you saying that survivors aren't allowed to have any perks that benefit them in any way? Are killers the only role that are allowed to have any perks that impact the chase? It's interesting since there truly are no second chance perks in survivor kit. Dead hard is easily baitable except when you use it as an opportunity to get a pallet during chase.
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Lol
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Slowly but surely, this game has taken away all aspects of any mechanic that has been OP or incredibly survivor sided.
Now that it's more fair for both sides and survivors have been nerfed from OP/easy mode to balanced/need skill people are crying.
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Solo-q is worst thing on DbD and updates are not makes it better. Actually worse. That is why killers looking for solo lobies and escapes from SWF lobies.
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That is possible on killer since perks are constantly nerfed on their side - there's room for new perks to do something good, and there's also crazy synergies people can come up with.
The mentioned survivor perks are so strong that you can't really make new perks which are even stronger (power creep on the power role is too much) so you can't shift the meta. At the same time, its hard to need survivor perks because that's like 4/5 of the player base and they get pretty angry if nerfed. So you can't easily nerf the op perks, but you also can't make perks which are even more op... So survivor meta is essentially the same today as it was two years ago.
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I don’t think nerfs made Survivor gameplay boring, I just think that people aren’t willing to step out of their comfort zone and try new builds. Some people are too dependent on their offensive builds against Killer (DS, DH, UB, SB, etc) they refuse to even try the other perks that do make the game more exciting. If you want a list of perks I find pretty fun to use, let me know.
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Okay I’ll prove you wrong.
A gen takes 80 seconds with no great skill checks, no toolboxes, no perks and a single survivor.
That means that if you find and chase a survivor for 30 seconds from the start of the match (and that means you’re a good killer if you down someone in 30 seconds) you lose three gens. You then turn around and chase another survivor for another 30-40 seconds+the time to get to a hook, hook him and reach the nearest gen, and you have lost another one. You then repeat another time. 5 gens are done and you have three hooks, if you tunneled that’s a 1K, otherwise it’s nothing. It’s simple numbers.
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Buff survivors to SWF level (Voice, show auras) and buff all killers to A and S-Tier. Problem is SWF is so strong against killers. And killers is stronger than solo survivors. Game is not balanced for that.
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Are we playing the same game, buddy? I feel like we're not playing the same video game here.
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This dude really hitting us with the "1v1 me bro".
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No, never. I never intend a 4k, most of the time I don't even let it happen.
You actually don't have to full kill ANYONE in order to rank up too; as long as survivors don't do gens at the speed of light - you can get relentless.
Either way in my opinion playing Trickster is the same as playing Clown; you're really just there to have a good time.
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This game is not a 1v1 and you need to quit and play something else if you think it is or should be.
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Pallet vacuums removed, exhaustion no longer decreases while running, multiple DS nerfs, added medium vaults, Brand New Part nerfed, toolboxes nerfed, flashlights nerfed, Mettle of Man nerfed, loops nerfed, many windows closed up, healing times increased, hatch can be closed, End Game Collapse, etc, etc.
Many of these changes were completely necessary, just as many killer nerfs were.
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Uh oh. You've upset the hive mind.
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Agreed.
I understand the game is killer sided, fine whatever but then the constant nerfing of survivors on top of that doesn't make any sense.
I also play killer and a 4k/3k is beyond easy, the second i feel like am going to lose i will just tunnel one survivor and their game will fall apart.
I have been badly beaten by red rank SWF's like 3,4 times but those have been rare exceptions to me getting a 4k.
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I would argue that the stats show that Nurse, Blight and Plague are the only killers that are properly balanced. Which is to say that they're the only killers that actually reward skill with kills. There's no doubt that Nurse, Blight and Plague are strong, but if a killer is dominating with those killers they deserve the win. It means nothing to dominate with Freddy, Doctor, or Leatherface. And that's 100 percent the problem with this game, the killers are too easy to use. We need more killers like Nurse, Blight, and Plague that actually reward skill. And a side effect would mean more survivor escapes at lower ranks and more survivor deaths at higher ranks vs SWFs.
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If that's true why do the majority of players mostly play survivor and the amount of killers has been declining.
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because people like to play with their friends. And killer is honestly more complicated. More complicated is not the same as harder. Playing killer is easier to win than survivor, the stats make that clear, but there's more to playing killer than survivor.
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I only play solo survivor and I still find that much more enjoyable than playing killer. If killer was so easy way more people would be playing and I wouldn't have to wait 10 mins to get a match as survivor.
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Playing killer is a single player game. Think about that for 10 seconds. How many single player games can you think of on Steam, tons right. How many games can you play with your friends. Not many, right. That's the allure of playing survivor. But what's the allure of playing killer? It has nothing to do with how easy or hard killer is, it has everything to do with the fact that humans are social and half of this game is not.
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I've been playing this game for 4 years and only play solo so I don't need to think about it all thank you. I'll just go off the facts that the majority of players enjoy survivor more and more than half are solos.
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Bruh this game is literally easy to play as a survivor but as killer, devs made a good move on the ds nerf bc it was so boring and dumb playing killer which was cause every swfs I went against all had ds, bt,dh,and adrenaline which made me want to give up on it completely, and literally it's always the killers fault when something happens, like I got called a camper when I was play pyramid head even tho I can't see cage auras and cages relocate when I'm near them for too long, if you think about it every killer main had to go through slot of nerfs on perks yet really didn't complain about it which when the devs finally nerf a strong and popular perk for survivor almost every survivor main blames and attack the devs, To be fair I'm just speaking my mind and I love playing both survivor and killer which if a killer gets a 4k, good for them, if all the survivors escape, good for them, but the one thing I hate is when players get too cockey in rub a win in other players is face.
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The reason I play killer, and even got DBD in the first place, was because I was a big slasher fan and it seemed really cool to be able to be the bad guy like one of these movies. The higher my rank got, though, the less I felt like a terrifying force of nature and more panicking around the map trying to keep track of survivors and monitor gens and crap like a madman.
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This is actually a post I made yesterday for someone else, but I'm pretty damn sure I could've just copy/pasted this here without ever mentioning it and no one could tell the difference. It's 100% just as fitting a rebuttal to your posting in this thread, where you've followed the same pattern of points and logic (combined with every logical misstep along the way).
[The only thing I might've done differently here is challenge you more directly about the absurdity of taking any hard stances on balance since you're far more adamant about only experiencing half of this game. I don't get how anyone could ever trust their own perspective when so totally dependent on their own biases filling in literally half the picture.]
For the record, I'm breaking up my posts into chapters these days
I: Of Flat Rate Morgue-ages
The kill rates will always be that high--especially in the red ranks--because if they weren't that high killers wouldn't pip up in the first place... meaning players with lower stats wouldn't be in the higher ranks to ever be counted in that data. This leaves us with--you guessed it--the exact same kill rates.
You need 3Ks to pip as a red rank killer (and that's still not guaranteed). As a survivor, you don't even need to survive. Hell, you can pip from an AFK killer.
That whole "50% survival rate!!" is literally impossible to maintain according to the game's own scoring demands. Or it's at least impossible without counting on low ranks to absorb non-stop 4-man escapes enough to compensate for the kills required to reach/maintain higher ranks--but you certainly can't expect many new killers would stick around for long in those conditions. Then again--maybe that's exactly what the devs expect of new players, and the source of many problems...
Just don't pretend the survival rates reflect the game's balance. Don't pretend that solo players can't (and don't) stomp killers if they're competent at generator efficiency. Don't pretend that team wipeout stats aren't boosted by total potatoes, quitters, and SWFs dicking around (especially given that most quickly realize how simply escaping becomes incredibly boring and easy when you're already stacking the deck with the cheating-level advantage of voice-coms)
II: Like A "Who Done It?" Without The Who
If you want a metric that really suggests this game's primary imbalance & target for adjustment, try considering the actual player rates for both game modes. You'll discover largely that... NOBODY ######### WANTS TO PLAY KILLER!
It only takes one killer player for every four survivors already. Were the modes equally popular/balanced/fun, we can infer that killer queues should run roughly 4x as long. But they aren't even equal to survivor queues. They're roughly 4x faster. Obviously side influences affect player rates too, but the raw extent of that gap is the damning implication that cannot be ignored.
In DBD, we've got one mode that's a lot more fun, besting, and where "losing" can still be "winning." We've got another mode that's a lot more tense, belittling, and where "winning" can still be "losing." Hell, consider how many people would never touch killer at all if not for dailies & tomes (which I suspect might includes you here too).
III: Being Mindful Of Hives
Also, because I've seen a lot of "killer hivemind!" silliness in this thread, I'll say this: there's always a persecution complex when you're heavily distorted by the inverse of whatever bias you perceive. Any opinions expressed by one of "them" constitutes the whole voice of "the others!", so it's always an institution united in some overwhelming (naturally hypocritical) push for dominance rather than ever recognizing the multitude of individual--even contradictory--POVs out there. "Persecution" and "bias" aren't arguments in and of themselves; weaponizing them as such is just a convenient means to dismiss logic you might otherwise recognize if you actually engaged.
If you find that forum suggestions here lean towards improving the killer gameplay experience, that's not exactly some big "killer mains secretly run these forums, & the media, & international banking!!!" conspiracy. People here predominantly play both halves of this game, and each voices the problems & potential solutions as they perceive them. And they even don't agree on which aspects are which there. As it happens though, the general shared sentiment (something is rotten in the killer fields) only reflects what we're seeing expressed by player rates & preferences here already.
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Someone's angry that survivor is getting balanced.
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